invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Mrcento]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

I have just gotten so fed up/pissed off with the general berating and piss-taking that I keep getting that I lost my rag

The majority of it isn't that (A little from a couple of posters can be taken that way at time, so i understand frustrations from that), though. In general, It's well meant advice that is against your dream car that you just don't want to hear, which is very different.

I don't think there are too many people saying 'OMG you should not have an Invacar at all', it's more people trying to say there are better options for a daily and a model 70 for a hobby car? Sure, why not, but as your only transport?, That's going to cause you more issues than it solves and something more modern probably won't. Your dream could well end up a nightmare and at very least another option now to get on the road and have as a fallback isn't a bad call.

Easy to say 'Ah but Dollywobbler drives his plenty'....yeah, if you only look at the bit you want to see. Have we missed the part that TWK is parked up for months at a time, he has about 5 other cars at all times to use and the constant maintenance 50 year old cars/designs need?, Even looking at Elly and his GSA as a representative of a regularly used daily of age... How often does he have issues with electric, ignition parts, things like kingpins needing greased, chasing leaks, brakes needing adjusted etc?, He can take the front end off the Citroens in a barn and crawl under a car to do it and at least get it going to somewhere more serious repairs can take place on a lift etc, it's not bad advice given your issues to say you physically can't maintain a car like that so will be more reliant on finding people who can. I know that's going to come across as harsh and you want to show that's wrong, and if you do, i genuinely hope you do, but it doesn't mean the concerns aired for you are not well meant or valid.

[Mr Pastry]

8 minutes ago, Snake Charmer said:

There's a solution, usually comes down to financial viability. I see some eye-watering prices for parts and engineering services on older vehicles, some justifiable due to the cost of producing small batchess and other just plain greed.

Yes I think the costs are usually justifiable though, and many enthusiasts don't understand the difficulties involved in reproducing mass-production parts on a small scale.   So you design and make this stuff and just about cover your costs, and they say it's too expensive, or not as good as the original.

There's another side to it as well.  Some  enthusiasts aren't truly happy unless their car is broken.  If it's not broken then they will find a way of breaking it.  And if it is broken already they will find ways of not being able to mend it.  So they'd rather whinge about not being able to get (for example) kingpins, instead of doing something about it.   I'd make all those kingpin bits from scratch if I needed them myself, but CBA doing it for anyone else.

[dean36014]

You also have to remember the people who are using invacars regularly on the road are able bodied, whereas you are disabled.

[SmokinWaffle]

Also one thing that is really worth considering long and hard - how much do you value your ongoing health or life, or your loved ones? 

If someone hits you while you are in REV at anything above 15MPH - it could be very serious or fatal. Please do keep that in mind. 

I'm sure that driving REV daily, even if it goes faultlessly - will not be worth the trade off when your loved ones have to see you pulled out of it into a body bag. Life is too precious to fuck about like that. 

[RayMK]

I've tried to stay out of this well meaning but somewhat suffocating bout of mothering instinct being displayed in this thread.  @LightBulbFun is young and has found something which fills him with enthusiasm.  It has fuelled his determination to buy REV and driven him hard enough to pass his driving test despite financial, physical and mental considerations that many of us will not have experienced.  He is certainly not daft and is fully aware of the risks which exist in following his dream.  Advice is fine but it is the recipient's decision on whether or not to accept it.  It is not compulsory to ditch your dream just because advice wants to steer you towards safety, boredom and practicality.  These things are forced upon us as we get older.  Give the chap a break and let him follow his dream.  He may choose to adjust his priorities in due course.   

There are people on here who ride motorcycles, race cars, drive old bangers and, heaven forbid, regularly ride pushbikes, apparently with none of the concerns applicable to driving an Invacar.

When at LBF's age or thereabouts, I went against my parents by secretly saving up to buy a moped.  Dangerous things!  Having survived that for a couple of years and many many miles I bought a 175cc motorcycle - and had an accident on it within 6 weeks.  I survived with bruising and concussion - I was almost black down my right side.  So yes, some of the advice did bite back.  Motorcycles can be dangerous.  I then bought a Reliant.  Horror!  More outpouring of advice.....you get the drift.  We learn but do not necessarily regret.  I still own a Reliant.  I'm now old and walk with two sticks.  It sometimes has a breakdown.  Family wants me to sell it and drift towards my grave safely in a tedious modern thing.  I won't.  I'll concede that I do use the modern more often though - but it is my choice.

