Bus Shite

[Yoss]

HOR is a fine machine. Bit of a hybrid, the PDR1/3. As Leylands first version of a lowheight Atlantean was an unholy mess upstairs they tried again using the drop centre axle from the Albion Lowlander and the gearbox from the Daimler Fleetline and so allowing a normal upper deck layout. Riding on this very one was a wonderful mash up of noise, from the gruff growl of an early Atlantean starting away until top gear is reached at which point the unmistakable whine from the Fleetline derived gearbox takes over. Sublime!

HOR is quite a remarkable survivor as well having been re converted back from open top using, I believe, the complete roof from another member from the same batch.

My memories of this bus mainly involve condensation.

 

Living so close to Winchester I'd always be at the King Alfred running days on Jan 1st. By the end it had become a massive event with probably every preserved bus within a two hour radius turning up. But by the end of the day from about 4pm when all the visiting buses had left the King Alfred buses were still running local trips round Winchester in the dark. It would have invariably rained at some point during the day and was it was also freezing (I think these were the main reasons they decided to call time on the event. I think most of the volunteers are of a certain age and trying to keep all their buses running in those conditions is no fun).

 

So by the time of last run the buses had had hundreds of wet people traipsing on and off all day and I remember them being so wet the condensation was actually dripping off the ceiling.

[Soap Distant]

Those running days were ace, you never knew what would turn up and it was one of the last times I managed to bag a Metroscania.

[Dick Longbridge]

Try page 47.

Wow. Owning an RM at the tender age of twenty. That’s aspiration right there.

[Yoss]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think. But then I drive a Skoda Favorit so I'm used to people looking at me the same way.

[busmansholiday]

All this came to an end when a passenger on one of the overnight Londons wrote in to compliment the crew -"the drivers were so smooth that they didn't wake me up when they changed over along the A1" - the cruise control stick was very good for driver changes on the move!

You didn't need the stick trick to be able to swop drivers at speed on the motorway, just enough space to be able to get past the handbrake and behind the seat as your mate took over. Had to remember not to be overtaking anything when you did this...

[busmansholiday]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think.

I spent a lot of time looking at that Leeds Atlantean on Sunday. I remember Sheffield's example very well from this era. Eventually I thought to myself, "yes,I still fucking hate these bags of shite". Sorry if anybody here owns one, but I grew up with them and they are hateful (like a Dart).

[dollywobbler]

A front mounted intercooler on a rear engines bus must have monumental turbo lag

 

That was my thought. Having massively long coolant pipes is one thing, but having a 60ft inlet tract doesn't seem ideal.

[jon.k]

I'm really enjoying this thread. It's really interesting to hear perspectives on these buses from people who've owned and worked on them. On the topic of the cold starting; a friend of mine worked in a bus garage as a teenager in the 50s, and he recently told me that the owners had decided that it was cheaper to keep the whole fleet running and warm until midnight, than fill them with antifreeze. Sounds odd to me, but he assured me that it was someone's job to come and turn them all off last thing at night. I'll check with him and find out what buses they were.

 

Also an on topic chance to photowhore my lynx, almost

[cobblers]

We've quite a few customers that have sent us boost packs in for repair and mark them VOR cos they've only one boost pack and half their fleet won't start off their own batteries.

[busmansholiday]

^^^ I knew a few independent companies that when it got to very cold temperatures simply left the buses running all night in the yard. Generally they ran very old leopards, often with 0600 engines.

[Zelandeth]

I dont think we were the first to do it though these days they'll be lusting after Plaxton Pointer Darts and the old fogeys like me are thinking why on earth would you want one of those. But it's all about what you grew up with I think. But then I drive a Skoda Favorit so I'm used to people looking at me the same way.

 

Exactly.  It's usually about what you grew up with.

 

Duple Dominant II bodied Bedford YNT coach, please. STA380R being the vehicle that started the interest for me.

 

Or a late 80s Leyland Olympian with an RH body - but only if it's a Cummins L10 powered one, not least for *that exhaust note* (wonderfully demonstrated by E130DRS on YouTube I believe).  Had the opportunity to spend a good run on one of them flat out as on a mate's one one day - suffice to say I parked myself in the offside rear seat right next to the exhaust.  Only problem I have in that situation is that there's always a danger of me falling asleep, always find steady mechanical noise like that very soothing.

