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vulgalour

1980 Austin Princess

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2 hours ago, richardthestag said:

make sure that all pistons crown - i.e. right to the top of the bore

That's a damn good point. Making sure there isn't any damage to the conrods.

Are these wet liner engines? I forget. If it's just a solid block then you don't have to worry about any liners moving.

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No liners, happily.  Lower mileage O series lumps do come up for sale now and then because nobody wants them so I'll be keeping an eye out for one of those too, just in case.  Should've given the crankshaft a twizzle when everything was apart, didn't think to.  Ah well, I'll do it post house move.

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As far as I'm aware, 2.0 and 1.7 O series are the same except for the length of the stroke since BL lengthened the stroke rather than widening the bore to gain extra capacity... somehow.  I was told years ago you can plonk the 2.0 head on a 1.7 block, but also told variously that you do and don't need all of the internals to make it work.  Externally, the two engines look the same, so it's a good cheaty upgrade if you're into that sort of thing... and if you want apparently you can slap a twin carb manifold and carbs from an Austin Ambassador.

Sticking a T in is theoretically possible, but also a total ballache because gearbox-in-sump.  Same goes for the S and M series engines.  The B should theoretically drop straight on, but I've a suspicion the transfer box needs to be changed to be compatible even though the O is an evolution of the B's architecture (I think... I get confused easily on this stuff so might have that wrong).

If I were putting any engine in that wasn't original, it'd be electric.  Can't afford to go that route yet, but I feel like it would really suit the car and the way I use the car.  Theoretically, there's enough space to stick the battery pack where the enormous fuel tank lives, and providing you can get an electric motor that's compatible with the odd gearbox set up - and apparently it's been done to a Mini so I don't see why not - it should be doable.  Not for any sort of financial or planet saving thing, just for the heck of it.

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7 hours ago, vulgalour said:

If I were putting any engine in that wasn't original, it'd be electric.  Can't afford to go that route yet, but I feel like it would really suit the car and the way I use the car.  Theoretically, there's enough space to stick the battery pack where the enormous fuel tank lives, and providing you can get an electric motor that's compatible with the odd gearbox set up - and apparently it's been done to a Mini so I don't see why not - it should be doable.  Not for any sort of financial or planet saving thing, just for the heck of it.

This would be a laugh, imagine the silence as it moves, you would need some sci fi humming noise as it sets off for extra giggles.

There is a company in Wales https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/ that does this kind of thing with DIY kits and everything.

I am looking to do a RR EV for shits and giggles, these chaps did one and KRYTEN LLewellyn tested in on the youtube channel

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Taking a step back from this, and trying to think of other causes, are we sure the width of a paper gasket caused this? It's a fault which would have come to light before now. (Maybe it has, I don't know as I am an iriot re BL stuff).

Vulg this must be rather a bit of a pisser for you, especially with house move etc at the moment, but never mind.

Hey ho, onwards and upwards m8, see what 2020 brings. 

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I've been able to demonstrably prove it's that gasket and since there were zero issues before the gasket was removed and the car was actually running, that would suggest I've found the issue.  Also, as I've pointed out, the car was running perfectly fine right up until that gasket was removed.  There are other examples of paper gaskets being used for similar purposes, the Triumph Stag waterpump mentioned earlier in this thread, and old Ford diff casings mentioned on another.  There will no doubt be plenty of situations where the gasket thickness is vital to operation and it's not encountered because the gaskets are just replaced by rote.

It's a good excuse to buy another Princess too, you know... for parts >.>

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On 11/30/2019 at 6:10 AM, Parky said:

I can’t believe that happened.  
 

It’s the O series definitely an interference engine?  Pretty sure the closely related S series wasn’t 

S-series not closely related to O

E series begat R series which begat S

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Looks like they did a mod on the old waxstat housing similar to what I've done.  Also, their information that the 1.7 isn't unleaded friendly but the 2.0 is contradicts the information I was given and the fact I've been running my 1.7 on unleaded with no bother on that front for a few years now.  I also hate that the whole thing is painted in hammerite... THAT SAID, it's a useful resource to bookmark for the future, so thanks for the tip off!

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On 12/1/2019 at 11:03 AM, richardthestag said:

This would be a laugh, imagine the silence as it moves, you would need some sci fi humming noise as it sets off for extra giggles.

There is a company in Wales https://www.electricclassiccars.co.uk/ that does this kind of thing with DIY kits and everything.

You would get the whine of the electric motor spinning, so not completely silent.

