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Felly Magic

Bus Shite (I'VE BEEN PAPPED, NOOOOOO LOL)

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The National seems “as built” so I’d plump for about ‘74 the biggest clue would be the roof pod but I can’t see enough detail to pin it down but I’m sure I’m seeing vents in the front leading me to believe it’s a later “short pod” circa 1974-75.

Isn’t that an Allegro above the roof of the Vauxhall?

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The three wheeler looks like an Invacar (not a Bond or Reliant) it could be a Thundersley one due to the more upright rear pillar rather than the AC model (as seen in this parish) which has a more rakish 'Angliaesque' sloping pillar.

 

Could the beige car be a Maxi or Saab 99?

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Four cylinder engines in buses are basically a result of ever tightening emissions regulations resulting in ever smaller engines doing the work of larger ones. The optare Metrodecker, for instance, uses a four cylinder 5.1 litre engine to do the same job as one almost twice the size, only a short few years previously. Good idea? Well, the power is there - modern euro 6 diesels can put out some impressive figures but I’ve a sneaking suspicion they might eventually suffer from the eco boost syndrome where they just give up in one unholy cloud of shit, snot and corruption.

One thing that isn’t thought about either is the fact that older buses used to limp along for a good while after their first flush of youth and some of their power had worn away. The power of these highly strung animals drop so rapidly as wear is introduced - there is no where to go but to unit change therefore increase overall life costs.

I think I’ll stick with my de-rated M11 for the moment until a clearer picture has developed.

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As far as I know only the Trident Hybrids are 4cyl, the non-hybrid is still a six. But as FPB7 says they are becoming increasingly popular; Wright's own integral I believe uses a 4 cylinder (Mercedes), as does the popular Volvo B5 hybrid and the stupid Boris-decker thing.

 

One annoying thing which is rarely considered is that a 4cyl is an inherently unbalanced engine, whereas a 6cyl is perfectly balanced without modification. Unless balancing shafts are fitted (BMW for instance tends to fit these to its 4cyl engines, whereas most manufacturers don't) they tend to vibrate like mad compared to their 6cyl siblings. Same problem for Scania's 5cyl bus engines. 

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Volvo B5 series are already crapping themselves at very low mileage, turbo faults are rife, B7TLs suffer from horrendous turbo lag and smoke like a chimney when pulling away, oil mist is common on Cummins C and Volvo & series, I've had a B7TL put a leg out of bed, it was one hell of a bang, and had engine protection cut in when doing nearly 40! Wiring loom faults are common on Volvos too, you get the dashboard message 'CHASSIS ECU FAILURE' and the bus simply shuts down. Electronic throttles are causing issues on DAF and many Cummins products, it fails to wide open throttle, it also happens with DAF trucks, so clearly something amiss with the potentiometers. ADL are picking up orders due to Wright being utterly crap when it comes to build quality and reliability, and customer care, Lothian just stuck the 2 fingered salute to Wright with their new tri axle deckers. Scania seem to be falling out of favour too, down to the poor reliability on the N230 series, and you should see the state of all of Cardiff Bus' Scania fleet, they are falling to pieces with severe structural issues. 

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Volvo B5 series are already crapping themselves at very low mileage, turbo faults are rife, B7TLs suffer from horrendous turbo lag and smoke like a chimney when pulling away, oil mist is common on Cummins C and Volvo & series, I've had a B7TL put a leg out of bed, it was one hell of a bang, and had engine protection cut in when doing nearly 40! Wiring loom faults are common on Volvos too, you get the dashboard message 'CHASSIS ECU FAILURE' and the bus simply shuts down. Electronic throttles are causing issues on DAF and many Cummins products, it fails to wide open throttle, it also happens with DAF trucks, so clearly something amiss with the potentiometers. ADL are picking up orders due to Wright being utterly crap when it comes to build quality and reliability, and customer care, Lothian just stuck the 2 fingered salute to Wright with their new tri axle deckers. Scania seem to be falling out of favour too, down to the poor reliability on the N230 series, and you should see the state of all of Cardiff Bus' Scania fleet, they are falling to pieces with severe structural issues. 

