Licence Q: Towing stuff

[Pillock]

I might have a need to use something van-shaped to tow a trailer. I don't know whether my licence (straight post-97 licence) allows it.

 

So I went on the gov.UK site, and now I have a headache and no better clue.

 

Does anyone know if a 1997 licence can tow a two-axle box trailer approx 10ft long and weighing about a tonne? My licence states B,B1,fklnp but has no crude drawings of a trailer.

[Richard]

As far as I'm aware you are restricted to a gross train weight of 3500kg and you go by the trailer's plated maximum weight, not its current weight. Based on that I'd say you probably can't.

[spike60]

Mine has BE which is little drawing of car and trailer. My son's is B, he can tow a small trailer whereas I can tow a much heavier one. Can't remember the details but it looks like no for you I'd reckon. We were looking at doing a little hillclimbing a couple of years ago and I looked into it, basically he can tow a camping trailer, anything more you need the E as well.

[Pillock]

Cheers chaps! That's a good result as I didn't want to, but I now have a legitimate reason instead of just ignoring texts.

[Micrashed]

A black fine point Sharpie and you can draw a little trailer on your licence if you want.

 

I drew a tash and eye patch on my wifes. She hasnt noticed yet.

[wuvvum]

My understanding is that you can tow a trailer without the +E on your licence if the gross weight of the trailer is less than the unladen weight of the towing vehicle.  That might be bollocks though.

[Richard]

Yes, but only up to a gross train weight of 3500kg.

[dollywobbler]

I don't get it. This is really odd.

 

If you passed your driving test after 1 January 1997 and have an ordinary category B (car) licence, you can:

• drive a vehicle up to 3.5 tonnes or 3,500kg MAM towing a trailer of up to 750kg MAM
• tow a trailer over 750kg MAM as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg

So, you can't tow a trailer over 750kg apart from the fact that you can. How does that make sense?!

[RichL]

I'm saying no. I've done some research into all this towing and it's a nightmare. You have the same license as me, so as long as the Total Train Weight (MAM) of the tow vehicle/trailer combo does not exceed 3500kg you're OK.

 

You can, however, tow a trailer which is less than 750kg with a tow vehicle that is 3500kg.

[Micrashed]

Well yes. You can tow a trailer of up to 750kgs with a car weighing 3500kgs - total = 4250kgs

 

Or

 

You can tow a trailer over 750kgs so long as the total weight of trailer and car is less than 3500kgs

so, car of 1500kgs and trailer of 1100kgs would be OK

 

 

I think....

 

EDIT - areses, beaten to it.

[Pillock]

No wonder the VOSA chaps and police have such a hard time! I found the bit above, then it said something like if I was lacking the E entitlement to follow a link which had sod all to do with my licence.

 

Plus if it's trailer plated weight, not actual trailer weight, behind a transit it's gonna top 3500kgs I reckon. So I'm going to add the CBA entitlement and tell them no.

[Jon]

As far as I worked it out (when it applied to me before I emigrated), my post-97 licence meant I could tow an un-braked trailer (naturally 750kg or below) with any car, or a car and trailer with the combined gross weight not exceeding 3500kg. However, this figure relates to the plated maximum permissible weight limits of the car and trailer in question, which meant that in effect, towing a caravan would have been out of the question, unless it was an extremely lightweight one and the car wasn't too heavy, or capable of becoming so when loaded. In all, it was just not worth trying. My brother (pre-97 licence) used his Mazda B2500 to town my Imp on a car trailer and I'm certain that the weight on the scales would have been just shy of 3500 kg but the permissible gross train weight would have been something like 5 tonnes, so way over the scale.

 

At the time, what narked me most was that I had my Class C (old Class 2) lorry licence and he didn't; therefore, taking the effort to pass further tests means that I'm deemed responsible enough to be in charge of 20+ tonnes of single vehicle but not 5 tonnes spread over two. Now take a look at this scenario:

 

 

In order to legally drive the above, I'd have to have TWO further endorsements added to my UK licence: the first for gross train weight exceeding 3500kg and the second for driving a vehicle with more than 8 seats!! Stick them on the back of a big enough lorry and I'd be fine, though....

 

 

In conclusion: post-1997 EU licences suck ass.

[jonny69]

So how exactly does one get the heavier towing entitlement added to your licence?

[Volksy]

For towing you need to take another test. We have this all the time at work as the Bungee rig involves towing a trailor. We really struggle to find people with the relevent licences and it cost us a fortune to put people through these additional tests for vans, minibuses and trailors.

People generally fail these tests, but not on anything related to driving a bigger vehicle, or towing, but on general driving errors.

[scruff]

It's not cheap, assuming you don't need extra lessons you are still looking at £500+!!

I decided the money would be better spent towards HGV 1 & 2.

[Jon]

In a roundabout way, the licencing changes actually had a positive effect on me, despite my previous post. When I worked at Royal Mail, I self funded my Class C with a 3 and a half day course taken during some time off work. All of a sudden, I was able to work around the clock, so netted loads of overtime driving 7.5 tonne wagons around rural parts of North and East Yorkshire, plus enjoyable drives down to Daventry, done mostly at an indicated 125km/h on cruise control (this was prior to 1st April 2007, before RM had the 48hr weekly work time regulations for drivers imposed and all 7.5 tonners governed to 56mph). 

