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1980 Austin Princess - 20/09 BUCKETS

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#3151 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:18 PM

\o/


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#3152 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:31 PM

Do you know what though, Mike pointed out it's a naughty driver there.  He's doing 42 in a 40 and using his phone to take a picture.


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#3153 ONLINE   PhilA

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:06 PM

I want to know what people's suggestions were.

It's a Lamborghini, mate


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#3154 OFFLINE   Steve79

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:26 PM

Guesses were limited to these. I felt it best to satisfy their curiosity and have directed them to this thread.

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#3155 ONLINE   PhilA

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:36 PM

Impressive. I would have thought a wider variety of randomness.
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#3156 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 09:54 PM

That rear wheel does look a bit funny now it's been mentioned, but it's just the photograph.  In reality it does not look like a Minor that's about to experience trunnion failure.  Disappointed they managed to guess what it was, but also sort of pleased that people still know what a Princess is.



#3157 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:08 PM

Dieseling.

 

Mike and I have been trying to get to the bottom of what might be causing this.  We've already gone through the electrical components, timing, carburettor settings, etc. and everything checks out as nice and healthy with no obvious cause for concern.  Fuel consumption is also about where it should be and there doesn't appear to be an issue with loss of compression or any issue with oil pressure.  Just some days it runs on quite badly.

 

I did wonder if it's my recent driving habits as I've been doing lots of very short 4-10 mile hops and rarely do a long run.  Today the dieseling was very bad, with the car running on for 10-15 seconds when I stopped for fuel.  I decided to take the car on a higher speed road and blow out the cobwebs and when I got home after that, it didn't run on at all.  This isn't the first time a good run has cured the issue but I'd like to know what's causing the issue in the first place and if there's something else I can do to stop it.


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#3158 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:33 PM

I fear the only cure may be to travel back in time 20 years ago to buy petrol. I dicked around trying to effect a cure some years ago, gave up and fitted one of those Escort II Tecalmit air valve Ford bodges.


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#3159 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:51 PM

SOC said much the same.  I do value his opinion, just looking for more in case I missed something serious.  The really annoying thing is that back in 2012/3 it didn't do this so I imagine it must be something they did to the fuel between then and now, since I'm using ostensibly the same stuff.  Some folks have said use premium rather than regular but the Princess has always run like utter garbage on premium so I run it on regular and until very recently, never had a problem.



#3160 OFFLINE   DodgeRover

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 03:56 PM

How fast is it ticking over? We had a sigma that did the same until I slowed it down a tiny bit - only 50 rpm or so...

#3161 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 04:06 PM

I don't know, because I can't remember and I have no rev gauge (as standard).  What I do know is it was correct when we went through everything, something like 800, I think? That might be wrong.  It's actually idling and running really nicely so I don't think it's rpm related.  It does seem more likely it's as Des and SOC have said which is modern fuel being rubbish.  Some folk have recommended sticking a lead additive in but I can't see how that would actually help.



#3162 OFFLINE   SiC

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

Do you have anywhere near that still sells genuine 4-star? There is a place near me that still does, under the BWOC banner.
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#3163 ONLINE   Asimo

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 04:23 PM


I think every B series I've driven did this, even in the days of leaded petrol. It became quite automatic to cut the engine in gear and gently stall it!

Many carburettors have fuel cut-off valves so as to stop this problem, but not SUs.

I suppose you could try cooler plugs?

#3164 ONLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 04:27 PM

Going back 30 years when I set these up[ with a Crypton tuner, two engines were prone to running on and they were the Ford Crossflow and the O Series. Ford fitted an anti run on valve on the later mark 2 Escorts, a device that opens when the ignition is switched off to flood the carb and ports with air. Another thing was Forte decoking stuff, hold it at 1500 rpm and pour this stuff down the carb to burn off the coke deposits. A bloody good caning might achieve the same results. You may also want to retard the timing a couple of degrees and/or set the idle at 750 rpm.


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#3165 ONLINE   Zelandeth

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:15 PM

My second Metro did this the whole time I had it, despite having spent no shortage of time, effort and money stopping it.  No other running issues...just refused to shut off cleanly on a warm day.

 

I eventually just got used to being prepared to stall it if necessary...


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#3166 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:30 PM

To clear up confusion, this is an O series equipped car, not a B series.  Unleaded friendly from new, as far as I'm aware, so four star (even if I could find it) is unlikely to help.  Had to  do another short run as I'd forgotten something and when I got back, no running on.

