Jifflemon Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Excellent progress - The timing looks roughly in the right area to start (from my ancient memory). Get the battery on charge now (if you've not already). Whip the top off the carb to make sure the float valve isn't sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Battery is on charge in the garage as we speak. I'll inspect the valve tomorrow, I'd forgotten about bits inside the carb sticking and that's a nice easy thing to check when there's some daylight to see by. Banger Kenny and eddyramrod 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twosmoke300 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 May be barking up the wrong tree but that connection on the side of the dizzy doesn't look great . It needs to pass through the body of the dizzy and not make contact with it . There is a series of fibre or plastic spacers to make sure this doesn't happen . May be worth checking these either physically or with a ohm meter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Tidybeard Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 May be barking up the wrong tree but that connection on the side of the dizzy doesn't look great . It needs to pass through the body of the dizzy and not make contact with it . There is a series of fibre or plastic spacers to make sure this doesn't happen . May be worth checking these either physically or with a ohm meter it does look very durty it might just be worth giving the dizzy a mini vulgalouring to minimise any chance of shorting out around the wire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticvandan Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Has this thread really been going since January 2014?! Common vulg,runner by the weekend,yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 Plug leads: they are as the book says. They are as the book says. They are as the book says. @plasticvandan: I knoooooooooooooow D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 We did try Easy Start with me at the key and Mike at the carb and got a nice regular poppetypoppop down the exhaust tube when cranking, just not quite enough to get it to fire. It's *that* close! I'm wondering if just putting an air line to the fuel in on the carb and giving it a good blast might be enough to dislodge whatever is possibly blocking it? After a few attempts at starting, if it still doesn't run, take a sparking plug out to see if it's wet. A wet plug would confirm that fuel is getting through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 22, 2017 Author Share Posted February 22, 2017 I know fuel can get to the plugs without doing that, otherwise what were the plugs igniting when we put fuel directly into the throttle body? I'm just not able to get the fuel from the float chamber into the throttle body and therefore down to the plugs in the proper manner. Ergo my theory that there's a blocked carb. If I can avoid removing the plugs I will, I can barely even get at #1 without removing the alternator and the others aren't that much better for access. RayMK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayMK Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Aye, that is what I meant : attempts at starting without easystart or petrol poured directly into the throttle body will show whether fuel is getting through or not and can be confirmed by inspecting the plugs. I can understand the disinclination to remove plugs - some cars are just pigs to get at things. Regarding the alleviation of carb blockages, I can recommend Wynns Carburettor/injector cleaner aerosol (it squirts solvent through a small tube: i.e. it's not an additive). It has successfully cleared debris from my Stellar's carb a couple of times and also cleared the idling jet in my ancient Reliant without having to dismantle everything. scdan4, Dick Longbridge and vulgalour 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Pop pops sound encouraging,is it cranking fast enough? You could double up the jump leads or run an extra lead from engine to body/battery to beef up the Earth strap as its harder to start a rebuilt engine sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf892 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 This should be so easy to get going it is frustrating to read about it. First thing is work out what way the engine rotates. If you get someone to flick the starter whilst you watch which way the pulleys and the rotor arm rotate. That way you will know which way to turn the crank to find TDC. When you have the flywheel mark lined up just rock the engine back and forth a few degrees watching what the valves are doing on numbers 1 and 4. One of these 2 cylinders will have the valves rocking (one closing as the other opens). Once you have established that you will know which cylinder is supposed to be firing (the opposite to the one that is rocking) Lets say cylinder 4 has the valves rocking that will mean that cylinder 1 should be firing. Ok so now we know which one should be firing and when. Next check you are back on TDC after the rocking about. This should only be a small amount. Now look to see where the rotor arm is pointing. Make a mark on the distributor that lines up with the middle of the rotor. A bit of tippex will do but you must be able to see it with the cap on. Now put the cap on and if it isn't far out there should be 1 plug lead that lines up with where the rotor was pointing. That lead must go to number one then fit the rest of the leads in the correct firing order remembering which way the rotor arm rotated. Hopefully that would get it going, it is easy to do once you know what way they rotate. I expect to hear it running later. All of this but note the points must be just opening as rotor arm points at 1. Double check you have the direction of rotation clear in your mind because it aint gonna go if wrong....... So