 

Having earned back the initial outlay many times over, I eventually went self employed as TV/film crew and was very much in demand, since I could drive the 7.5 tonne camera trucks and assist on set also (grips dept.), thus appealing greatly to production, since it saved them a few quid. I had a virtual monopoly in the area for a while, before moving here. However, I didn't have much to do with the digital tachographs and by all accounts, it's a bit of a nightmare complying to the regulations (gaining access to machines for monthly downloads of cards, etc.) when your workload is so sporadic, with perhaps weeks of downtime between longer jobs. Plus, the supporting paperwork was getting to be a nightmare but that's really going off topic now, so I'll shut up.

[Bobthebeard]

^^.... No, no... Carry on! Sounds like you may have some interesting tales to tell.

[anonymous user]

My elderly aunt, who fortunately no longer drives, was very concerned when she recieved her first updated licence on reaching 70. She actually bothered to read it and all the bits of paper that came with it and was frightened by all the entitlements on it, telling us "but I only want to drive a car". It took a while to convince her that nobody was going to make her drive a 7.5 tonne lorry, steam-roller, motorcycle, or any of the other groups added to her licence.

 

I was surprised that she had read the bumph that came with the new licence as she had never read the Highway Code; I don't think she ever took a formal driving test, she was issued with a licence during the war, to drive a GPO van after they found that she could drive a tractor.  She had kept her licence going but rarely drove again until the 1970's, when my grandfather was forced to hand in his licence. I think they based Thora Hird's driving style in Last of the Summer Wine on her.

[barefoot]

Similarly, I had an ancient Aunt who applied for a licence as soon as you had to have one.

As the years progressed, additional tests were added for things like HGV and PSV, but because she'd obtained the license practically on day one, she always had the entitlement to drive articulated lorries and the lot.

She was quite vexed when she reached seventy and had to surrender it,

 

 

although she never, ever drove anything.

[robinmasters]

Being nearly middle-aged isn't all bad, I am legally entitled to drive stuff well beyond my actual capabilities. I CAN HAZ LORRY

[Micrashed]

I too have all sorts of weird and wonderful entitlements on my licence having passed my test in the 1980's. My wife is similarly blessed but unlike me actually has driven big duck off lorries, tractors and uni nog.s on public roads. I can only put my name to caravans and trailers with cars on the back.

[Pillock]

My girlfriend never tires of enjoying the fact she can drive, with her Oct 96 licence, far more shit than I can with my three month younger one.

 

I know my employer are struggling to find 7.5t drivers, and they seem to be getting around it by buying more 3.5t vans and overloading them :-/

[RichL]

I decided the trailer test wasn't worth the cost. If I ever take another test it will be Class One and then you can drive/tow whatever you like.

 

I worked out that I can legally tow a Caravan which is less than 1200kg (MTPLM) with my 2010 Focus 1.8. This would, however, exceed the 85 per cent rule, making it legal but possibly unstable and therefore unsafe.

 

Great.

 

[Guest bangerfan101]

Anyone with a licence gained after 97 can ONLY tow a trailer up to 750kg legally.  ignor the train weight stuff vosa will if they pull you up

 

iv looked in to this many times for racing

[bub2006]

I have looked into it too and the earlier post is correct. Up to 3500kg vehicle and trailer providing you don't exceed vehicle capacity and 750 kg for 3500kg vehicles. Quiet a few young lads drive works transit with the tiny trailer i think they have Genny in them round these parts for councils and such like. Looked into it ourselves so me and wife can buy a caravan

[Shep Shepherd]

So glad that I passed my driving test in 1995...

[bub2006]

I was 8 then!

[Shep Shepherd]

^

I was 17...

[barefoot]

I passed my test some time in the last century and on the 14th August 1993, the Castle Donington Zooropa society bus made it's one and only outing. Formed entirely to get some sort of tax relief and be able to fund a cheap trip to Leeds, we formed and disbanded on the same day as we drove to Roundhay Park, at that point U2's biggest ever gig. Of an audience of 190,000, I reckon 180,000 of the fuckers were stood in front of me. I couldn't see a fucking thing.

 

To the point, it was a 15 seat Sherpa derived slow bastard.

 

On the way back, negotiating the cleverly placed rozzers cones, I missed one.

Realised I'd missed my left turn and stopped at the nearest rozzer, Constable twat.

I pointed out what I'd done and asked if he could lift the next cone to allow me back on my way.

Sadly, constable twat lived up to his name and couldn't help.

 

Not a problem to me who immediately performed a U-turn just a hundred yards up the road

And another, a hundred yards back the other way,

Both within direct sight of the twat.

 

As we were back on route south, past the tit for the THIRD time,

I honked and stuck up the proverbial finger of joy as I set off on my way.

 

My 15 young, schooly passengers were uncharacteristically quiet throughout these manoeuvres during which I was a bit of a gob shite.

 

U2 were OK.

[twosmoke300]

Managed to get my test passed in the last month of the proper licenses. Woo Hoo