invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Remspoor]

Another gem.

Published in 2009

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/army-remembers-its-largest-single-loss-of-life-in-northern-ireland/28492713.html

Taken from the slideshow at the top of the page. Titled Labour exchange in Great Patrick Street. The queue for unemployment benefit is the biggest seen for a long time. Ulster Workers Council Strike 22/05/74

Looks like reg EPO 775J

[LightBulbFun]

42 minutes ago, Remspoor said:

Another gem.

Published in 2009

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/army-remembers-its-largest-single-loss-of-life-in-northern-ireland/28492713.html

Taken from the slideshow at the top of the page. Titled Labour exchange in Great Patrick Street. The queue for unemployment benefit is the biggest seen for a long time. Ulster Workers Council Strike 22/05/74

Looks like reg EPO 775J

Oh nicely found not a photo I had seen before  seems like Acedes missing chunks out of their front bumper was a thing in NI!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=566890147204026&id=225424414683936

registration mark will be EPD775J  part of the EPD751J-EPD950J block of AC Acedes Mk15 Model 67's

 

[Remspoor]

3 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

seems like Acedes missing chunks out of their front bumper was a thing in NI!

An effect of the The Troubles ?

[LightBulbFun]

"Hey Dez! I spotted these lightbulbs on eBay, seller is reluctant to ship them, but I noticed they are not all that far away from you, perhaps your interested in grabbing them yourself"

said a good fellow collector, friend to me, "Ooh thanks!" I said! theres some very interesting Japanese discharge lamps there, I can just take a taxi ride over, pop em all in a bag and and back again in another taxi

get there, turns out there was a *bit* more than the 5 or 10 the seller said there where....

this was about 1 box full, there where 5 boxes full, but I could not just leave them behind

so of course I had them all  and they even knew a guy with a van! to get them home, was not quite expecting a luton van to show up mind!

but hey my first time a passenger in one so that was fun

 

there all home safe now, suitably blocking up both upstairs and downstairs corridors, once I have recovered from this whole ordeal, ill get them shoved away, and then I can start thinking about sorting/organising them all (some are used some are new, some are clearly fucked etc)

its a right mix of bulbs, all Japanese domestic market mainly, so fuck knows how they get over here! but I aint complaining, there all very interesting and quite rare types because of that so I am very pleased to have them in the collection   

 

I thought I would post about it here, because it felt very autoshite, with how quickly it escalated  I mean it very much turned into a collection caper once a van ended up getting hired LOL

 

[High Jetter]

An expensive day, then? Will you flog on those you don't want or need to defray your outlay?

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, High Jetter said:

An expensive day, then? Will you flog on those you don't want or need to defray your outlay?

fairly pricey! but the price per bulb, even if half of them are dead, works out pretty well, to a few quid per bulb, just one of those big ones in the shot, cost £150-£200 to buy from a wholesaler etc

https://www.easy-lightbulbs.com/products/iwasaki-mt2000b-bh-l-2000-watt-metal-halide-tubular

and there are at 3 un-used ones in that group shot alone  (as well as 4 fucked ones LOL)

 

but I am not really planning to proactively sell any, because eBay is a pain in the arse, and packing and sending lightbulbs is a lot of physical work I just dont have the pain-budget for sadly

however if a fellow collector approached me wanting to buy some off me then id be happy work something out, or better yet do a trade for some other rare lightbulbs, thats generally what we like to do  

its one of the many reasons I really want REV back, is I have a few good friends in the lighting community id like to finally meet up with and do some trades  

 

I mean its like the Invacar stuff I really am not in this for any sort of monetary gain, I am just in it because I genuinely do love my Invacars/lightbulbs! 

and if I see a bunch of Invacars or rare Lightbulbs needing rescuing, well as you can see I dont fuck around  

 

 

it really is a funky bundle of bulbs, its like someone ram-raided the Metal halide section of the Iwasaki catalog

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Documents/Catalogues/Iwasaki - Catalogue - 2008 IBD.pdf

and even then thats an english catalog, theres a bunch of really odd-ball Japanese only lamps in here that aint listed there 

 

like a whole bunch of these JDM High pressure sodium lamps of the unique to Japan 40W rating, 45V 1.2A with internal FEC ignitor, they have really dinky arc tubes! 

https://www.iwasaki.co.jp/lighting/support/products/detail.php?ItemNo=NHT40LVS

I am really looking forward to unboxing and sorting through everything! and these all being Iwasaki lamps mean they are high quality as fuck (Iwasaki was like the Japanese Rolls Royce of Discharge lamp manufacturers, their lamps where always extremely high quality/well put together)

 

although I am not looking forward to figuring out where I am going to stash them all! 