now it should be set: No 1 at TDC on compression (firing) stroke Rotor arm pointing to no1 plug lead contact Points just opened. Turn engine on starter causing fuel to be drawn in.....it should not go bang at about the right time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Jimmy Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 That carb looks filthy to me, needs a good blast out with some cleaner and air line. Check fuel pump is working all right.Then check for a half decent spark, coil may be on its way out. Right plugs? Plug gap? New condenser? Points set to right gap? Timing rougly right? To get her to run really well you need a timing gun and a dwell meter. The Haynes book of jokes is invaluable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I'll be having a tinker in a few so, Nibblet, fuel pump (mechanical) working really well, new coil, new correct plugs, plug gaps correct, old condenser (no reason to believe it's breaking down yet), points gap correct, timing potentially wrong at distributor (today's job). I haven't the tools to clean the carb any better than it is so that's why we're giving the pipeways a broggle with some air and wire to try and make sure it's all clear. As mentioned earlier, it's probably a blocked carb and the distributor being incorrectly aligned. We shall find out in the next few minutes I imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 nope, fuck it. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 I have just lost my temper with it today, typical really that when I was in the mood to actually crack on and try and sort it that we'd get another storm with a name (Doris, this time) come along and get in the way. The weather is pretty horrendous outside now so I'd've been forced to down tools even if I hadn't got really cross with it.I regret asking for advice really too. As helpful as some people have been, I just end up more confused than ever and question everything I do, overthink stuff. Then when it doesn't work it feels like it's entirely my fault for being stupid. Which in itself is pretty stupid. Trying to get this car running and failing has actually really put me off getting any more projects in the future and really shaken my confidence about tackling the ones I do have at the moment.However, Mike went over the good stuff I've done to balance it out. So while I haven't been able to get the engine going, and have been criticised for it, I have managed to repair the roof, make a new headlining, fit a clutch, fit piston rings, fit new brakes on the front, replace all four ball joints, find a correct headlight, fit new door seals, almost get it watertight, get all the lights working and get to the bottom of why the engine was locked up when I got it. So there's an awful lot of work I've done over the last few years and while getting the engine running is usually the most important thing on a project I've not exactly sat idle while I've not been able to do that.On balance, I'm not really a dumdum, it's just easy to forget how far I have come with this car and how much work I've done properly. When the weather has cleared up we'll have another go I suppose, because there's not a lot of money in scrap right now and a non-running obscure French car is going to be a tough sell. CGSB, The Moog and michael1703 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhard65 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think it is because you have come so far with this car that we are all willing it to live. It really should be pretty much there now. By the pictures you have posted it looks like you have got no1 sorted so that should all be correct. Just double check that the spark is still there get an old plug and plug it into 1 lead and crank to check it's there. If that is ok then whip 1 plug out and have a look so see if it is wet or not. If it is then they you will have to take all 4 out and dry them off or stick another set in. If they are dry then move onto the carb. As the fuel pump is good and you have checked fuel is coming out of the hose to the carb, take it off and give it a brief crank. There should be fuel (put something under the car if it is on tarmac as spilt fuel will damage the tarmac). If all that is ok carefully remove the top of the carb to see if the float chamber has fuel. If it doesn't there could be a problem with the float. At this point you could tip some fuel into the float bowl stick the top back on and try it. I would avoid sticking bits of wire into jets as they can easily be damaged. If you weren't 300 miles away I would come round and get the bugger going. I had a Renault 17 some years ago that needed the engine putting back together and it took ages to get the bugger going due to so many different faults, but if you work methodically to the Renault manual (ignore anything written in a Haynes manual when you have the real thing) it will go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimo Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Didn't you have to get a new starter motor for this? Is the starter spinning the engine the correct way?