Zel's Motoring Adventures...Peugeot, Renault, Rover, Trabant, Invacar & A Sinclair C5 - 19/04 - HVAC Preemptive Investigation...

[Six-cylinder]

You can run but you can't hide!

[Zelandeth]

28 minutes ago, Six-cylinder said:

You can run but you can't hide!

Not as though I'm easy to spot or anything...

That would have been the point in the day where between road closures and approximately half the population of the country seemingly having decided that Bletchley and Westcroft were the place to be today I'd decided I'd had enough and was heading for the A5 and I didn't care if it was geographically the long way round by that point!

[mat_the_cat]

On 7/5/2023 at 10:25 PM, Zelandeth said:

One brake caliper freshly rebuilt by Bigg Red Brakes over by Worcester.  Only dropped it off on Monday afternoon and got a call late on yesterday saying it was ready to pick up.  Given the luck we've had with this so far I decided not to allow the postal system to get involved so did the delivery and collection in person.  Very pleasant to deal with, and I thought the £110 asked to rebuild a pretty damned substantial four pot caliper like this was entirely reasonable, I was braced for considerably more.  In all honesty if I'd known that was the price tag attached and that it could be turned around anything like that quickly I'd have just done this in the first place.  Lesson learned.

Won't be till next week it can be reunited with the van, but hopefully that should then be the end of our braking woes.  At least I trust that this one has been properly put together unlike the supposedly "professionally rebuilt" one from eBay which was dead out of the box.

Mine on the Stellar were done by them 9 years ago, and have lasted longer (both finish and function) than the new eBay calipers I put on the LT, which suffered from disintegrating dust seals, and consequent rusted pistons.

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 02/07/2023 at 14:35, Zelandeth said:

  Especially after a higher speed run.

Then went out for a half hour or so test drive, including a fast run up and back down the A5.

 

don't be so vulgar! it's a rover it procedes in a business like manner!😁

[Zelandeth]

On 7/7/2023 at 10:33 PM, Noel Tidybeard said:

don't be so vulgar! it's a rover it procedes in a business like manner!😁

True...it just proceeds in a business like manner far more rapidly than you'd think to look at it.

Had a couple of people ask me what's inside the huge great air box that looks like an exhaust silencer.  The answer is a fair amount of empty space and a very ordinary air cleaner element.

Not sure what this has actually come from (and it helpfully has zero markings on), as at least when most of the documents I've read on these cars were written, the correct elements were unavailable and this one isn't the worst fit at all.

Had very little time available today but was determined to tick at least one thing off the to do list.  Today's was functionally irrelevant but felt like an achievement.

Spot the difference.  Well aside from the location and time of day anyway...

Hopefully those being missing will stop being the thing that everyone I speak to about the car in person immediately points out to me now.

Also had a look at the passenger door.

The issue is clear to see here.

The top of the door sits the best part of 1/4" too far out.  Which now I've noticed a very distinct gouge directly above the trailing edge of the door and paint flaked off the gutter I almost wonder if the door top has been bent by someone breaking in (or attempting to).

The whole upper edge sits too far out though, which means that most of the leading edge sits proud of the gutter.

The result of this being absolutely horrendous amounts of wind noise.  It is honestly quieter with the passenger window open than closed.

Here's the driver's side for comparison.

That door has dropped slightly through wear so doesn't contact the seal along the top edge very well, but it doesn't make an undue racket.  The passenger side is horrendous though.

There doesn't seem to be any adjustment range left in the hinge setup, so I think a bit of brute force may well just be needed here to convince the top of the door to sit closer to where it's meant to.

[SiC]

The air cleaner on this is vastly over engineered and even more complex inside to reduce the intake sound as much as possible. Because Rover.

They're readily available and reasonably priced:

https://www.johnwearingp4parts.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=532138

https://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/browse-p4-categories/ignition/air-filter-110.html

Owner before me changed it, so it hasn't had that many miles on it.

