After three years... 216SLi - 25/2 - behaving itself

[KruJoe]

Good news on the compression test lads!

The rubbery gunk could well be some gasket-in-a-tube type stuff from a bodged replacement of the water pump.

 

I've never had to fit a new heater matrix on one of these, but I believe they're a right bastard to do, properly invasive.

[oldcars]

Good news so far, i have that rubbery much in the Reliant's cooling system, once it was all cleaned all was good.

[Lacquer Peel]

Avoid the Rover engines, Honda engines never go wrong etc.

Good luck Ghosty, it sounds like it's been the victim of shoddy maintenance and a thorough going over will sort it out.

[Ghosty]

How not to gasket.

There's another piece with an angle in it that matches the shape of our spare water pump.

[Guest Hooli]

Looks like spagetti.

 

I think it'd be worth taking all the hoses off & flushing it get all that out. Especially that valve someone mentioned earlier as it looks small enough to get jammed easy enough.

[Jim Bell]

.

 

 

Hope theres not too much more of that shit in there. Good fixings!

[Ghosty]

No progress made, compression is OK, and cooling system seems OK. Test run: ran it for a bit and it was fine, then the temp suddenly shot up again, and the above silicone was in the return pipe from the top of the rad to the expansion tank. We'd already removed a piece from exactly the same place. That's 3 pieces of silicone we've found in the cooling system, and the water pump is a big suspect. We have a good used OE Honda one to fit.

Heater matrix seems OK but the heater isn't that hot.

 

Verdict:

 

 

Off with the head, and change water pump while we're there.

I've loosened the crank pulley bolt, accessed through the NSF wheelarch - luckily it wasn't too tight, showing it's been off before.

 

Ideally, I want to try and do a head gasket swap before the 29th as that's when the grace period ends on my insurance. The sooner the better, as soon as I get the gasket set.

Calling all shiters - who's available to help out, and when? The only day I can't do is Sunday.

[Ghosty]

Thanks to Mally, 3VOM and strangeangel for coming over today.

Chez Ghosty earlier:

 

[vulgalour]

International Shite Rescue.

[Dave_Q]

BREAKING: property values in Stalybridge plummet 50%, Curtain twitching up 300%.

[3VOM]

Now I've had time to have a further think about this, I am more inclined to think it is the water pump. I suspect if you take it off it will 1 - be a cheap eurocraparts white box special and 2 - full of silicone. Other evidence is that when the coolant was being bled there wasn't much pressure behind it.

I'd like more info on how the cooling system works too as I think on two occasions when there were problems it coincided with silicone being stuck in the small bore "bypass" hose return.

[Ghosty]

Tempted to agree with you, it'd make sense. 

Gasket set is on order now as it's a 'might as well' job - half the gubbins for the head is already off if we're doing the water pump.

 

Having given it a bit of a drive about now, it's ace... when it works. Proper old car feel, complete with random rattles and creaks, but just enough creature comforts for modern motoring.

 

At least I fixed one thing today - changed a broken reverse light bulb.

[KruJoe]

Good work lads, I have a warm feeling in my loins.

[oldcars]

Thanks to Mally, 3VOM and strangeangel for coming over today.

Chez Ghosty earlier:

 

Is that a Rickman ranger there? That and a BX what a class view from your front room.

[Supernaut]

A BX on 205 1.6GTi alloys, no less! I'm envious.

[Ghosty]

That is indeed a Ranger, it's Mally's. 2.0 Pinto iirc.

[HillmanImp]

Good work lads, I have a warm feeling in my loins.

 

Have you pissed yourself again?

[Mally]

Right, my take on it.

Compression was 160/165 on all 4 cylinders.

We took out the new thermostat, flushed the rad, block and heater, all flowed well.

Cut the middle out of the old stat and fitted that to the engine temporarily.

Refilled with water, bled, ran the engine, bled a few times. Removed piece of silicone from return pipe at header tank.

Lots of steam from exhaust when running but temp stayed normal, radiator was warm all over.

Did 3 or 4 laps round the block, steam improved, I mean less not more!

Around this time I had to depart.

It seems the temp shot up on the 5th lap and more silicone was found.

 

In view of the fact that the water pump needs investigation and it needs a new timing belt, it seems logical to change the head gasket at the same time to be sure.

I also think all the rubber hoses need to be removed and checked for silicone.

The  rad hoses did seem to be pressurising, perhaps because of the silicone blockage?

Providing the head is not warped or cracked a gasket and pump could be all it needs.

Getting all the silicone out of the system may be troublesome.

It is a nice car and hopefully all will be well.

 

28 Jan is probably my next free day, but if you fix an earlier date I'll do my best.

I will have a read through the very helpful  instructions, but don't rely on me for the timing.

Should have left my socket set with you, sorry never thought. I do have a torque wrench for the head if you need one.