(Put into 1st gear and see which way the car moves on the starter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Panhard: On the fuelling, I can get fuel into the float bowl and it fills it, I just can't get the fuel to go further than that. Asimo: it's the rebuilt original, in 1st the car moves forward so I'm pretty sure that's okay. Mike and I are going to go through it one step at a time. Two pairs of eyes are going to be better than one. I could be not seeing something obvious because I've been looking at it for so long I'm blind to it now. Asimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The last few big projects I have done have all ended up with me having massive tizzy tantrums at the last few steps because it wont work.Just before I set fire to everything and hang myself from the garage rafters, I give it up for a few days or a week and go back to it fresh......it works for me. Banger Kenny and vulgalour 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Bo11ox Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Yo Vwulg, putting the car to one side, online dummy-spitting and/or sulking (even low-level), scrappage threats etc, never work out well for one’s cred. Just ask Dugong_Corporation LOLOLOL. That’s not to say you shouldn’t kick off, just best do it in private, maybe print out a picture of Piers Morgan and stab it with a garden fork or whatever. I tend to just sit in the car and yell ‘FFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKK’ so loud that my voice goes hoarse for a couple of hours, its normal. Any way don’t say you can’t get it going - you just haven’t got it going yet, having gone from the engine being in 200 bits to now just spitting back through the carb means you are 99% of the way there. Its almost certainly a timing problem which I am sure you will nail before long. Reading through the advice on here is all very well but when you have 10 different people telling you in the printed word how to time up the dizzy and that its hardly surprising you would get in a mess, I had to stop reading it myself, just too much information no matter how well meaning it is. I say leave it till tomorrow, the weather is flippin mental today. Have you got ‘the AA book of the car’? Read up about ignition timing in that and make sure you know your firing order and plug numbering and I bet £5 it will be running in less than a couple of hours of fiddling. alf892, Louise2cv, Angrydicky and 9 others 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tickman Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Vulg, all you have to do is look at the first post of yours on page 1 and then look at the car. YOU have done loads to it.It will get done, try and not put a deadline on it. If you don't want to work on it then don't and have a break from it.Frustration is the biggest enemy you have with it at the moment so when you want to just have a fresh look at it and enjoy the tinker time not just the result. RayMK, scruff, Skizzer and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 awww... you guys. I decided to be good and book a suspension pump up for the Princess which is probably happening tomorrow providing Doris doesn't get in the way of things. Tickman, michael1703 and Banger Kenny 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louise2cv Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The only other helpful thing I can add to sit in it and scream and leave it and come back, is to find someone else tell them all about how it won't work and then ask them to come and see. 9 times out of 10 the stupid thing will show you up by working straight away. My boss always used to say "it's just science" and by that he meant for all the things you are doing, you need a spark, you need fuel, you need compression. It's got to be in there somewhere. You can do this! I spent ages fannying about trying to get a spark out of the stupidly simple 2cv. In the end a guy from the club drove up from Stoke and started his weekend by spending Friday evening troubleshooting my work out in the street. Ended up being a tiny piece of metal about 1cm² that went somewhere under the condenser and that a spade connector on an LT wire attached to. Just needed a rub with some Emery cloth!!! Dick Longbridge, Tickman, Skizzer and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulgalour Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Managed to score correct cap, rotor arm, condenser and points for £15 delivered, which should be here by this time next week. I'm going to leave the engine alone until that lot arrives. In the meantime I can look at plumbing in the new radiator so I can actually run the car for longer when** it's running. I'm holding off doing the CV boots until I *know* the engine doesn't need to come out to save damaging new boots, likewise not putting the brake calipers back on until I know the CV boots have been replaced. Might see about dropping the fuel tank to clean that out, it'd be easier running from a clean tank fitted to the car than having to constantly rig up a remote fuel supply. ** see, when, not if. I'm already feeling better about this. Skizzer, strangeangel, RayMK and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
320touring Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 ^sensible, good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael1703 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Banger Kenny 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplebargeken Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 The last bits to be done on a car can be the twattiest. Like others have said, the amount of work done on this frogmobile has been pretty impressive, especially since it was a field find. When you find the problem you will kick yourself 'cos it will be so simple*. Please let us do some virtual kicking as well. Leave the engine of satan alone for a while and go polish/clean/derust something. It ain't the end of the world mate. Cavcraft and Banger Kenny 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scaryoldcortina Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I think it's about time I popped down for a look. panhard65, Skizzer, KruJoe and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loserone Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It's the Ale and Arty beer festival in the ARC in Stockton this weekend as well for when it needs a quick run around the block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilA Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Could be worse Could be fuel injection Keep at it. DeeJay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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