I've noticed quite a lot of older literature say about the lack of certain parts but in recent years they have been remanufactured. For example the rear cylinders are now made again. Pretty pricey though. The ones on here I didn't replace as they looked in good condition and no leaking. While the remanufactured ones are supposed to be good quality, I didn't want to risk changing a perfectly good, non leaking original part that is working very happily to something modern.

 

[Zelandeth]

31 minutes ago, SiC said:

The air cleaner on this is vastly over engineered and even more complex inside to reduce the intake sound as much as possible. Because Rover.

They're readily available and reasonably priced:

https://www.johnwearingp4parts.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=532138

https://www.jrwadhams.co.uk/browse-p4-categories/ignition/air-filter-110.html

Owner before me changed it, so it hasn't had that many miles on it.

I've noticed quite a lot of older literature say about the lack of certain parts but in recent years they have been remanufactured. For example the rear cylinders are now made again. Pretty pricey though. The ones on here I didn't replace as they looked in good condition and no leaking. While the remanufactured ones are supposed to be good quality, I didn't want to risk changing a perfectly good, non leaking original part that is working very happily to something modern.

 

Thanks for that.  I figured that may well be the case, hadn't had reason to actually go looking yet as as you say the filter clearly isn't in need of changing yet.  I wouldn't have gone changing things like wheel cylinders either unless there was any reason to suspect them.  Different case when I was working on TPA where they cost less than a coffee and the car had been sitting around for a couple of decades.

The engineering in this intake system is kind of mind boggling when you look at it.  There's actually even baffling in that big cast aluminium duct that runs to the carb as well.  One of the reasons it weighs so much.  

It is very noticeable if the engine is run under load with the outer silencer removed.  A rather glorious noise, but rather out of character for the car!

[Noel Tidybeard]

51 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

It is very noticeable if the engine is run under load with the outer silencer removed.  A rather glorious noise, but rather out of character for the car!

hooligan!😲😁

[beko1987]

Maybe if we gently rolled it over at the FoD onto a mattress it'd sort those doors out? 🤔

[Supernaut]

About a decade ago I had a Peugeot 306 that got broken into by bending the top of the passenger door away from the body (quite significantly too).

I managed to repair it using some blocks of wood and a sledgehammer, it sealed better than before, and the window still worked too.

[SiC]

I'm currently waiting for someone to post the Trabant production line video...

[Zelandeth]

Things I discovered yesterday:

1. Those doors are bloody sturdy.

2. The bottom hinge isn't actually bolted to the door.

I suspect that may be part of my issue.

[Zelandeth]

Fscking finally!

That only took us a month and 12 days if my math is right.  To sort a brake imbalance issue due to a sticking caliper.  

Of course as this has been a farce from square one (through no real fault of the garage by the way), the job had one last laugh to have...want to guess what the weather looked like here when I got the call to say it was ready?

Yeeeahh...

Thunder storm decided that was the perfect moment to arrive - exactly the sort of conditions I wanted for a five or so mile bike ride...so I took the Caddy and thankfully found somewhere nearby to park up until I could get a lift back later in the day to retrieve that rather than getting drowned or struck by lightning.

 

The passenger door on the Rover I discovered only had one loose bolt in the lower hinge rather than three.

Having properly secured it down there has definitely helped.

Still sitting a bit further out at the top edge than it should be, but a lot better than it was.  Wind noise is still far worse than the driver's side, but is less deafening than it used to be.  So progress.

[Zelandeth]

The van has been delivered to its new home with @RichardK as of yesterday.

Very much mixed feelings, though I still think moving it on was the right decision logically.  I just hope she behaves half as well for him as for me.  Really hasn't been a needy vehicle in the last five years at all.

Having a covered but well ventilated area to live long term I think will definitely help the odds of the van continuing to exist too, given the whole water ingress being the biggest killer of coach built bodies like this one.

I will be picking up my mother in law from the airport tomorrow morning, so the Caddy got a clean up today as it was in a right state.