These words are of course my opinion and are not intended to offend or suggest that other opinions are invalid.  Enjoy your freedoms.

 

[BorniteIdentity]

My view (on the basis that it’s a discussion forum) ?

If you want to run about London and the rest of Europe in such an absurd contraption, then go for it.  I’d have an easier job convincing my neighbours that I’m also a lesbian than DEZ to drive something sensible. 

But, it’s completely on DEZ to do it. It’s your car to repair, yours to source spares for, yours to maintain. You will need to build a perfect relationship with a garage and you’ll need to be patient. The skills needed here are in infinitely small supply; when you find someone good you need to treat them like your own mother. Nurture that relationship, and you’ll be good. That means, in my experience, popping in with biscuits - tipping generously - thanking them profusely - sending a Christmas card and not chasing unless it’s critical.  The guy welding my Mini has had it a year and not started; but it’ll come back beautiful and not cost a lot. He is an absolutely vital part of my “old shit eco-system”.  In summary, I need him and he absolutely doesn’t need me. In fact, he could do without shitty jobs like this and concentrate on easy insurance work and be just as wealthy and i dare say happier!

Nothing would make me smile more than this old thing skipping through the tulips of Amsterdam. But it’s time to take 100% responsibility and ownership of it. 

And be patient. I still think you’re a year away from this being a viable, road-going concern. 
 

 

[Split_Pin]

Absolutely follow your dreams, like anyone else, why not. 

I can see from reports that it needs a lot of work.

Just pay a normal transport company to get it back, how hard can that possibly be?

Find the parts you need, new or unused ones, like anyone else.

Then find a normal garage willing to do the work and pay them to do it, like anyone else.

I bought an old Cavalier for £150. Besides what I was able to do myself, it needed about £700 of additional work to make it right so I paid someone to do it, I enjoyed it for a while, sold it and it's still alive somewhere.

This is the only way this will work. 

[wuvvum]

I think your relationship with REV is not unlike my relationship with my Renault 6.  I had been searching for one for years, and when mine came up on eBay I decided I was going to have it no matter what - I even got into a bidding war with Pogweasel on it.  When I collected it and got it home I was happier than a pig in shit - I'd finally realised my dream.  I've had that car over 16 years now, done thousands of miles in it, and I know it inside out.  I even got to the FOD in it once, via the FOTU.  Apart from flat batteries it's only had one proper FTP, due to a snapped fan belt (and even then it got me home, albeit with steam coming from under the bonnet).  

I will never sell it, unless I am literally dying of starvation.  But would I use it as my only transport, driving it all over the country in all seasons and all weathers?  Would I fuck as like.  I can see you've used the "back in the day" argument a couple of times, and I could say the same thing - back in the mid '80s my dad thought nothing of packing the four of us plus luggage into our R6 and heading down to our holiday house in central France, Cléon howling away all the way down the autoroute.  Now that my 6 is over 50 years old, I wouldn't even contemplate attempting the same journey in it, and I'm far less sensible than my dad was.  It's not just the fact that 50-year-old components are often unhappy at being thrashed for hours at a time, it's the fact that roads are a very different place now.  There is much more traffic, drivers are much more aggressive / distracted / both, and the average car is much faster, much bigger, much heavier and stops much quicker than was the case when Renault 6s and Invacars were in common daily use.

Of course it could be that you don't actually want reliable, safe daily transport.  It could be that you just want REV as your only vehicle, and you're prepared to put up with the fact that it'll need constant fettling and won't be suitable for anything like the regular long-distance runs that you'd be able to do in a Kangoo or similar.  If that's the case, please say so and we'll STFU about trying to get you to buy something else.  You live in central London after all, where a car is really not essential.  We're only chipping in because you've made noises about wanting both reliable transport and something to keep a mobility scooter in, but if you've come to the conclusion you don't actually want that then that's your decision and that's fine.