[barrett]

What can you tell me about this one, then? I've done zero research but have never heard of an EC before. The vehicle is early '30s, apparently, but the photograph is obviously much later than that ( possibly 1970s) so I wonder if this is still out there somewhere?

[LightBulbFun]

54 minutes ago, barrett said:

What can you tell me about this one, then? I've done zero research but have never heard of an EC before. The vehicle is early '30s, apparently, but the photograph is obviously much later than that ( possibly 1970s) so I wonder if this is still out there somewhere?

to be honest I have not a clue either

but it goes well with this one that funnily was sent to me by Adam just a few days ago

http://archiveshop.northyorks.gov.uk/latest-products/BU09536.html

WV11 August 1931 issue, so it very much of the same time period

 

I know Harding Made a range of 4 wheeled carriages during this period of time, so thats who I think of first seeing these 2, but I dont know the exact ins and outs of which models existed and what they looked like

but might be a good starting point for research?

 

I do wonder if yours is even an invalid carriage? it looks quite big for one, but then again its got those hand levers which may imply hand controls?

[somewhatfoolish]

13 hours ago, barrett said:

What can you tell me about this one, then? I've done zero research but have never heard of an EC before. The vehicle is early '30s, apparently, but the photograph is obviously much later than that ( possibly 1970s) so I wonder if this is still out there somewhere?

Would the castrol sign help date it? I've never seen one like that.

[egg]

I like the way lightbulbs have a 'JDM scene' just like cars

[LightBulbFun]

11 hours ago, egg said:

I like the way lightbulbs have a 'JDM scene' just like cars

its not quite a full blown scene, as just in general Japanese domestic lamps are quite rare in collections, just because, its just not easy getting lightbulbs from Japan, you dont often find them on eBay or anywhere outside of Japan really, and I am not aware of any Japanise collectors full stop, I mean I think there are some, but none on any of the major english speaking sites

but your right in that they certainly have a load of very obscure and whacky lamps, of all sorts of funny shapes and sizes. weird wattages etc that never existed outside of Japan

which makes them very interesting for me at least from a collectors POV  (and as suchcertainly given the opportunity, a lot of us collectors would happily add such lamps to their collection)

which I guess is the same reason JDM cars a thing, (tho really I dont get most of them I mean the Autoshite ones like the Kei cars I get/like, but the performance machines just dont tickle me, I dont get the hype so to speak over the skylines etc LOL)

 

but speaking of Japanese bulbs, I sorted through the first box, started with the smaller square box, because it felt unusually heavy for its size and I was curious just *what* was inside 

turns out, it was a thin veneer of Just* 12 M270CELSH-W/BUDP lamps https://www.iwasaki.co.jp/lighting/support/products/detail.php?ItemNo=M270CELSH-W%2FBUD

(these are 270W ceramic metal halide lamp, designed to run off 300W Mercury lamp control gear/retrofit a 300W Mercury lamp for improved efficiency/energy saving and light output and colour quality, the 300W mercury lamp size itself is a Japanese only thing, so its double obscure!)

 

covering a metric shit-load of the Aforementioned JDM 40W SON lamps, doing some quick maths based on the weight of the box load, and weight of the individual lamp, I think there are about 95 in here? LOL

although somehow it does not quite look it, but unless im being an idiot, thats how many the maths say there are! each lamp weighs somewhere between 65 grams and 73~ grams (data-sheet vs kitchen scales) and the whole box together weighs about 6.9-7Kg

so 6900/73=94.5 lamps right? LOL

 

its funny I imported these very special 3 colour F15T8's fluorescent tubes from Japan a few months ago, and I almost imported some of these 40W SON's along with them! but did not in the end I mean I was going to but turned out it was an ended listed https://zenmarket.jp/en/auction.aspx?itemCode=q1021583260  a blessing in disguise, as now I have 95 of the fuckers LOL 

(wow the Autoshite photo compression algorithm hates this photo LOL) as an aside these tubes are a prime example of the weird and whacky lamps that where produced by Japanese lamp manufactures, outside of laboratory samples and the  special tubes for the late Queen's coronation in 1953, no one ever produced multiple-coloured fluorescent tubes like this (because they are a right bastard to make) 

 

 

and finally going back to the box of bulbs, sprinkled throughout for seasoning in the box was a random selection of smaller Quartz/Ceramic metal halide lamps (as well as 2 White SON's)

 

so first impressions so far are pretty good! and this was just the smaller box, I know the larger boxes contain many more lamps of even more variety  

[egg]

24 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

but your right in that they certainly have a load of very obscure and whacky lamps, of all sorts of funny shapes and sizes. weird wattages etc that never existed outside of Japan

just seen standard Japanese supply voltage is 100v - cor, even lower than the States.