At least it's no longer 70% dog hair by volume.  For about 24 hours anyway.  Being able to see out of any of the rear windows rather than them being totally covered in nose prints from these two is novel!

[Zelandeth]

Had TPA out again today.  Took the opportunity to investigate why the handbrake was being a bit sticky.  As the pull cable had been well greased and the cable at the drum end was moving perfectly freely my suspicions were pointed at the cantilever mechanism under the floor being sticky or the return spring having failed.

Sure enough, it was quite stiff to move, especially towards the end of its travel.  

After dousing the whole contraption in penetrating oil and working it a whole bunch it freed off.  I'll need to get the car jacked up so I can give it a proper clean up and lubricate it with something better than WD40, but it has at least proven I was on the right track.  I do think the return spring might be a bit tired as well which wouldn't help.

 

I've also got one of the shock absorbers on the Rover swapped.

Got to be one of the easiest cars to do this job on.  Only slight headache has been the whole upper housing spinning on the nearside one, but I've found the vice grips now at least so can deal with that next time.  

The one which came off is utterly knackered.  Providing absolutely no damping whatsoever in one direction, but is virtually impossible to move in the other -  if I stand on it, it will compress over the course of about a minute.  So that won't have been doing anything any favours.  It feels based on the old fashioned "bounce test" that there's a lot more movement on this side than the other.

Will hopefully get the other one done tomorrow and will see if that's helped the ride at all.

[Zelandeth]

Other damper now done. 

How did I get anything done before I bought an impact gun?

Impact spun the nut straight off without having to bother clamping the top part of the shock in place or anything like that.

Again it was a ten minute job.

Just like the other side this one was providing absolutely no damping in one direction but far too much in the other.

This hasn't fixed the issues with the ride being horribly bouncy, but has definitely helped.  So the springs are definitely binding up I reckon - really isn't anything else involved which can affect things.  The feeling is that things are over-damped, it's like driving a HGV without any cargo on board.  The springs themselves could well just be tired as well.  I haven't *seen* any cracked leaves, but I've never had the rear jacked up with the wheels off yet.  That might be a job for the weekend if time permits.

[PhilA]

Shouldn't be firm. The leaves have probably rusted together.

Mine have grease points, and are made by sandwiching greaseproof paper (!) between the leaves, smothered in grease, wrapped in a metal case to try prevent dirt ingress. Might have worked for a few years. Maybe.

Doesn't look like they need to be re-set at least. 

Phil

[Zelandeth]

27 minutes ago, PhilA said:

Shouldn't be firm. The leaves have probably rusted together.

Mine have grease points, and are made by sandwiching greaseproof paper (!) between the leaves, smothered in grease, wrapped in a metal case to try prevent dirt ingress. Might have worked for a few years. Maybe.

Doesn't look like they need to be re-set at least. 

Phil

That's what I'm expecting to be the issue.  It'll need to come apart to be properly cleaned and greased long term.  However I'll be making sure I have a full new set of bushings, fasteners etc on hand before attempting that, and it won't be happening until after the Renault is sorted.  At least then if I break something I'm not immobilising the backup car!

...I usually have a rule of not touching suspension components, but I can't see any of my local garages being willing to touch this!

Given pretty much every report I've heard of these cars universally praise the ride quality, something clearly isn't right.

[PhilA]

Agreed. Likely the dampers jammed up because they haven't moved in a long while.

[Tigerfox]

You need one of these spring greasers

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, Tigerfox said:

You need one of these spring greasers

Every day's a school day.  I never even knew such a tool existed until now.

[Tigerfox]

I have one somewhere. If i can find it I will lend it to you.

The one in the photo is on ebay at present

[rusty_vw_man]

Spring greaser - added to the mental list of cool tools I may never need!! 

[High Jetter]

10 hours ago, Tigerfox said:

You need one of these spring greasers

It separates the leaves so you can insert grease? New one on me as well.

[Surface Rust]

Wow, I never knew about leaf spring greasers either - did you end up buying them? I have often pondered if I should be oiling mine but couldn't think how to introduce it between the leaves so just resorted to spraying them in GT85.