 

Back seat of the Volvo B7R coaches Stagecoach have with the inevitable ZF box that howls in top was effective on that count too.  Managed to end up in Huntly heading out of Aberdeen on the 10 once because I was out like a light after about 15 minutes and totally missed Inverurie which was where I was aiming for.

 

Was on one of the coaches on the X5 to Oxford here recently and was totally disappointed... suspension feels like it's from an Audi S4 rather than a coach, and the gearbox which feels to be a robotically controlled manual would drive me insane if I was driving...thing took about two seconds for each change and was set up so that you were in about fourth by the time you'd finished pulling out of a junction!

 

Biggest issue though was the ride...that floaty feeling as a coach wafts down the road is a big part of it for me...they just don't feel like coaches.  Just a really big, awkward car.

 

Think I'll stick with a Bedford thanks...

[Soap Distant]

Corporations used to go to great lengths to keep buses warm over winter times. A good number never ran with antifreeze but plumbed in the bus every night into a central heating system run by a big boiler in the garage somewhere. Thus the engines were never cold and saved precious fuel and engine wear in the mornings on starting cold engines. The poor passengers never felt the benefit though as they were invariably never fitted with heaters!

Thinking of weird solutions to problems you never thought existed was one corporation that never ran its buses with oil filters. Every night after the bus was parked up in its spot, the oil was drained and piped to a large centrifuge where the impurities were literally spun out of suspension in the oil. The refreshed oil was then put back into the engine clean for another day's work. Talk about spending pounds to save pennies!

Leyland used an engine mounted oil "spinner" centrifuge device as an option on the 0600 series engine instead of a normal oil filter. When I first came across them, I doubted their effectiveness but on cleaning it out, the thick carbon deposit that coated the inner surface proved me wrong. It was like a black plasticine like material that came out. Very weird and the engines that had this device fitted seemed to last a bit longer too.

[Guest Hooli]

Sounds like the sludge trap on a Triumph motorbike, except they brilliantly* put them inside the crank so as they blocked up you got no flow to the big ends.

 

ETA, small bikes like Honda CG125s use centrifugal filters too, as you say a lot of crud gets caught in them.

[Soap Distant]

how it worked was that the oil was fed up a central shaft into a head which contained angled jets sprayed the oil out to the sides,of the unit. This also spun the top containing the jets around at some speed. The oil then ran down and was piped from the unit back into the sump. If you looked at it, you wouldn't believe it was that effective but it really was.

[dollywobbler]

Disco TD5 runs a centrifugal oil filter I believe. Presumably quite a few other cars do too.

[Christine]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB  ?

 

 

 

 

 

[MorrisItalSLX]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB  ?

 

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Livery looks like Sydney Buses, Circa 1940s - 1960s

[twosmoke300]

Belarus tractors use a centrifuge and it’s very effective

[rml2345]

Scratchbuilt plasticard , what are they please ? A OB ?

 

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The top one is indeed a Bedford OB with what looks like a Mulliner bus body. The bottom one looks like an Eastern Counties bodied Dennis Mace which is a bit more oddball. Both look pretty bloody good though, whoever built them had some skills.

[busmansholiday]

Bus wise, no. But class 66 locos are all V12 two smokers

[Christine]

and the odd Maxi

[CreepingJesus]

Sure there's no Foden strokers on the road? There's a fair few on the truck side of things.

Did any buses get the Commer stroker engine?

[busmansholiday]

A few did but other than bus rallies your not going to have the delight of one these days.

[rml2345]

I'm sure the TS3 Stroker found it's way into the Commer Avenger coach range which was aimed at the same sort of operators who bought Bedford SBs and the like. Some have made it to preservation but I think they're quite rare.

[Christine]

Commer Avenger  

...sadly petrol  

 

 

 

This could go in minature Shite , but its also a bus.