[LightBulbFun]

On 12/07/2023 at 16:08, egg said:

just seen standard Japanese supply voltage is 100v - cor, even lower than the States.

and just to add to the fun of it half the Grid is 50Hz and the other half of it is 60Hz! 

 

the 100V mains is why those 40W HPS lamps have 45V 1.2A electrical specifications, a US (120V mains) 35W HPS lamp runs at 52V 0.83A and a European (230V mains) 35W HPS lamp runs at 85V 0.53A 

for a simple choke ballast setup, everything is at its most optimal/efficient when the discharge lamp has a voltage drop of roughly half of the mains voltage, hence why all the low wattage sodium lamps have different electrical specifications

when you get into higher wattage lamps, and also metal halide and mercury lamps, the ratings become a bit more unified, for example a 400W mercury lamp runs at 135V 3.25A no matter where in the world your at 

(this is because you cant satisfactorily, for other technical reasons make a a low voltage Mercury lamp so in low voltage countries like the US and Japan they all run off of auto-transformer ballasts, special ballasts that also step up the mains voltage to 200V-450V depending on the lamp etc)

[egg]

as another aside, are you having to pay import duty on the stuff you've got from Japan direct?

[LightBulbFun]

14 minutes ago, egg said:

as another aside, are you having to pay import duty on the stuff you've got from Japan direct?

I dont know exactly the only thing i have ever directly gone out of my way to import from Japan are those special F15T8's which I used a 3rd party handling/shipping forwarder for, and they took care of everything for me, I mean there is a price breakdown and it does mention a goods and services tax, but I dont know if thats a Japan's version of VAT, or its an amount to take care of Duty etc

 

 

[brummiejon]

Anyone seen or need this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364345334245?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=2Tiy24smQy2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=BiNzBpnaQa6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[LightBulbFun]

19 minutes ago, brummiejon said:

Anyone seen or need this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364345334245?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=2Tiy24smQy2&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=BiNzBpnaQa6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I have seen it crop up a few times over the years, always the same one, never any other carriages oddly enough, but i find it interesting how its from Lucas directly, makes me wonder what/if any other IC wiring diagrams they may have had/done?

[LightBulbFun]

managed to tackle the first of of the large rectangular boxes 

a less fruitful harvest this time, but still some nice lamps  

a few more of the Teflon coated M270CELSH's where present, but also a singular non teflon coated one, that has a nice un-tarnished arc tube, I dont think its ever been lit/used although slightly concerning that it has an "X" sharpied on the side! hopefully it does work, as I much prefer it to the teflon lamps

otherwise it was mainly a pile of fairly well used green 250W metal halide lamps, green, as in they are designed to emit solid green light, I know theres a few unused one of these in this lot, so I am looking forward to unearthing those  

the big lamp right at the back is a nice 940W High pressure sodium lamp, quite the contrast to the baby 40W High pressure sodium lamps previously (there where also 3 more of those in the 2nd box for good measure LOL)

(and the lamp on the bottom right with the white heat-reflective coating on the ends of its arc tube, next to the small pile of 70W CMH lamps that was also present, is a 200W Metal halide lamp for 200W mercury control gear, again another Japanese only wattage rating)

sadly said big lamp has taken a nock at some point and its internal ignitor has fallen to bits, I am hoping it will work with an external ignitor instead, the rest of the lamp looks good and un-used, it is 940W rather then 1000W because its a special sort designed to replace a 1000W mercury lamp (normally sodium lamps require their own ballasts, and cannot run on Mercury control gear, but special types have been developed that can and it is one such example, most unsual in hows its tubular shaped, most mercury retrofit lamps tend to be elliptical shaped like the MV lamp they are replacing)

and finally in the box was 5 2000W metal halide big beasties  2 of them where very well used and not photographed here, but the 2 of them here have only seen moderate usage, and the one foremost, is completely unused/NOS  

the used ones are curiously Ushio branded, although look almost identical in contraction to the front most lamp which is an Iwasaki (eye) lamp, so I have to wonder if the Ushio's are just rebranded eye lamps 

 

so thats 2 boxes down, 3 more to go! which I am hoping ill be able to tackle in the coming days  

[LightBulbFun]

got Box 3 sorted out, this one was a bit of a let down, it was mostly full of Teflon Coated M270CELSH's like the first box had, but most had their centre contact broken off weirdly

of the box this was the good lamps or the unique lamps, mostly more 270W's but also a 400W green, and a sadly very fucked 360W CMH lamp (for retrofitting 400W mercury lamps) 

hopefully the last 2 boxes will yield better than this! I mean they should as theres a number of lamps that I saw in person at the shop/that where taken out and put on the table for me to look at that I have yet to unearth, so those should hopefully be hiding in the final 2 boxes!