Despite my P4 being a big saggy at the back, it still has a cosseting ride.

[Zelandeth]

Nothing like being inconspicuous.

Later in the afternoon it was time to take a closer look at the springs.

Those are some chunky brake drums.

At one point in time these wraps around the springs would have been useful.  Sadly that time is long past and they were simply holding in a considerable amount of mud, grit and rust.

So I've scraped all the crud off and given everything a good slathering with engine oil and have left it to soak.

Nothing broken I can see at least.  It really does need to come apart to be properly cleaned and greased long term though.  If we could get it to something resembling an acceptable state in the meantime though that would be nice!

By the way, yes there is an axle stand just out of shot under the frame.

[LightBulbFun]

On 17/07/2023 at 18:17, Zelandeth said:

The van has been delivered to its new home with @RichardK as of yesterday.

Very much mixed feelings, though I still think moving it on was the right decision logically.  I just hope she behaves half as well for him as for me.  Really hasn't been a needy vehicle in the last five years at all.

Having a covered but well ventilated area to live long term I think will definitely help the odds of the van continuing to exist too, given the whole water ingress being the biggest killer of coach built bodies like this one.

sad to hear of the camper being moved on, it was always lots of fun when you would give me a lift from MKC with it  (and I am very pleased/thankful I had the opportunity to pilot it around the FoD at least  )

but I am glad to hear its going to a good home here on the forum  

 

and awesome to hear TPA has been out and about 

20 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Nothing like being inconspicuous.

I mean thats relatively stealthy compared to TPA! its the sort thing that someone would drive past, and then a few moments later go "hang on was that a P4? back there" especially in its darker tones

where as TPA is more of a "WTF is/was that" as someone drives past  

[PhilA]

On 7/21/2023 at 1:00 PM, High Jetter said:

It separates the leaves so you can insert grease? New one on me as well.

Service manual for mine shows a shirt/tie clad engineer using what looks like a Hydragas unit to forcefully squeeze grease between the leaves.

C clamp with a hole through it and a grease nipple would probably work as well.

Does the leaf pack have a couple holes underneath on the lowest leaf? Would look like it's for drainage, but that's a grease point usually.

[Zelandeth]

6 hours ago, PhilA said:

Service manual for mine shows a shirt/tie clad engineer using what looks like a Hydragas unit to forcefully squeeze grease between the leaves.

C clamp with a hole through it and a grease nipple would probably work as well.

Does the leaf pack have a couple holes underneath on the lowest leaf? Would look like it's for drainage, but that's a grease point usually.

Nothing like that on these.  The manual specifically mentions splitting things to clean and lubricate.  One of those tools to separate the leaves enough to pump grease in though should be a decent compromise.

Having oiled this one spring has *definitely* made a positive difference though.  I wouldn't say it's moving as freely as it should, but it's definitely better.  Cruising on a reasonably smooth road is almost acceptable now, whereas before I was still obviously bouncing off the base of the seat.  That's only having done one side once too...so I reckon we're on the right track.

Given the state of the rear shocks it's probably not the worst idea to do the front ones too as they visibly look just as old, as the front is also a bit on the crashy side.  That is coil based though, so no spring binding to worry about there.

 

Something this car does occasionally like to do after a higher speed run is to blow a little water out the radiator overflow shortly after the engine has stopped.  Not a huge amount (especially bearing in mind the 15 litre & change capacity of the system) but enough to make a mess.  Generate a bit of an impressive cloud of steam sometimes as well on a humid day as it just ran down the back of the radiator.  I think it should have had a pipe to route it onto the ground back in the day but that had long since vanished.

Quick rummage in the pipe stash turned up a length of 10mm microbore heating tube which was a nice snug fit.  Sorted.

I'll probably route the end of that into a glass jar or something like that so I'm not dumping coolant onto the ground.

[SiC]

Usually on these age cars it dumps the excess coolant out of the radiator. It'll then find its own natural level where it stops doing it.