[egg]

1 hour ago, BorniteIdentity said:

when you find someone good you need to treat them like your own mother. Nurture that relationship, and you’ll be good.

Yes, have to agree with this, I have found a guy who picks up cars from my front door, always when he says he will, gets the work done and brings it back with no moans at all (even with the Mondeo which fights a bit). He gets a tip most times and if I ask him to look at something and he turns his nose up, I say 'no worries' because I don't want to piss him off. LBF really needs to find the Hackney version of this kind of bloke regardless of vehicle.

I known 3-4 people like that over the years, including a chap who was a mechanic for a hearse fleet that did little jobs on the side.

[plasticvandan]

I was a bit like Dez when I first started driving,completely obsessed with Reliants,which I had been since a toddler.This culminated in the years between 17 and my late 20s owning 27 of them.i had skills,facilities,contacts and the spares to keep them running,and it was a constant stress and constant work.a crash in my last one ended my reliant love affair,i was lucky to get out.

I suspect the fact that dez has sat typing for the last 2 years with no transport answers the question of whether he wants or needs everyday transport.

Even if he gets it back in a roadworthy state it's only a matter of time before something else knocks it out of action,and that would need planning for.

[chadders]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Yes, have to agree with this, I have found a guy who picks up cars from my front door, always when he says he will, gets the work done and brings it back with no moans at all (even with the Mondeo which fights a bit). He gets a tip most times and if I ask him to look at something and he turns his nose up, I say 'no worries' because I don't want to piss him off. LBF really needs to find the Hackney version of this kind of bloke regardless of vehicle.

I known 3-4 people like that over the years, including a chap who was a mechanic for a hearse fleet that did little jobs on the side.

The guy who works on my camper is like this.

I never really know exactly when I'll get it back but I've other cars so it takes as long as it takes. He's now mainly closed his business down so only does work for myself and a few others, I like to think it's because I treat him more like a friend than a mechanic and he knows that as soon as he sends his bill I'll pay it.

[Dick Longbridge]

I can see both sides of the issue. 

Dez, like many of us, specifically wanted a certain type of car and had to wait some time before the right one with the right price came along . Then came the excitement of trying it out and just enjoying finally owning it.

Then reality kicked in and the search for someone with the required skillset to get it roadworthy began. I'd say the events with Adam were unfortunate; on paper he seemed the right guy for the job owing to his previous work on his own and his seemingly detailed understanding of them. I don't think anyone could have foreseen the car coming away from there unfinished. 

Moving forwards, it was a noble gesture of red5 to take the car on in between his day job responsibilities. Two years ago, I guess Dez wasn't in a particular rush to get the car on the road, didn't urgently need a daily driver and was prepared to wait for a few months for repairs to happen. Not knowing the full story, obviously weeks have become months and then years, with no obvious end date for the car to be ready in sight. Is it months away from hitting the road? A couple more years? Without two way communication, the guessing game will continue, frustrations will continue to grow and advice from middle-aged blokes on the internet will keep filling up this thread whilst piss-taking from some will continue relentlessly elsewhere. 

If Dez had a day job which required a reliable daily driver, I'd say buy a £2k modern and let the guessing game with the blue one continue. 

However, Dez's current circumstances don't align with the above, so a blue three wheeler as the sole pottering wagon doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

I'm sure most would also agree that opinions on whether you should or shouldn't drive it as your sole transport are absolute pish until you've given your chosen motor a decent regular testing over weeks and months. Until then, you're never going to know whether it suits you or not, regardless of what others say. 

Dez is a young, polite chap, who's clearly frustrated and probably fed-up of being told what he should or shouldn't do. Yes, I'm aware I'm adding myself to that list.

I've tried to keep quiet for as long as possible on the matter, but just want to share one piece of advice based on personal experience. 

If you want something in life, you need to go out there and get it. Don't ever sit back, wait and assume it'll come to you. 95% of the time it won't. I'd apply the same logic to the car - if you want it back on the road and the frustrations are growing (which it sounds like they are), rather than continue to go around in circles, pay red5 the bill and contact one of  the specialists Plasticdanthemanwithavan mentioned. Explain that you need the car roadworthy asap and that would like a rough timescale and costing in writing. They should, in theory, be able to give you a minimum figure on costs and timescale. Most renovations are based on this sort of ongoing discussion between customer and garage. Without it, things are never going to end well. 

