Bus Shite

[martc]

Another Ikarus in the USSR, this time a 250.09  in Vladimir Oblast, 1974.

[kirton]

On 28/01/2024 at 14:52, Metal Guru said:

I remember going to school on M&D Atlanteans in the 70s. They were quite old then I think. 

I can remember going to school when these were brand new, very different to the rear entry proper buses with exhaust brakes

[gm]

front street, chester le street 

[willswitchengage]

Is this unique? Orange County Transit Authority's 'Superbus' of the 1980s. Looks like the air-con system has a reefer power unit. Apparently the design was seen as a good idea for its high capacity and low floor.

[petermchugh79]

Big gal, broken down

Sent from my 21061119DG using Tapatalk

[Yoss]

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

[Inspector Morose]

I'll just drop this here.

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

I'll just drop this here.

is that the same Cummins V6 they tried in XF3? 

[Inspector Morose]

Just now, LightBulbFun said:

is that the same Cummins V6 they tried in XF3? 

Before that.

[N19]

I remember Volvo B7TLs of that era sounding like a howling vacuum cleaner a couple of years after being new, in the hands of some less well-maintaining operators - shame that they are still groaning around.

[jon.k]

 

Were the B7TLs any relation to this? On the route this one is pictured on, they took a load of normal buses off and put these coaches to work. They made such weird noises, like a spaceship or something at times. The mainly old people who used them didn't like the steps, so it wasn't long before they were taken off the route and normal buses were back.

[busmansholiday]

2 hours ago, Inspector Morose said:

I'll just drop this here.

Aaarrhhh, the sound of that V6 engine, screaming away in the back of a Roadliner was something to behold. I was lucky, Chesterfield had some (never got to drive one), but travelled on many, and travelled on Bournemouth's (on loan to LCBS),  and.. 

 

Stay still my beating heart !!!

 

The re-engined ones with the Perkins V8 may have been more reliable but....

 

[cms206]

Back in today after four days; 1617 start on the 167.

[Eyersey1234]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:15, Yoss said:

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

Go Ahead have probably dithered and dithered over authorising the order, when we got extra NX work last year the new coaches were meant to be ordered within 6 months, it took Go Ahead 10 months to authorise it

[Noel Tidybeard]

On 13/02/2024 at 16:15, Yoss said:

Came across this whilst out on delivery yesterday. 

These elderly Volvo's were brought in last year to boost the Bluestar fleet when First Bus pulled out. We have 13 of them, or we did, they've started replacing them with some marginally newer ex London General Dennis Tridents recently. These Volvo's are known locally as the noisy buses as half of them have their cooling fans stuck on permanently. There have been letters in the local paper about them and even my mum has noticed them!

It's not often you see two of them together now.

6902 is the loudest of them all. You can hear it pretty much the whole length of Shirley Road.

Oh, the shame. Not just for breaking down but for being rescued by an Iveco.

I don't know how much longer they will be here. I'm sure we have more than 13 of the Tridents now and yet they are still using these. On top of that, both types were only supposed to be stop gaps until new buses arrived. First Bus pulled out almost exactly a year ago now. They announced they were pulling out about three months before that at which point Bluestar almost immediately announced they would be stepping in to replace a lot of the First Bus routes. I realise you can't order new buses in three months but I would have thought you could in 15 months but what do I know. They did announce they were going to be getting new buses but perhaps they have changed their minds.

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

[Yoss]

19 minutes ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

They are certainly not electric as they go up and down with engine speed which makes the noise even more annoying. So my guess was that they are on some sort of clutch that is somehow thermostatically activated but that's just a guess.

[Inspector Morose]

3 hours ago, Noel Tidybeard said:

iirc it was because they had a hydraulic fan? nxwm had all theirs converted as some sort of enviromental package

i'm sure the inspector will correct if i'm wrong

You're not wrong! The NXWM B7s were nearly always on full until Grayson Systems came out with an electric retrofit package. They're quite cool too as they have a routine where they blow backwards to help clear the crap back out of the fins.

The original set up was an ecu controlled hydraulic set up and its fail state was full on at full (engine driven) pump pressure Needless to say, any glitch in sensors, wiring or ecu meant double deck hoovers running around. They reckoned that it knocked over 1mpg off the economy, not great when they're only doing about 5 to begin with.

[LightBulbFun]

interesting, every now and then back in the day there used to be the odd Trident around here that was loud as fuck, interesting to learn the reasoning behind that  (assuming tridents suffer from the same sort of issues!)

35 minutes ago, Inspector Morose said:

They reckoned that it knocked over 1mpg off the economy, not great when they're only doing about 5 to begin with.

is that all?! a Routemaster will do about 8 or 9 Mpg IIRC...

 

[83C]

11 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

interesting, every now and then back in the day there used to be the odd Trident around here that was loud as fuck, interesting to learn the reasoning behind that  (assuming tridents suffer from the same sort of issues!)

is that all?! a Routemaster will do about 8 or 9 Mpg IIRC...

 

Yep, standard these days. A good Gardner VR would get 12-14mpg with a decent driver, even my old Tiger would return over 10mpg, as would most things with a Cummins L10. Modern stuff is horrendous on fuel but comply with emissions requirements. Also a consequence of using smaller engines with hoooge turbos bolted to the side, they might have similar horsepower to an old L10 but are sorely lacking in torque. 