 

[LightBulbFun]

after the let down that was Box 3, I set to tackling box 4, a moderate success with this one after Box 3, but not quite as many good bulbs as I would of liked, it was mostly a load of well used Green 250W metal halide lamps

(there are a few from the previous boxes also, but I really do wonder what someone needed so many green coloured lightbulbs for! I am all set for St Patrick's day thats for sure!)

and a bunch load of 70W 4300K and 3200/3500K CMH metal halide lamps

one thing thats curious about these, is a lot of these Iwasaki lamps have UV filter in the form of a zinc oxide coating on the outer-bulb, thats why this lamp for example, has an iridescent look to it 

but curiously on most of the 4300K ones that coating has all gone cloudy, I wonder why that is! something to research/figure out!

in this box also where a few good-unique items, like this 180W (200W retrofit) CMH lamp, again on this one its UV filter coating has gone cloudy for some reason, but the lamp itself looks fine

 

also present a 250W Green metal halide lamp, that looks to be NOS/unused which is nice to find after all the well used ones! I am hoping there are at least a couple more of these in the last box!

and this lovely NOS/unused 175W Metal halide lamp, standard US M57 spec lamp, but a nice high quality Japanese Iwasaki one  

and there where also a couple more 200W Quartz Metal halide teflon coated lamps as seen from box 2 a few posts up, low hours on these which is nice  

and also yet a few more 40W HPS lamps where present! its hilarious how many of those there are!  thankfully not too many more 270W CMH's where in this 4th box,  as I have enough of those of those! (I generally prefer the Quartz metal halide lamps vs Ceramic metal halide ones and I much prefer clear lamps vs the teflon coated lamps) 

I dont mind the 100+ 40W SON's because they are nice and cute LOL

 

I think all the good things I had spotted at the store are hopefully/should be hiding in the 5th and final box,  because theres still at least couple more  2000W lamps as well as some interesting 1500W lamps that where present at the store which can be seen in my initial photographs, but I have yet to unearth!

but thats for tomorrow  

 

[LightBulbFun]

so got the 5th and final box tackled, as I had hoped this is where the goodies I Was hoping for where hiding in there

namely the 2nd of the NOS 2000W Eye metal halide lamps, 3 more NOS 250W green Metal halide lamps

and this lovely NOS 1500W *low voltage* metal halide, this one I had read about in the Iwasaki catalog in years previous and thought thats really unusual, id love to get one, but knew it would be really obscure, however here is one  its really obscure in that its a 130V 14A lamp, pretty much every other single 1500W metal halide lamp out there is a 250V-6.7A/268V-6.2A lamp, so I do wonder what the motivation behind this Low voltage lamp was   

heres a group panorama showing the best selection from all the boxes, all the ones which are New/NOS or very low hours

or most of the best selection  theres a couple more id of included but I have already stashed them away slightly LOL 

and theres also a good selection of small tubular Metal halide lamps in various states some of which are quite nice

and of course I have all the 40W SON's I have so many of those now its hilarious  

 

all in all I am pretty happy with the haul, I do wish there where less used M270CELSH and less Used M250LE/G lamps, I have a good 15-30 of each, that id of preferred where different lamps/NOS 

but as above its still a good haul when you consider all the NOS lamps I did get and all the 40W SONs  still works out to just a few quid per bulb even if I take out all the duff/naff ones

 

now comes to testing everything! well ok not *everything* I am not kidding when I say there are 100+ 40W SON's so I doubt ill test of all of those, but certainly some of them will be lit, and certainly most of what you see in the panorama will be getting lit as well as some of the other lamps

and I am looking forward to that, especially the big ones and the green ones and the 40W SONs  

[egg]

1 hour ago, LightBulbFun said:

very low hours

ok question, how do you know they've only been lightly, excuse the pun, used?

[High Jetter]

He has one of those things, you know, that he plugs them into and it tells him.

 

(No, I've no idea either and wondered myself reading that - filament discolouration?)

[somewhatfoolish]

Tungsten lamps get discoloured after first light up, probably something similar with sodium lamps.