Only then can you finally look forward to closure on the whole affair and start driving after a 2+ year hiatus. Until then, nothing's going to change. 

 

 

 

[Dobloseven]

Realistically is keeping any 50 year old vehicle on the road as your only transport going to be feasible?Does anyone actually do it?Yes I know there's lots of old cars on the road,but I'll bet their owners have access to other cars,quite possibly equally old as well.As for "specialists",see also Bfgs threads,most recently his expensive heater "rebuild",for his Daimler/Jaguar,a car seemingly well served for spares and repairs!I honestly think if REV had never left the FoD,and Dez was able to travel up and down easily to fettle her with lots of help, she'd probably be bumbling round at least the lanes of Buckinghamshire now.Just my tenpennorth and as I say,if there's anything I can do,make,fetch etc,more than happy to help.

[BorniteIdentity]

7 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

to fettle her

*It. 

Who knows. It’s all guess work isn’t it. Reading what Red5 has already done; I’d say the work that he did has stopped Dez from barbecuing himself in a plastic sauce. Whether that time and knowledge was available at a field with no mains electricity ? Who knows. 

[R Lutz]

22 hours ago, Sheefag said:

Just my opinion but rather like an old FX4, an Invacar isn't transport, it's a hobby and should be approached as such.

I'm astonished that a forum as politically correct, nay, as woke as this one even tolerates the veneration of something which singled out for ridicule the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.  Do people have short memories or are they choosing to ignore history? I won't repeat what they were colloquially known as for fear of Ian Seabrook having another melt down like he did in a Press Office once he was confronted with the reality, but come-on. These cars are not innocuous and cute transportation providers like say an Austin 7, they were state sponsored genocide. 

[red5]

As pm'd to Dez.

It has an actual functional (new) throttle and choke.

It has a partially unseized distributor. I'm reluctant to attempt to remove it in case it breaks..

It's appropriately tuned.

It starts as it should.

The braking system functions correctly, fluid was changed and cylinders filed to function on floating backplate. 

It stops, as well as they can. 

The throttle cables routing now should be ok and not likely to stick on (saved by previous  hugely sticking brake system I suspect).

The lethal fuel pump and pipework is mostly (as much as it can be) removed and restored to original fuel pump (mechanical).

I have emptied the engine cowl as much as possible of the nuts? that were blocking fins.

The Heinz 57 carb now functions and doesn't leak. It also has working accelerator pump.

I will check it starts as per Monday.

I will check front wheel bearing/kingpin play.

I will refit rest of throttle assembly and attempt to repair the slightly butchered column switch assembly (I suspect it has been switched sides or off another vehicle).

I will (correctly) refit ignition barrel after checking wiring repair still functions.

[Dobloseven]

13 minutes ago, R Lutz said:

I'm astonished that a forum as politically correct, nay, as woke as this one even tolerates the veneration of something which singled out for ridicule the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in society.  Do people have short memories or are they choosing to ignore history? I won't repeat what they were colloquially known as for fear of Ian Seabrook having another melt down like he did in a Press Office once he was confronted with the reality, but come-on. These cars are not innocuous and cute transportation providers like say an Austin 7, they were state sponsored genocide. 

Fact is back in the day,the state sponsored death wagons were very clever piece of design that enabled disabled folk to get out and lead something of a normal life.Features like the sliding doors and seats enabled wheelchair users to get in and out independently.Once seated,or even standing in some cases,the control system was almost infinitely adaptable to the point they could be driven by someone with just the use of one hand.The alternative wouldn't be an adapted automatic hatchback, it'd be stopping at home staring out the window.Even today,there's a lad at the end of our road who was a promising Rugby player with a major team.A few years back,he crashed his car into a tree leaving him paralysed from the waist down.He's able to live something of a normal life,living in an adapted ground floor area at his grandma's.He drives a BMW coupe, obviously automatic,with hand controls.But getting in and out independently is a right kerfuffle.He has to open the door,get his wheelchair alongside,get his arse down into the driver's seat,get his legs tucked in etc.And then, obviously as a sportsman,he has a lot of upper body strength,he has to fold up the wheelchair and hoist it over onto the passenger seat.Christ knows what state the interior of the car is in,I see he uses a blanket to protect the centre console.Now tell me he wouldn't find all that easier with something with sliding doors and seats with room to put his wheelchair alongside him.I'm old enough to remember when there were lots of people who had lost large bits of themselves fighting for King and country and were keen to have some sort of life back and the Invacars were everywhere.So let's not belittle the little blue cars too much.For many they were lifegivers.