Also, commissioning ECC in Wales to do the conversion work for you means you're unlikely to see much change out of twenty grand.

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Ooh, that is bringing back memories of a decade ago.

Get yourself some valves, fling 'em in, whap a new belt on, bolt it all back together and job's a good'un.

 

You didn't bust any off, all you did was merrily bend the heads of the poppets. It's likely not even done any harm to the guides and so long as the cam bearing carriers are stout enough to tolerate it, a new set of valves will get that going again with no other real worries.

 

While a punch in the gut, it could have been much worse. Chalk it up to experience.

 

--Phil

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That was bad luck really.  Once you do the house move and have your fill of that, I think you will be keen to get back on it.

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On 11/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, junkyarddog said:

You're showing an amazing amount of restraint!

If it was mine I'd have bludgeoned it to death with a sledgehammer !!

 

I'd have made the call to Car Takeback. I've had ungrateful bastards like this before. I don't know how anyone has the patience.

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26 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

Sounds like ye're ready for a CX....

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You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

Really sorry to hear it's gone tits up, hope it gets sorted ok. It will be worth it in the end.

Best of luck

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16 hours ago, ETCHY said:

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

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It is easy to forget, because of their familiarity and apparent simplicity, that car engines are an example of precision engineering. Sometimes exactly what matters on re-assembly is lost between the rebuild and the original assembly line procedure. I haven't ever seen an O-series workshop repair manual, but I would be surprised if the presence of the gasket is mentioned in it as being critical. The instruction will simply be to fit a new gasket.

Relying on the thickness of a paper gasket to define one direction of camshaft end float is an example of good production engineering - a gasket which is required anyway also does for free another job. In any design office that is a win.

Obviously it is infuriating when one gets caught out by this sort of subtlety, but it shouldn't be seen as a design fault.

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On 12/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, vulgalour said:

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

See, this is where I was thinking about what people said, making comparisons to the way the engine on the Renault is built- and then to the general design ethos that has been very pervasive over here.

What you experienced there does show just how fine the design tolerances are on that engine. For a paper gasket to be an engineered thickness is a bit of a mind-boggle though mostly because there is so much to go wrong if it's not done just right (wrong thickness gasket, no gasket, over-tightened and crushed gasket), and as you saw with the helicoil that has been tightened by a gorilla at some point in its' history. So, I'd wager the correct type of gasket is very solid and possibly rubberized so as not to crush when it's tightened in order to keep the correct shim thickness. It also means once it gets to be a few years old it'll likely leak like a sieve, particularly if it's undone and reused.

Thus, it's not something that comes to mind- it's Unusual Engineering. Normally, the gasket should crush slightly so nipping the bolts up just a bit can cure a chronic leak, and any kind of engineering tolerance is fixed by a non-crushable item like a metal shim. Certainly if there was a foil-metal shim in there you'd expect things to bind up if it was left out.

That's what I mean by "Unusual Engineering". It's a clever and well-executed design when everything's fresh out of the factory and undisturbed but once it's been apart a few times things begin to show problems. It also assumes the gaskets are available.

Engineering like that here has never really been accepted- if something as simple as a paper gasket can render an engine unusable then the design is wrong. There's not much side-of-the-road get-you-home built in. Compare that to the Buick 3.8 V6. It's perhaps not as refined as your engine but factors such as expansion, wear and general abuse and neglect were factored into the way it was made. It'll run with no oil, no coolant, with a rod having made a hole in the crankcase running on 4. It is the utter antithesis of Alfa Romeo syndrome. You really do need to factor what your typical Alf would make of the design, standing in his grubby overalls, pipe in mouth, tutting over "modern nonsense".

 

Repair it, let it sit.. whichever. The GTA is the same. When it's running it is a really very good little car. Unfortunately it likes to break.

 

--Phil

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7 hours ago, richardthestag said:

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

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15 minutes ago, ETCHY said:

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

let me quote your unpleasant and inaccurate bollocks again

Quote

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

when you get to the bottom of the hole do stop digging 🤣

 

p.s. That ^ was my sense of humour

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For the record my dad worked at Leyland (admittedly the Truck & Bus side) for 25 years, so the chances of me thinking Leyland & anything British is crap, are quite slim 😉

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IIRC you were having a problem sourcing parts at one time down in Mucking Fental, and I wonder if you have a genuine, period parts catalogue for the wedge? I can have a look and see if I have one if not, though most of the ones I have are Jag/Rover/Triumph but I know there are a few Austin Rover ones too. They're a bit* buried so it might take a little while to ferret one out.

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