captain_70s Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Took the valves out of head No.1 First impressions: The springs wen't grooved into the head like the car's original engine, the ports are full of dead spiders. Split_Pin, scdan4, vulgalour and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Are they OE spiders or aftermarket? Genuine BL arachnids are hard to come by. Just the thing for de-crispifying crusty Triumphs. Datsuncog, stonedagain, 320touring and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Spidershims were a short lived attempt to get extra performance out of these Triumph heads. You're best removing them and cleaning it all down, it'll run much better afterwards. Datsuncog, BlankFrank, somewhatfoolish and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 The spiders are nonfunctional and fall to bits when touched, so 100% BL. Welder would be handy but no garage/driveway/money = no go. Datsuncog, somewhatfoolish, GrumpiusMaximus and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_al_granvia Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 those ports dont look that bad, okay needs a right good going over with a dremel to remove all the crap, plus a bit of polishing improves airflow and the valves will need a proper clean then lapped in... seen worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 I have concerns about the head from the replacement engine. Namely the water passages. Here is a comparison to the Dolly's original head: I'm not really sure of the cause of this, the same passages on the block look fine but the ones on the heard are corroded/eroded away to being nearly wafer thin in places. @davidfowler2000 suggested it could have been sandy crap flowing around in the system eating away at the edges, or has it been sat with no antifreeze in it or something? Unsure what to do here. I could file them smooth but then there would be huge overlaps with the head gasket and the current holes are very close to the cylinders in places... It's looking like this head may be a write off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split_Pin Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Is it just me or are there circular marks on Head no1? I'm a novice at best but doesn't the machine that skims a head make a similar sort of movement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Yeah, head No.1 has definitely been skimmed at some point. I initially assumed the crumbly edges were because the original smooth edge had been knocked off by the skim but looking at the car's original head shows that not to be the case. Split_Pin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Bear in mind that the head gasket sealing for the cylinders is done by the flame ring and that's barely a couple of mm wide; it does look a bit shonky though, perhaps a bad casting(say it ain't so, BL!) or long term use of water without corrosion inhibitors, especially guid soft scottish water which can be quite acidic relatively speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_al_granvia Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 aye that head looks like it needs expensive work compared to the original one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 On 8/28/2019 at 1:24 PM, big_al_granvia said: both need a good clean, de-carbon and the valves ground in... if either is unleaded then great, if not trip to bayron classic engineering for new guides and seats I can't see any unleaded valve seats in the pictures but as long as the valves and seats look OK after lapping in, I wouldn't bother with an unleaded conversion at this point. With sensible driving they will still last a long time. An unleaded conversion means machining out the exhaust valve ports to take hardened inserts and fitting harder valves. But if you run it as it is the only damage you will do is to the exhaust valve seats which are the exact same bits that would have to be machined out to fit the hardened inserts anyway so it doesn't matter if you damage them. And if they look OK after a quick regrind they will last many thousands of miles. Meaning you can make sure the rest of the engine is OK first. alf892 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Dentressangle Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I never bothered with hardened valve seats for my 2.25 Land Rover engine. My understanding is that valve seat recession is only really an issue if an engine's used at prolonged high revs, so not a problem in a 56 year old Land Rover. As said, they get replaced in the machining anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Took a well deserved break from engine shit. Went to visit @DodgyBastard and weld the Acclaim's sill... It's not exactly factory fresh but it'll do the job, Acclaim sills live mostly under the car out of sight anyway... Naturally everything escalated and much rebuilding of inner panels and bits of the floor was required. I started with grand aspirations of making it look nice but as night drew in priorities were shifted more towards the "get it out of here before midnight" direction. I can't claim much credit as FOADyBastard did the lion's share of the welding, and I ran him out of gas... theshadow, mat_the_cat, danthecapriman and 13 others 14 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozeydustman Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 @captain_70s what's the long term plan for 1300 dolly? If you're just looking at getting the car on the road for a few years part time use then head no 1 looks ok providing you look after it. Certainly doesn't appear to be original to the block if you say the block's passages don't look as corroded. If it was an alloy head then I would have started to ring alarm bells, but an iron head is a hell of a lot more forgiving so can withstand a wee bit neglect. As long as there aren't cracks in those coolant passages. Head 0 looks like it's in a reasonable condition; perhaps just re-shell the replacement block, whack original head on and dump whole lot in the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Current plan is get the car roadworthy enough to last a few years, mostly just to keep it mobile and legal. One day I'll have a garage and money and do it proper like, but not now... Head 0 suffers from valve seat recession, the car burnt oil like a bastard. The fact the valve springs were etched quite deeply into the head suggests a history of shit lubrication... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozeydustman Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I'd consider getting the bare minimum done to the donor engine if it were mine. The head looks serviceable at least, hopefully the bottom end is reasonable and just a set of shells will see it good (if that) - looking around £100inc % for the bottom end bearings. Should see you a good 3 years of 1-2 times a week motoring mechanically at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgyBastard Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 RJC_1634 by srblythe, on Flickr RJC_1640 by srblythe, on Flickr Here's a couple of action shots of the inner sill going in. theshadow, timolloyd, adw1977 and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Also forgot to mention, head no.1 also features dual valve springs. Suggests it's seen some hard use perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozeydustman Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, captain_70s said: Also forgot to mention, head no.1 also features dual valve springs. Suggests it's seen some hard use perhaps? Doing some googling it would appear that later UK spec MkIV spitfires had dual valve springs; US spec ones didn't. About 12 posts in https://www.triumphexp.com/forum/spitfire-and-gt6-forum.8/spitfire-valve-springs-single-or-dual.932516/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgyBastard Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I made a time lapse video of the other day, I had hoped to get all of the work in but I think my battery died or something. timolloyd, captain_70s, Tam and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 Valves removed from both heads now. The valves from head no.1 are pitted and the profile seems to be more curved than it should be? Seats are generally corroded. Head No.0 seem to have healthier looking valves. Although given it hasn't been sat in a shed for an unknown period of time this isn't too shocking. Seats looks marginally worse. Left is a valve from head no.0 the right is a valve from no.1 At this point I'm edging toward saying "fuck it", and reusing the car's original head and valves and seeing if I can lap out the worst of the pitting. Both heads need machine work that isn't financially viable at the moment, considering whipping the head off is a 2 hour job and costs nothing but gaskets it's no hardship to do things properly at a later date when life allows me more time/money. Bottom end/pistons/bores of engine no.1 shall be investigated later this week. Mostly out of curiosity and to do cleaning work, it's definitely the better of the two given the lack of lateral and vertical movement in the pistons... Did I mention this whole thing is bodgery? This whole thing is bodgery. GrumpiusMaximus, scdan4, Yoss and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 31 minutes ago, captain_70s said: ....Did I mention this whole thing is bodgery? This whole thing is bodgery. Yes, but at least you get to add a chapter to The Art of Flogging A Dead Horse.... stonedagain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tadhg Tiogar said: Yes, but at least you get to add a chapter to The Art of Flogging A Dead Horse.... I'm currently flogging the skeleton of a horse with it's own bones. rml2345, egg, purplebargeken and 5 others 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadhg Tiogar Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, captain_70s said: I'm currently flogging the skeleton of a horse with it's own bones. That's called "refining the theory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somewhatfoolish Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 It's only dead when the top goes on the pot of glue. GrumpiusMaximus and stonedagain 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 Episode 206 of "why I hate my life and smell like oil". I took the sump off engine no.1 and pulled a piston. Nothing looks horrendously fucky. People who've pulled an engine apart before feel free to comment and let me know otherwise. Regardless, I've run out of money big time, so if it'll run it'll be going in the car largely as is... GrumpiusMaximus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dozeydustman Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 The bores look pretty good, a few very light vertical scores possibly caused by the ring gap, but still plenty of what appears to be honing marks. Inspect the piston rings for signs that they might go bad - sharp edges and cracks - and try and see if there is any slop in the small end. The bottom end bearings look useable as well for a good few miles yet, so I'd whack that bottom end back together, but make sure the bearing faces around the crank have some viscous lubricant on them, I know you have no money but a smoll bottle of engine assembly lube can be had for about a fiver and will prevent those shells getting knackered quickly - a nearby shiter may have some you can borrow or a spare workbench to do some of these jobs on. Top end, personally I'd use the head that came with this disassembled engine; besides being original to it and matching the block etc for any wear points, I don't think the coolant passages in it are anything to worry about. Lap valves in and keep the double springs as from what I can gather these Triumph OHV engines in twin carb form can suffer from valve bounce, it's a bit belt & braces for a single carb but again it's keeping the head as it was intended to be. GrumpiusMaximus, Split_Pin, Datsuncog and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_70s Posted September 9, 2019 Author Share Posted September 9, 2019 Super. That'll roll well... Triumph aiding brethren with tyre pumping action. Dropping water ballast for additional lift. (No, that isn't a drain hole, yes that it underneath the petrol tank.) These cars are now 40ft further down the road. You don't get footage of the Acclaim towing it backwards on to the street with Girlfriend_70's steering or the Eastern European chaps helping to push it along the road because I'd blocked the whole street and was developing a crowd of onlookers so was in a rush... I some worm's home. As soon as the car was moved a disgustingly grotty Corsa took it's place. The flat is also a disaster, with car parts featuring in nearly ever room. somewhatfoolish, Dave_Q, Aston Martin and 15 others 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave j Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 At least it wasn't an abandoned car notice! That's what I thought when I first saw the picture. egg, Aston Martin, LightBulbFun and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'coli Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/2/2019 at 11:47 PM, captain_70s said: Valves removed from both heads now. The valves from head no.1 are pitted and the profile seems to be more curved than it should be? Seats are generally corroded. Head No.0 seem to have healthier looking valves. Although given it hasn't been sat in a shed for an unknown period of time this isn't too shocking. Seats looks marginally worse. Left is a valve from head no.0 the right is a valve from no.1 At this point I'm edging toward saying "fuck it", and reusing the car's original head and valves and seeing if I can lap out the worst of the pitting. Both heads need machine work that isn't financially viable at the moment, considering whipping the head off is a 2 hour job and costs nothing but gaskets it's no hardship to do things properly at a later date when life allows me more time/money. Bottom end/pistons/bores of engine no.1 shall be investigated later this week. Mostly out of curiosity and to do cleaning work, it's definitely the better of the two given the lack of lateral and vertical movement in the pistons... Did I mention this whole thing is bodgery? This whole thing is bodgery. Valves from head no.1 suggest that they've already been out for a de-coke and lap-in at least once prior to this time, head no.0 not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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