[chadders]

14 minutes ago, red5 said:

As pm'd to Dez.

It has an actual functional (new) throttle and choke.

It has a partially unseized distributor. I'm reluctant to attempt to remove it in case it breaks..

It's appropriately tuned.

It starts as it should.

The braking system functions correctly, fluid was changed and cylinders filed to function on floating backplate. 

It stops, as well as they can. 

The throttle cables routing now should be ok and not likely to stick on (saved by previous  hugely sticking brake system I suspect).

The lethal fuel pump and pipework is mostly (as much as it can be) removed and restored to original fuel pump (mechanical).

I have emptied the engine cowl as much as possible of the nuts? that were blocking fins.

The Heinz 57 carb now functions and doesn't leak. It also has working accelerator pump.

I will check it starts as per Monday.

I will check front wheel bearing/kingpin play.

I will refit rest of throttle assembly and attempt to repair the slightly butchered column switch assembly (I suspect it has been switched sides or off another vehicle).

I will (correctly) refit ignition barrel after checking wiring repair still functions.

That sounds like a hell of a lot more than was originally expected and also is not now a fire risk.

So it's very nearly ready for Ceri?

[Dobloseven]

16 minutes ago, red5 said:

As pm'd to Dez.

It has an actual functional (new) throttle and choke.

It has a partially unseized distributor. I'm reluctant to attempt to remove it in case it breaks..

It's appropriately tuned.

It starts as it should.

The braking system functions correctly, fluid was changed and cylinders filed to function on floating backplate. 

It stops, as well as they can. 

The throttle cables routing now should be ok and not likely to stick on (saved by previous  hugely sticking brake system I suspect).

The lethal fuel pump and pipework is mostly (as much as it can be) removed and restored to original fuel pump (mechanical).

I have emptied the engine cowl as much as possible of the nuts? that were blocking fins.

The Heinz 57 carb now functions and doesn't leak. It also has working accelerator pump.

I will check it starts as per Monday.

I will check front wheel bearing/kingpin play.

I will refit rest of throttle assembly and attempt to repair the slightly butchered column switch assembly (I suspect it has been switched sides or off another vehicle).

I will (correctly) refit ignition barrel after checking wiring repair still functions.

Any idea of the 0 to 62mph time?

[red5]

5 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Any idea of the 0 to 62mph time?

Not without earplugs, a hill, and my bike leathers. 

Got it up to 20mph on test drive (on drive). 

[busmansholiday]

24 minutes ago, red5 said:

As pm'd to Dez.

It has an actual functional (new) throttle and choke.

It has a partially unseized distributor. I'm reluctant to attempt to remove it in case it breaks..

It's appropriately tuned.

It starts as it should.

The braking system functions correctly, fluid was changed and cylinders filed to function on floating backplate. 

It stops, as well as they can. 

The throttle cables routing now should be ok and not likely to stick on (saved by previous  hugely sticking brake system I suspect).

The lethal fuel pump and pipework is mostly (as much as it can be) removed and restored to original fuel pump (mechanical).

I have emptied the engine cowl as much as possible of the nuts? that were blocking fins.

The Heinz 57 carb now functions and doesn't leak. It also has working accelerator pump.

I will check it starts as per Monday.

I will check front wheel bearing/kingpin play.

I will refit rest of throttle assembly and attempt to repair the slightly butchered column switch assembly (I suspect it has been switched sides or off another vehicle).

I will (correctly) refit ignition barrel after checking wiring repair still functions.

What's that then, about a grands worth of just labour?