[Inspector Morose]

See how your relatively economical heaps economy plummets when faced with round the town traffic? Yeah, times that by eleventy billion. Stop start, stop start, it absolutely kills economy even in the best of things. Add an old school auto gearbox and it’s no real wonder that they only do pitiful miles per gallon.

As a confirmed 680 and L10 fan (sorry, no Gardners here - go back to the 19th century where you belong), it pains me to say that modern engines aren’t that bad on torque and given the obscene amounts of stress they’re put under by their mega turbos and strangled with hideously complex emission control equipment, the figures that they put out are nothing short of remarkable. Longevity isn’t that bad either.

It’s this economy that’s driving some large operators push for more battery electrics, they are simply far cheaper to fuel and in an industry that seems to constantly invent new bottoms to race towards, fuel costs are a huge stumbling block in trying to make services pay. Add on reduced component wear, reduced maintenance and theoretically longer service life (mechanically, anyway), it’s a no brainer.

[rml2345]

It's almost like buses without big, vibrating powerplants that shake everything to bits and consume fuel, fluids and enormous amounts of time and effort are the future? A certain Walsall GM would have been pleased...

[83C]

On 20/02/2024 at 22:25, Inspector Morose said:

As a confirmed 680 and L10 fan (sorry, no Gardners here - go back to the 19th century where you belong), it pains me to say that modern engines aren’t that bad on torque and given the obscene amounts of stress they’re put under by their mega turbos and strangled with hideously complex emission control equipment, the figures that they put out are nothing short of remarkable. Longevity isn’t that bad either.

It’s well known that Noah used a pair of 6LWs to power the Ark, and even Methuselah told him he was being old fashioned and should find something modern. But for all their dogged determination to stick with an engine from antiquity, Gardner knew how to make a strong, economical motor. Never the fastest things on the road, but a good 6LX will slog on forever, even with a ham-fisted, lead-footed twat at the wheel. I do like a 680 (and the TL11 that followed), and the L10 is a very versatile lump, but after that everything went downhill pretty quickly. The 6BT/ISB is alright, but it’s better suited to a three ton pickup rather than 7-8tons of bus. The Merc 4-pot found in most early Solos was woefully underpowered for the job, and the Tridents, Javelins etc that used the 8.3 C-series/ISC weren’t even close to an adequate replacement for a Volvo D10A or TD100. 

The thing with the bigger capacity, older engines was that the power and torque were spread over a decent bit of the rev range, so they didn’t need thrashing. Coupled to a good gearbox (ZF 5HP500 ideally) a good Cummins L10 or Volvo TD100/D10A Olympian will drive much nicer than a C-series Trident lumbered with the silly Voith gearbox. To be fair I’ve never driven any road vehicle fitted with a Voith gearbox that was actually pleasant to drive, they absolutely ruin a vehicle. Conversely they’re fantastic on the railway, much more suited to their environment.

I get that emissions regs are the cause of much of the complexity and nature of how modern vehicles drive, but for actually getting the job done the vehicles of yesteryear were far better.

[busmansholiday]

8 hours ago, 83C said:

I get that emissions regs are the cause of much of the complexity and nature of how modern vehicles drive, but for actually getting the job done the vehicles of yesteryear were far better.

Hate Nationals that I do, it was a lot, lot easier for a shift than a crash box Leopard on local services, and South Yorkshire is hardly flat.

[MiniMinorMk3]

Phwoar! Look at that pair of big Bristols

[MiniMinorMk3]

[artdjones]

I went to the Carris museum in Lisbon today. It's just like a transport museum should be, with everything in good shape, well explained (with English translation), not trying to be painfully relevant. The vehicle section is buried in the middle of the Carris works right underneath the 25th April suspension bridge. So you pay just inside the works entrance, look around the first part of the museum, and are then taken down to the vehicles on the old red tram in the photos. There's a huge amount about the history of Carris as well, with lots of other equipment on display. Amazingly, only €4.50 entrance. The only disappointment was that they don't seem to have any of the rather wonderful locally bodied AEC Regent Vs they bought inthe sixties.

[RoadworkUK]

Of Gardners (and speaking from an entirely emotional perspective), am I allowed to really like the 6LYT? 

Very occasionally, a Plaxton Paramount 4000 on Gardner-powered Neoplan underframes served on my school bus route, and I liked a) how it sounded, b) the fact that it said "Turbo 330" on the side, and c) the fact that it took off at a rate of knots compared with the Daimler Fleetlines we were usually cooped up in.

[cms206]

Last horse in tonight at 0153, barring the N238s: 0123 finish at Chingford and a full shift with 19782.

 

[Eyersey1234]

6 hours ago, cms206 said:

Last horse in tonight at 0153, barring the N238s: 0123 finish at Chingford and a full shift with 19782.

 

Speaking of horses, one of my colleagues and I took a group of uni students to Doncaster Races yesterday for a piss up. My chariot was the Evoseti on the right.

[Dyslexic Viking]

Reading that Zetor book and is a special bus used by Zetor in one of the pictures but what kind of bus is it? A little research and this is a Skoda bus, but I don't know more.

But I guess it was used as a mobile workshop.