Bought this years ago at a swap meet for 30 quid. It's a model of a COMMER AVENGER chassis . ( Me Dad said that, and he knows everyfink about buses !! ) Other than that I know nothing about it , but one day I'll restore it. The front axle was broke,but me old Dad has made another.. most of the rest i have in a box.. It's all rivited Alooominum chassis rails, wooden engine block ,copper and ali for other parts ..Exquisite ain't it ?? Looks like an apprentice piece, must have taken hours to build..The penny gives an idea of it's size.Double click pics and they'll go big !

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[Zelandeth]

There's (or at least was in 2005 when I last saw it) an imported TMC coach from the US back up north in private hands still running a Detroit 8V71 - was the first time I'd ever come across one.  The sound is truly epic and something any self respecting petrol (or diesel) head needs to experience.  Was really shocked by how smooth it was.

 

Body was a royal mess with accident damage to the rear and several missing bits of glass.  It was solid though and was slated for restoration.  It drove well enough too, even with a typically dopey Alison 'box which you could catch snoozing if you did anything other than keep the throttle absolutely steady coming out of a junction.

 

...we may have also done a flat out test on a private road with the silencer nowhere near the bus.

[Zelandeth]

Edit...but the edit function doesn't work right on my phone...

 

Can't remember for certain, but I think it's an MC-5.  Could be well wrong there though, only saw it once.

[quicksilver]

Sure there's no Foden strokers on the road? There's a fair few on the truck side of things.

Did any buses get the Commer stroker engine?

Roger Burdett's amazing collection includes a two-stroke Foden and a TS3-engined Commer, both in full working order. There's a handful of others active on the rally scene too I think.

[Soap Distant]

Oh yes, I forgot. I was waffling on about the time I was playing with buses, wasn't I? Where did I get to? Oh yes....

 

We left the fleet settling down with a mixture of REs, a few Leopards, a number of Bedfords and another collective noun of Seddon RUs. The RUs were hopeless, the Bedfords and the coach bodied Leopards were unpopular with the travelling public. The only recourse was to buy more REs!

 

PVT182L was a 680 engined RE, new to PMT. It survived three livery changes but always seemed to be a bit of a problem child. It didn't last that long and was gone bu 1990.

 

 

 

GTX360N was a real peach of a bus. Ex Inter Valley Link and painted brown and cream for a service in relation with the Severn Valley Railway. Its condition was so good, it was one of the longest serving REs we had.

 

 

KTX244L Another wonderful condition RE from Wales. This was the only RE to survive our use and was sold on to Tannat Valley, Oswestry for further service.

 

 

HTD323K Another East Lancs RESL/0600. Noisy rattly but went rather well.

 

 

LGH384H A rare Northern Counties RESL with 0600 engine. This was painted brown to serve as a reserve for the Severn Valley service. Not a great performer with a lot of blowby into the crankcase. Condition wise, it didn't warrant an engine rebuild and so it soldiered on until finally grinding to a halt. The blow by got so bad that the dipstick had to be wired solidly to the dipstick tube as it had a habit of firing the dipstick out across the road. One notable feature was that the opening skylights (like on a 70s coach) wee air operated from the cab. Operating one of the four switched elicited a hiss and a thud as one end of one of the two skylights sprang open. When the air pressure went down overnight, the skylights would spring back closed with an equally loud thud. Here's a pic of similar 385 as I don't have one of this bus. 

 

 

Time were a changing and REs were starting to become harder to find in reasonable condition. We nearly bought some Marshall bodied examples but decided they were just too far gone and so the search was on for the next standard bus.

 

Yes, it had to be the National, didn't it? XEH250M was our first and an unforgettable beast it was! We were used to the REs heavy engineering and so this National didn't sit well in the fleet. What also didn't sit well was its apatite for rear brakes; a set would last about six to seven weeks and when there was only a few of you doing the maintenance, this diva like behaviour was not what was needed! Smoke was also a problem and the constant battle with the rear mounted radiator fan and its bracketry didn't endear this machine to any of us. Drivers found it okay to drive but cold and unsurprisingly XEH didn't last too long in the fleet. Again this isn't one of my pics:

 

 

The two Mercedes minibuses were finally delivered around this time and settled onto the service they were bought for. Within weeks they became too small (33 seaters) and so they got used wherever until we found a buyer in the shape of London and Country. What can you say? They were a bus, they worked well, erm meh. Here's G690OHE.

