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vulgalour

1980 Austin Princess - well, BUM

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You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

Really sorry to hear it's gone tits up, hope it gets sorted ok. It will be worth it in the end.

Best of luck

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16 hours ago, ETCHY said:

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

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It is easy to forget, because of their familiarity and apparent simplicity, that car engines are an example of precision engineering. Sometimes exactly what matters on re-assembly is lost between the rebuild and the original assembly line procedure. I haven't ever seen an O-series workshop repair manual, but I would be surprised if the presence of the gasket is mentioned in it as being critical. The instruction will simply be to fit a new gasket.

Relying on the thickness of a paper gasket to define one direction of camshaft end float is an example of good production engineering - a gasket which is required anyway also does for free another job. In any design office that is a win.

Obviously it is infuriating when one gets caught out by this sort of subtlety, but it shouldn't be seen as a design fault.

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On 12/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, vulgalour said:

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

See, this is where I was thinking about what people said, making comparisons to the way the engine on the Renault is built- and then to the general design ethos that has been very pervasive over here.

What you experienced there does show just how fine the design tolerances are on that engine. For a paper gasket to be an engineered thickness is a bit of a mind-boggle though mostly because there is so much to go wrong if it's not done just right (wrong thickness gasket, no gasket, over-tightened and crushed gasket), and as you saw with the helicoil that has been tightened by a gorilla at some point in its' history. So, I'd wager the correct type of gasket is very solid and possibly rubberized so as not to crush when it's tightened in order to keep the correct shim thickness. It also means once it gets to be a few years old it'll likely leak like a sieve, particularly if it's undone and reused.

Thus, it's not something that comes to mind- it's Unusual Engineering. Normally, the gasket should crush slightly so nipping the bolts up just a bit can cure a chronic leak, and any kind of engineering tolerance is fixed by a non-crushable item like a metal shim. Certainly if there was a foil-metal shim in there you'd expect things to bind up if it was left out.

That's what I mean by "Unusual Engineering". It's a clever and well-executed design when everything's fresh out of the factory and undisturbed but once it's been apart a few times things begin to show problems. It also assumes the gaskets are available.

Engineering like that here has never really been accepted- if something as simple as a paper gasket can render an engine unusable then the design is wrong. There's not much side-of-the-road get-you-home built in. Compare that to the Buick 3.8 V6. It's perhaps not as refined as your engine but factors such as expansion, wear and general abuse and neglect were factored into the way it was made. It'll run with no oil, no coolant, with a rod having made a hole in the crankcase running on 4. It is the utter antithesis of Alfa Romeo syndrome. You really do need to factor what your typical Alf would make of the design, standing in his grubby overalls, pipe in mouth, tutting over "modern nonsense".

 

Repair it, let it sit.. whichever. The GTA is the same. When it's running it is a really very good little car. Unfortunately it likes to break.

 

--Phil

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7 hours ago, richardthestag said:

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

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15 minutes ago, ETCHY said:

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

let me quote your unpleasant and inaccurate bollocks again

Quote

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

when you get to the bottom of the hole do stop digging 🤣

 

p.s. That ^ was my sense of humour

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For the record my dad worked at Leyland (admittedly the Truck & Bus side) for 25 years, so the chances of me thinking Leyland & anything British is crap, are quite slim 😉

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IIRC you were having a problem sourcing parts at one time down in Mucking Fental, and I wonder if you have a genuine, period parts catalogue for the wedge? I can have a look and see if I have one if not, though most of the ones I have are Jag/Rover/Triumph but I know there are a few Austin Rover ones too. They're a bit* buried so it might take a little while to ferret one out.

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Hey, Vulg, just browsing Facebook and this has popped up for sale...

 

No photo description available.

 

It's in an LDV so guessing it's an 'O' series. It's a 2.0 pez, no idea if it's any good (at all, or for you) but can try and find out if you like?

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 @High Jetter I don't have a parts catalogue, if you do find one please do drop me a message, I'd certainly be interested in acquiring one.

I'd agree on that LDV engine being a Ford lump.  As far as I'm aware, the Freight Rover version of the Sherpa was the last to use the O-Series and it was all Peugeot and Ford by the time you got to LDV era, I'm sure Wikipedia has full info on it, I'm going off info soaked up when actively looking for a Sherpa truck a few years ago purely because they had an engine I knew in them.  Opinions differed on if the O series in the Sherpa really was a lower compression version of that fitted in the cars, since the same was also put in things like Marina vans.  I won't really know what I'm doing engine wise until after the house move, I've decided it's best to hang fire until I've pulled the existing engine apart a bit more to find out exactly what is and isn't damaged before deciding on a course of action.  I probably just need to get a new head gasket set, new timing belt, and either new valves or the valves from my spare head.  Then reshim the valve train and bolt it all back together and we should be good... unless it's done bottom end damage, which is something I need to investigate.  Ironically, I did used to have a bottom end from that orange car I broke a few years ago and only let it go because I couldn't move house with it at the time, I recall somebody bought it for £notalot, just not who.  Thanks for keeping an eye out anyway, it's useful having folks looking in places I don't go.

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