[3VOM]

Quick note while I'm reading that .pdf - that "spare" bolt you found looks like item 31 in the .pdf.

[strangeangel]

What Mally and 3VOM said... I too will be very interested to see if the new water pump has indeed been gunged in with silicone.

 

There should be a special place in hell reserved for those who use bath sealant in lieu of gaskets

 

I'm starting a new job next week, so not sure of days off etc., but count me as a provisional YES for the HG wrangling sessions.

[bub2006]

I'll try to get over on the next day too

[Conrad D. Conelrad]

 

What Mally and 3VOM said... I too will be very interested to see if the new water pump has indeed been gunged in with silicone.

 

There should be a special place in hell reserved for those who use bath sealant in lieu of gaskets

 

[explosive-cabbage]

Sheep attacking a Lada, and a floating Rover in the background. This has to be a calendar shot.

 

It is! May 2017

 

I am around home most days now, so give us a shout the day before and I can help you pull bits off the R8 in the feild. I would strongly reccomend just stripping as much as you can off it, anything that bolts on, pull it off. It will be going to the scrapyard in the next month or so so might as well grab as many free bits as possible! Pick up a few cardboard fruit boxes at Morrisons checkouts and I can give you an afternoon stripping parts!

 

Tidy car by the way!

[Bag'O'Spanners]

Just a thought, tell me to eff off and I won't take offence. This is how i'd do it (car mechanic in sad previous life for 17 years) but in reality you'll know better from actually being with the car.

 

If the rad is getting warm and the heater is only lukewarm (silicunt silicone blocking this?), might be worth popping both the heater hoses and bridging with a bit of pipe (temporarily-like) and running it up then. Sometimes if a matrix is marginal it can be a right cant to bleed.

 

After confirmation, pop said pipes back on and fill her up, heater on full and rev the bum off it until the fan cuts in and the heater gets hot. Second thoughts, with the centre of the stat out it won't get hot enough to get the fan running due to slow heat transfer. I've worked on these engines a lot in the past, if memory serves me right, never had a head gasket let go, not saying it isn't though. It may be worth whacking a block sniffer on it as mentioned before taking the head of as these engines take serious abuse before showing wear. I'm surprised my AA didn't do that as a minimum, last four years on cars were as a RAC patrol and I would have had a bollocking if I hadn't. 

 

Best of luck chaps, really admire the way Ghosty is being helped out by the forum (am in Essex otherwise I'd pop by).

 

As a sad edit, I had to rebuild a W123 280SE Mercedes engine once, due to some nasty orange instant gasket used to reseal the cam cover blocking its oil pump strainer....

Edited January 18, 2017 by Bag'O'Spanners

[Dave_Q]

I'm gonna go against the flow and say I'm not sure on changing the HG "just in case". It seems like a water pump / coolant flow problem to me, although admittedly the steam from the exhaust is pretty damning.

 

I would be flushing the bejesus out of the cooling system, including matrix, rad, and that throttle body heater thing somebody posted up. Flush it all with water then maybe refill with AS favourite dishwasher tablets and do a few laps.

 

Its not the end of the world to take off and reuse a recent cambelt to do the HG if required later, I just wouldn't want to tear into a potentially OK engine until I was 100% sure it was HGF.

[3VOM]

If the rad is getting warm and the heater is only lukewarm (silicunt silicone blocking this?), might be worth popping both the heater hoses and bridging with a bit of pipe (temporarily-like) and running it up then. Sometimes if a matrix is marginal it can be a right cant to bleed.

The heater was the source of one of the bits of silicone. It flushed through OK after. As I recall it, Ghosty took the car round the block a few times. By about lap 4 or 5 it was looking normal and not smoking/steaming. He had to come in on lap 6 as it was showing the temp up towards the red and everything was too hot under the bonnet. But, this was also the point we found the next bit of silicone stuck in the narrow return pipe on the header tank.

I think the heater was OK. I recall Ghosty saying it was working, that some foam was loose in the ducting and that, as we were running a modified thermostat or none at all, then the heater temperature was reasonable.

Anyone know what pressure the coolant system is supposed to run at?

[Bag'O'Spanners]

Around 1 bar relief pressure. It could just be cavitating (combustion fumes in the coolant and air locking, hence the block tester). Were the hoses rock hard?

[strangeangel]

Were the hoses rock hard?

 

I don't recall, but we did notice that the inlet hose was properly hot, while the return was barely even lukewarm.

 

(this was after Ghosty had done his test laps)

[Bag'O'Spanners]

I don't recall, but we did notice that the inlet hose was properly hot, while the return was barely even lukewarm.

 

Indicates you are on the right lines with poor circulation then. 

 

I know it sounds obvious, but the bleed valve was opened with the engine running? Also, if I had a bugger to bleed, I'd raise the expansion tank to above the level of the heater/engine, they are pretty low on those Rover installations. 

[beko1987]

This thread gives me a warm fuzzy feeling!