 

That's the other issue, sometimes it runs on and sometimes it doesn't and I can't figure a reliable pattern out to that.  Hot starting is improved, at least, which I'm putting down to the aluminium heat shield I made which is an exact copy of the compressed fibre one I salvaged from another car.  The carburettor sits behind the engine on top of the exhaust manifold and there's no easy way to get the hot air out from that bit so it used to refuse to start on a hot day or after it got hot.  Of course, I may have swapped the hot start problem for the dieseling problem by fitting this heat shield, but I'm not sure how that would be.

 

I also noticed the idle screw isn't the tightest fit any more, neither is the mixture screw for that matter, so I suppose it's possible the adjustments are drifting just enough to be a problem but not enough to stop things working.

 

It could also very likely just be a case of TADTS and something I just have to put up with.



#3167 ONLINE   The Reverend Bluejeans

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:57 PM

  Unleaded friendly from new, as far as I'm aware

 

 

Not sure they were. Alloy head, but iron valve seats. The O Series was never certified for the USA so had no reason to run U/L. Later Montego/Rover ones might be.


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#3168 OFFLINE   Des

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:05 PM

Well I tried timing, plugs, richening idle mix, cooler thermostat, as well as measures of desperation like dwell angle faffing, the 4 star additive that upped the octane, tappets adjusted on the loose side, running around the back and stuffing a carrot up the tailpipe but to no avail. It was a bloody auto so no halting the jaunty percussion solo with the clutch for me, was a Princess as well now I think of it, the old donkey RWD one. I always meant to try seeing if there was a difference between turning off the ignition immediately, and leaving to idle for a while first, but never remembered to.

You could always leave it as is, maybe try and exacerbate it, nice way to stick two fingers up at modern bollocks stop start technology.


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#3169 OFFLINE   wuvvum

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:14 PM

Maybe it thinks it's a Maxi?



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#3170 OFFLINE   Timewaster

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:31 PM

My dads Maxi was terrible for it.

You could pull up, get out, lock the car, walk round to the back door, go in the house, walk past the window and the Maxi was still sitting the chuffing away to itself.
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#3171 OFFLINE   4wheeledstool

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:37 PM

My Cavalier did this on regular 95 RON pez - since I switched to using V power or Tesco's Momentum 99 it hasn't done it once. No ethanol in either apparently.

#3172 OFFLINE   plasticvandan

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:02 PM

Generally,alloy heads already have hardened valve seats.

#3173 OFFLINE   GrumpiusMaximus

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:16 PM

I suspect ethanol might be doing it. Higher octane rating and would perhaps evaporate into the top of the carb? Splitting the fuel?

#3174 OFFLINE   Squire_Dawson

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:34 PM

Running on if not ignition timing as you've checked it could be an air leak or carbon build up - possible with short runs but generally unheard of these days. Even very old engines don't need a decoke if treated well.


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#3175 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 10:47 PM

That little dashcam has proved useful with one thing and that's timing the run-on.  Yesterday, when it was really bad, it managed a spectacular 17 seconds.  Today the problem hasn't been apparent, but then I also did a longer drive on purpose, at higher speeds, and that seems to have stopped it running on.  So maybe it is a little coked up from all these short hops I've been doing.  I shall just have to drive it more and faster I guess.



#3176 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:12 PM

Interesting development on this in that I might have found part of the problem.  After piddling about with stuff yesterday the car has been well behaved today until I got stuck in traffic on the way home and I noticed the idle was much too high.   Initially I was worried it was that headlight earth problem but the headlights weren't on and it wasn't presenting with a stiff throttle, it was like the throttle was sticking partially open at idle.  Popped the bonnet when I got a chance and sure enough, the throttle arm wasn't returning to rest properly.  A bit of a wiggle and normal function was resumed but looking at the arm and mechanisms everything is covered in grease and dust, probably from the bodywork and welding I've been doing lately, so I'll give that all a clean up and see if this problem goes away.

 

Also, no dieseling today to speak of until I got back after the sticky throttle incident so I suspect this is the actual cause, helped along by higher temperatures the past couple of days and rubbish modern fuel.


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#3177 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:52 PM

Bit more of an update on this, I feel like I'm getting somewhere with diagnosis.  Degreased and re-greased the mechanism and now the throttle is lovely and smooth but it's still sometimes sticking a little higher than it ought at idle, a carb strip down, clean up, and rebuild looks likely which isn't a huge problem apart from struggling to find a choke cable (I may be able to repurpose a Mini one, not sure yet).  The other thing I found while degreasing the mech is that I had an air leak right where the carb joins the heatshield and/or spacer block which certainly won't be helping matters.