 

 

The last of the Leopards had gone save for one. OKG158M was a real peach of a coach. It didn't fit in with any of the fleet but when we saw it for sale at an operator in Bristol, we couldn't resist it. It was like a brand new 20 year old coach. Originally ordered by the Welsh constabulary, it was sold to this Bristol operator with 26, yes 26 miles on the clock and was wrapped in cotton wool from the day it set tyre in their yard. We bought it and instantly regretted it as nobody apart from one driver would drive it, the passengers hated it as the isle between the seats was too narrow for their shopping trolleys and etc etc etc. What to do? We knew the chassis and mechanicals were sound and we knew that we wouldn't make any money on selling it. A chance conversation with the managing director of Willowbrook about the need for a low cost, good looking bus for independent operators based upon tried and trusted mechanicals led us both to hatch a plan. Willowbrook were already in the business of rebodying Leopards with a rather utilitarian body called the Warrior but we suggested a redesigned Warrior mounted upon a refurbished RE chassis. WMT, our competitor was just in the process of receiving 250 Leyland Lynx's; what we wanted was a bus that looked like that but was, well, cheaper. Plans were afoot and it was proposed that the first modified Warrior body was to be built onto a Leopard chassis so that any problems could be ironed out then KTX244L would be sent to Loughborough for the old body to be pulled off and the low step Lynx clone body put in its place. OKG was to be the first step....

Eventually when it returned, our problems began. Firstly, it was painted in the most horrible shade of green we'd seen and not the shade agreed upon. On the day of delivery, the ministry was in for its periodical checks and immediately gave the newly refurbished chassis and body the largest PG9 list we'd seen in a long time. Irate phonecalls ensued and the bus was sent back to Willowbrook for rectification. This was just the start of a catalogue of problems. The front windscreen area was not strengthened and so the windscreens fell out after a week when the body flex became too great for the mass of glass. The flat screens also meant that the bus could not be driven when it got dark as it was almost impossible to see out. The wheel arch boxes were so thin that one passenger put her high heel through one and so it goes on, and on, and on until we just gave up and sold the bus to Sussex Bus. The RE rebody became a non starter as the relations between ourselves and Willowbrook became ever strained.

Again these are not my photos, I have some including the interior featuring the same moquette as Blackpool trams at the time. They're somewhere around and I'll dig them out one day.

Before:

 

 

After:

 

 

Oh well, its back to Natonals then and we'd better get used to them. LPB214P was bought as the first of the RE replacements. It didn't end too well, fracturing an injector pipe and the resultant fuel leak setting fire to the back of the bus.

 

 

 

Not a good start but we persevered. Ex London Nationals started to flood the market and we took advantage of this to buy a number to replace the REs THX135S was ex Bexleybus and repainted with the added garnish of a badge of YTB945N to make it a pseudo RE to make us feel better.

 

 

 

 VPT940R was a shed. A rotten, hopeless nail of a bus. It came to us like this with 12 months ticket. It was withdrawn before the ticket ran out after a few weeks as we found it to be bent underneath as well as being rotten as a pear. 

 

 

UAE993N and its sister GEU359N came to us from Bristol as dual door, long Nationals. Useful for capacity over the low capacity of the London examples, these gave exemplary service, lasting beyond the company.

 

 

LJN662P Bought as a pair (why oh why did we buy in pairs?) from Eastern National, these were bought again for capacity reasons and gave reliable service after tidying up a bit and painting.

 

 

We did have a problem with capacity on one route. This gave us reason to buy our first double decker. But which type? Well there could only be one type and lo, it was duly delivered from it's precious operator, Trailways of Walsall.

Enter JOV746P

 

 

And duly repainted:

 

 

And so we'll end there as at the same time as the purchase of the Ailsa, life got turned completely upside down as I was given the rudest lesson in business I was ever to suffer.

[dollywobbler]

Grand stuff. I lived the other side of Brum, and had no idea about these antics!

 

That Leopard rebody is an absolute shocker though. Guess it's one reason British coachbuilding went entirely down the pan...