[Dobloseven]

4 minutes ago, red5 said:

Not without earplugs, a hill, and my bike leathers. 

Got it up to 20mph on test drive (on drive). 

I reckon we ought to get Guy Martin on the case!

[egg]

20 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

I'm old enough to remember when there were lots of people who had lost large bits of themselves fighting for King and country and were keen to have some sort of life back and the Invacars were everywhere.So let's not belittle the little blue cars too much.For many they were lifegivers.

Exactly this. Government built invalid carriages, to my mind, are all part of the post-war settlement where between 45-79 the State was an active participant in (attempting) to improve the lives of the people in an expanding number of ways. Whether this is a good or bad thing is a matter for the politics forum, but it is a historical fact.

[red5]

14 minutes ago, chadders said:

That sounds like a hell of a lot more than was originally expected and also is not now a fire risk.

So it's very nearly ready for Ceri?

Yes, yes and yes. 

[Christine]

23 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Any idea of the 0 to 62mph time?

82 !    

 

[busmansholiday]

32 minutes ago, Dobloseven said:

Any idea of the 0 to 62mph time?

Stick a Hayabusa in the back instead of the Styer, that'll quicken it up a bit.

[HMC]

I Love the enthusiasm and passion on the thread and the progress forwards happening.

My own take FWIW separate from the people who have one/ are enthusiasts- We have come a long way and driving one about to “celibrate” them sits uneasily with me. I dont get it.

Maybe its because like lots of historical social, medical and health paraphernalia, they were a stepping stone to better things. Maybe more fitting of a museum.

 

[Jim Bergerac]

1 hour ago, egg said:

Exactly this. Government built invalid carriages, to my mind, are all part of the post-war settlement where between 45-79 the State was an active participant in (attempting) to improve the lives of the people in an expanding number of ways. Whether this is a good or bad thing is a matter for the politics forum, but it is a historical fact.

Now we just dish out free MG HS on Motability.

[chadders]

38 minutes ago, HMC said:

I Love the enthusiasm and passion on the thread and the progress forwards happening.

My own take FWIW separate from the people who have one/ are enthusiasts- We have come a long way and driving one about to “celibrate” them sits uneasily with me. I dont get it.

Maybe its because like lots of historical social, medical and health paraphernalia, they were a stepping stone to better things. Maybe more fitting of a museum.

 

When I was growing up they were a common sight.

They were considered contemptible contraptions despite the respect given to their drivers, the war still being very much in people's minds. At least where I lived the view seemed to be that they deserved better. 

No one would have believed that people would drive one voluntarily.

[R Lutz]

1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

Fact is back in the day,the state sponsored death wagons were very clever piece of design that enabled disabled folk to get out and lead something of a normal life.Features like the sliding doors and seats enabled wheelchair users to get in and out independently.Once seated,or even standing in some cases,the control system was almost infinitely adaptable to the point they could be driven by someone with just the use of one hand.The alternative wouldn't be an adapted automatic hatchback, it'd be stopping at home staring out the window.Even today,there's a lad at the end of our road who was a promising Rugby player with a major team.A few years back,he crashed his car into a tree leaving him paralysed from the waist down.He's able to live something of a normal life,living in an adapted ground floor area at his grandma's.He drives a BMW coupe, obviously automatic,with hand controls.But getting in and out independently is a right kerfuffle.He has to open the door,get his wheelchair alongside,get his arse down into the driver's seat,get his legs tucked in etc.And then, obviously as a sportsman,he has a lot of upper body strength,he has to fold up the wheelchair and hoist it over onto the passenger seat.Christ knows what state the interior of the car is in,I see he uses a blanket to protect the centre console.Now tell me he wouldn't find all that easier with something with sliding doors and seats with room to put his wheelchair alongside him.I'm old enough to remember when there were lots of people who had lost large bits of themselves fighting for King and country and were keen to have some sort of life back and the Invacars were everywhere.So let's not belittle the little blue cars too much.For many they were lifegivers.

The intent was honourable. The reality was ultimately horrible. They identified and singled people out for their disability. Right now, the market decides on what can best help people, while the Government just subsidises it rather than prescribing it.