 

I've got it to stop dieseling 95% of the time now, happily, by just cleaning and regreasing the mech.  I reckon I can resolve that 5% by performing a full strip down and clean and fitting new gaskets or gasket goo to the spacer block.  I may even replace the spacer block with a metal one since it's the same as used on the Mini.  I suspect this carburettor is actually just worn out so I'll probably rebuild my spare one since I can live with the one on the car at the moment.

 

This is happily fairly easy tinkering work that's little more than maintenance rather than the rather more annoying problems I was dealing with last year, so I don't mind it so much.


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#3178 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 01:32 PM

Before stripping the carb down I wanted to replace the choke cable, the one on the car is badly frayed and deformed at the carb end and I knew it wasn't going to go back in the tiny little hole again.  Trouble is, finding a Princess specific choke cable is something I've never managed to do, so after discovering a few bits are shared with the good old Mini, I took a chance and bought what looked like the same cable for one of those since it was very cheap and not too risky a gamble.

 

Here's how you do it.  First, you need to purchase a  classic Mini choke cable OR a generic one.  I bought a 60" cable because I wasn't sure how long it needed to be but I knew that would be more than enough, there are generic ones available that are shorter.  I also got the one Minimine stock because the handle is as close to identical as you're likely to get to the one that was in the Princess originally.  First job is to undo the tiny nut on the choke cable mechanism at the curburettor.  I used a screwdriver socket drive with a relevant tiny socket on for this since that's easier to get in with than a ratchet.

27494305347_06128c0b39_b.jpg20180526-01 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then, pull the choke cable through from the inside of the car, leaving the outer sheath in place.  This is important as the outer sheath isn't interchangable with the Mini/generic cable and generally they aren't damaged anyway.  You may find it easier to disconnect one half of the column shroud for rethreading the cable, you may be okay doing it with it in place.  I elected to remove the shroud as it's only two screws, one being next to the choke pull and the other at the bottom of the shroud at about 7 o'clock position as you look at the steering column from the steering wheel end.

27494305227_d825f2e6a2_b.jpg20180526-02 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

This is the mess that is my old cable.  That's never going to go back in its place and having already been trimmed in the past, there isn't enough cable left to trim it shorter to get back to anything good again.

27494305147_60087b56ec_b.jpg20180526-03 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

This is the outer sheath of the Mini cable, designed this way so it can be screwed to the dash panel.  This doesn't easily go into the Princess so it's best just to bin this bit, you don't need it (unless you have another car that does, of course).

27494305117_a26c5df6d3_b.jpg20180526-04 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Here are the cable inners side by side.  The shinier one is the new one.  They have a slightly different shape towards the choke pull end but they are otherwise identical.  The new cable is ever so slightly thicker too.  This is why I suspected this would work.

27494305067_f9444e509d_b.jpg20180526-05 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then, you thread the new cable from the column shroud end.  I found this easier with the shroud unscrewed from the column so I could line the cable up easier.  Rethreading it is really easy providing your sheath is in good condition and requires no effort at all, which is nice.  Once rethreaded, reattach the column shroud then rethread the cable through the weird nut in the choke mechanism and adjust accordingly.  The only problem with the 60" cable is that it's much too long and does need trimming down.  I haven't got a suitable tool to do this at the moment that will cut the cable without crushing and fraying the end so for now the excess is threaded out of the way down the back of the engine and I'll deal with it later.  A 50-55" cable would be a better fit.

27494304877_d4915d1098_b.jpg20180526-06 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Then time to test.  Pull out the cable and see if it locks properly... and it does!

27494304987_ec02ae50ca_b.jpg20180526-07 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Unlock the cable and push it back in to make sure it does so smoothly and the light goes out... and it does!

27494304847_053f5eb3a2_b.jpg20180526-08 by Angyl Roper, on Flickr

 

Operation is much smoother and now I know I can safely disconnect throttle and choke cable to rebuild the carb without fear of the cables fraying and being impossible to reinstall.  Less than a tenner to sort and the choke pull looks nicer inside the car since the insert in the old one had broken and come out.  It's nice when a job goes smoothly like that.


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#3179 OFFLINE   Eddie Honda

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:01 PM

I haven't got a suitable tool to do this at the moment that will cut the cable without crushing and fraying the end


9562190-01-3.jpg
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#3180 OFFLINE   vulgalour

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 03:09 PM

They look like bicycle brake cable cutters, which is what I was going to use.







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