[LightBulbFun]

3 hours ago, egg said:

ok question, how do you know they've only been lightly, excuse the pun, used?

the primary method is by how clear the arc tube of the lamp is or is not

the arc tube is the small (or not so small in the case of the larger lamps!) capsual looking thing inside the lamp

see how in this NOS/lightly used lamp there is minimal blackening, its nice and clear, literally you can see through it  

now do you see the 2 little "points" inside the arc tube? those are whats called the electrodes, a literal electric arc is struck between those 2 electrodes and thats what (with the addition of a cocktail of chemistry and inert gas filling) produces the light of the lamp

but just like in welding for example, or with a spark plug, these electrodes wear down overtime, and sputter, and coat the arc tube, turning it black, and this black coating obsorbs light, as is one of the reasons a lamp's light output drops over it life (this is called the lumen depreciation curve)

see for example in this lamp which is a well used version of the lamp above how blackened the arc tube is

and this erosion/sputtering of the electrodes plus in the case of metal halide lamps other chemical reactions etc, will eventually lead to to total failure of the lamp

but going back around its this blackening, if its present and if so how much of it is present, that tells me if a lamp is new/NOS/lightly used, somewhat used, or completely FUBAR 

like these 3 end of life 1500W lamps that where with the new one, notice the vast difference in arc tube condition!

but take for example these 3 2000W metal halide lamps, the one closest to the camera is completely new never lit look at how clear the arc tube is, while the 2 behind are used, somewhat, but nowhere near end of life, note the slight blackening starting at the ends, but how its nowhere near as bad as previous examples!

3 hours ago, High Jetter said:

He has one of those things, you know, that he plugs them into and it tells him.

 

(No, I've no idea either and wondered myself reading that - filament discolouration?)

I do actually  in-fact just now, because I happen to already have the control-gear out for it, I lit up the solitary 400W Green lamp that was present, as can be seen from the arc tube, this one has sadly seen a fair amount of use and is nearing end of life

but after a few attempts from the starter and some rumbling of the ballast, it fired up

and ran up, yep, very green! (and again another photo the compression algorithm seems to hate LOL)

but I could tell from its electrical properties also, that it was past its best, notice how high the arc voltage is, it should only be 130V, but because of wear and tear it goes up to 145V

the lamp was also visibly quite unstable at times, shimmering and flickering slightly

and you can see because of how blackened the arc tube is, that it absorbs a lot of light and gets extra warm as a result, this shot taken just after I killed power (although metal halide lamps do always run quite hot)

and this is another way one can tell how happy or unhappy a lamp is, by measuring its electrical characteristics

but as above, just a physical examination can often tell you all you need to know  

3 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Tungsten lamps get discoloured after first light up, probably something similar with sodium lamps.

indeed that can be the case, especially with Metal halide lamps, you can tell by how the metal halides are distributed in the arc, if a lamp really has never been lit at all, or if a lamp is New/little-used, but has been lit before, as once a metal halide lamp is lit all the halides will usually move to the lowest/coldest spot in the arc tube

for example this picture was taken before I had lit this particular lamp, fresh out of the sleeve

and then here it is, just after I had switched it off (you can still see the top electrode glowing)

see how all the halide salts have moved down the arc tube to the bottom electrode  

(and with some lamps, there may be sputtering just from factory testing that will clear up after first lighting,) 

 

hopefully this all makes sense

 

[egg]

There's a sad sort of poetry to it, the gradual blackening leading to the end of life, like a human waiting to end up in the nursing home. 

[High Jetter]

Fuck. Me. Why aren't you earning fortunes from all the knowledge you have?

Edit, sorry not you, egg - your post snuck in before mine

[LightBulbFun]

13 minutes ago, egg said:

There's a sad sort of poetry to it, the gradual blackening leading to the end of life, like a human waiting to end up in the nursing home. 

until finally at end of life, if not swapped out in time they violently explode! (metal halide lightbulbs that is! hopefully not anyones grandma!) which is why most metal halide lamps rated for use in non-enclosed/open fixtures have a thick-walled quartz blast shield built into them, to contain the arc tube exposition and stop red hot bits of lamp raining down on people!

 

[JJ0063]

Surely with all that lot you’ve just bought it’d be a great idea to split and resell a load to generate some funds to put towards repairs to the car? Seems like an obvious move!

[SmokinWaffle]

18 minutes ago, chancer said:

Not sarcasm. Real life bud. Whole nation is in crisis an we have this shit going on. Im not sad, but i am angry. I work hard, very hard actually, to the point where im damaging my body just to scrape by. But yeah, you batter in and endulge those who can 'enjoy their life' at our expense

Get a grip on yourself. You have zero idea how hard anyone else works on this forum. Stop pushing your anger onto others - it's not healthy.

It seems like you're going through some stuff - and I hope it gets better - but this isn't the outlet for it, or the way to deal with it.