 

So does this just mean 'buy German' like the rest of Europe does? ;)

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Buckingham is likely to be United Counties. Their first National was L reg I think, so '74 most likely.

More likely 75, I agree about it having a short roof pod, these were available from 75, some records say 76 but there's pics of export versions with short pods in 75.

 

Knowing exactly where the picture was taken would help, somebody even sadder than me would know when Leyland Nasties were introduced into that route.

 

EDIT: I'll have a look through some of my books in next couple of days and see when UCOC had deliveries of Nasties (assuming it's not an LCBS one).

 

EDIT 2. Looking at pics of these heaps, the short pod versions started to appear in reg letter N, August 1974 - July 1975, long pod versions also having this reg letter.

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Volvo B5 series are already crapping themselves at very low mileage, turbo faults are rife, B7TLs suffer from horrendous turbo lag and smoke like a chimney when pulling away

 

Odd, i was just thinking this the other day.

 

Back when i was a kid, we had the old Ailsas thundering up and down the road like a herd of rhinos, they'd be covered in road dirt, especially in winter and occasionally you'd see the odd black puff when pulling away when cold, nothing major.

 

Nowadays half the buses, particularly the B7TL and B5 Based ones are almost wearing soot as part of the livery, the things are pouring out smoke pretty regularly.

 

Progress, eh?

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Didn't London Transport figure out pretty quickly 60+ years ago with the RT and the Routemaster, that what you want for intense bus work is a Large under-stressed de-rated engine? (I mean thats pretty much true for anything LOL)

 

for example the 9.6L i6 AEC AV590 only makes 115HP in the Routemaster (Dont know torque figures but probably all of them  :mrgreen: )

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What was the last 2 stroke diesel bus in service? are any in preservation?

CIE had GM two stokes in various buses, not sure when the last went but there's some preserved.

In the UK, Commer made two strokes as did Fodern. There's some of both preserved. There's also at least one ex Greyhound coach that's been imported into the UK for preservation.

 

Trains, all the Class 66 are two stokes and Deltics were.

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Does anybody know when a Leyland Nation would have first entered service in Buckingham.

 

Again this is to help date the photo for a local historian.

If it's a short pod National and it's UCOC then it's post November 1974 as that's when they got their first three of this type, GNV653-5N.

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Emphatically no if our experience of Merc engines in Streetshites is anything to go by.

 

EFA, First Hunslet Park has E400MMCs, DAF Streetdecks, and B5TL Wrights, as well as B5LHs, and for reliability and average economy it seems the MMCs have the edge, plus the MMCs are easier to work on when it comes to servicing. 

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There's at least one MC-9 coach from the US with a Detroit 8V71 in the back somewhere in the UK.  No idea who has it now as we only saw it briefly to resolve an electrical issue for an MOT (bodged conversion to UK spec indicators it turned out) before the guy was apparently selling it.

 

Main thing I remember was that it sounded absolutely bloody epic.

 

Never heard one in person, but the V6 version might actually get my vote purely based on video evidence, as they just sound *angry* compared to the V8.

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Ensignbus have an ex Greyhound motor as one of their toys IIRC, there are a couple of Bedford trucks preserved with Detroit 2 smokers as well

Not bus but truck, Scammell fitted GM V8 two stokers into some of their wagons. We had a couple of 6x4 heavy haul units bought new in the early 80's. Twin vertical exhaust stacks made an impressive noise.

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I watched one of Mayle's latest vids on youtube, he's restored a Foden Mickey Mouse S21 with the 2 stroke lump, and it sounds absolutely awesomesauce, with added Totes Amazeballs ness, incab video is a deffo headphones on loud job

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