Dave_Q Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 It's an auto scooter so the bottom end is just the crank, this has a pulley thing bolted to one end and a generator to the other, the transmission is a selection of rubber bands and springs in the side casing. The head is just out of shot on the lhs of that photo, inlet is on top of the cases and exhaust comes out under the cylinder. So no oil near the crankcase other than the 2t that goes in with the fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabergé Greggs Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Ah yes of course, that makes sense. Do you have the tools to take the clutch off? You could do the old wd40 trick on the seal whilst running, or someone once suggested an unlit blow torch for an old Yamaha I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If the mains are gone then you get massive air leaks and it will be very weak, smoke could be in burned fuel from when people have been trying to start it. Mains and seals by and large are easy on 2 strokes, I did my first one on the dining room table aged 13, only tricky bit is warming up the cases round the bearings to get them to separate easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Q Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yeah I don't think I would have a problem doing the mains, just wanted to check how to diagnose so I'm not doing all that if it's something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
castros_bro Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 To check crank seals on a non-piston ported ie. reed valve inlet equipped two stroke. Remove carb and reed valve, set piston as in this pic, blow/pump air into the inlet to get 0.5 bar in the crankcase, you should be able to hear any serious crank seal leak or apply snoop/washing up liquid and look for bubbles. Clean off all the bubbles liquid as it is corrosive. Dave_Q 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangeangel Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 So... I need a carb and a vacuum tap for the Caren. What's the only sensible thing to do in a situation like this? Buy another one, of course! For fifty pund it will also yield other useful parts, the legshields are better than mine for a start. Collection mission imminent... Dave_Q, gtd2000, Aston Martin and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Blockage in the exhaust? See if it will run without, probably better to try this in the daytime it will be loud. Hear, hear - a very common cause of the problems you described is a exhasut/silencer blocked with soot/partially burnt oil. They can be de-coked, carefully, using caustic soda (assuming there is no aluminium present in the silencer (which is unlikely)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Hear, hear - a very common cause of the problems you described is a exhasut/silencer blocked with soot/partially burnt oil. They can be de-coked, carefully, using caustic soda (assuming there is no aluminium present in the silencer (which is unlikely)).I used to squirt pez into mine and then set light to them with the engine running - flames & smog/soot clouds galore. Probably utterly foolish, but worked. martc, Dave_Q, strangeangel and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Dopey bastard - if he left it on the bike and just ran it he wouldn't need to dick about with air lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtd2000 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I'd say you were being overly kind referring to him as a dopey bastard! DodgeRover 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If you ride a 2 stroke properly and use decent oil you don't have these problems.... Jerzy Woking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangeangel Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 If you ride a 2 stroke properly and use decent oil you don't have these problems.... Exactly, I thought modern 2T oil (and the passing into history of premixing) had done away with the needs for taking baffles out and setting fire to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twosmoke300 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Premix still alive and well on competition dirt bikes ! red5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red5 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 New steed. Well, about a month ago but meh... Yoshi pipe ! (too loud ....) Jazoli, Dave_Q and UltraWomble 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hooli Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 My first proper bike was a RF600RR. Wasn't a bad bike except it's been crashed and the frame was a banana... Saddle height was too low too, my knees used to crap up & I couldn't get off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangeangel Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Collecting 2/3rds of a Honda Caren in a convertible 205 was interesting*. It took some stripping down in situ, but the back seats fold down like a 'normal' 205, so it was just a case of 'open roof, drop in moped, close roof' in the end. The main thing is that I have what looks like a serviceable carb, some better legshields, a flange for the exhaust, and some other potentially useful stuff. The fuel tap had been subbed for a Honda Cub style tap, so no luck on that front though. Still, I reckon I've got everything I need now to get it going, one way or another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 25, 2017 Share Posted November 25, 2017 Am I imagining things tha the Caren came with a 75cc engine as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Q Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Cheers all for the tips on the exhaust on my ped, the bike idles OK with the exhaust off so I reckon there is a restriction there. Here it is, notice the oily shite under the joint between the end can and the pipe, looks like it might have been leaking from there for a while? The pipe is not as easy to blow through as I think it should be, so I'm gonna get busy with the caustic soda, and maybe even re-pack the end can as it is pretty oiled up at one end. I'll also check the oil pump setting as there must be a reason the exhaust is this full of shite. Exhaust packing just seems to be glassfibre, is this something I can get from B&Q as it seems to be relatively expensive for small amounts if described as silencer packing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Look in the bit that bolts to the cylinder head, is there a restriction piece ( penny washer with a small hole in it) in there still? Whip the end can off and try again to see if that removed the restriction to flow Stuffing the end can with loft insulation will work but isn't recommended, a big of proper stranded stuff designed for the job is better. strangeangel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Also check someone didn't repackaged the silencer by stuffing copious quantities of fibreglass straight down the exhaust.... Oil pump will be fine 99% of the time problem will have been £2 per litre value 2 stroke oil.... Dave_Q 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Q Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Think you might be right with the oil. The silencer was correctly packed but pretty oily. I didn't have any caustic soda but did have washing soda so mixed up a v. strong and hot solution, this bought out quite a lot of oily crap from the expansion chamber. I followed up with foaming oven cleaner and water is now flowing through it easily and coming out clean. I will repack the silencer and I guess I should clean what I can of the exhaust port as that will likely be in a similar condition. strangeangel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DodgeRover Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 That silencer looks fine - I would put it back as it is Dave_Q 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Q Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 OK thanks. I've got a colleague at work who might have some packing in his stash I can have for £0, if not I'll put it back together as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 That silencer looks fine - I would put it back as it is HURL IT INTO THE SEA AND ANNOY THE NEIGHBOURSFTFY Aston Martin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martc Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 I didn't have any caustic soda but did have washing soda so mixed up a v. strong and hot solution, this bought out quite a lot of oily crap from the expansion chamber. I followed up with foaming oven cleaner and water is now flowing through it easily and coming out clean. I will repack the silencer and I guess I should clean what I can of the exhaust port as that will likely be in a similar condition.Foaming oven cleaner usually contains caustic soda and is a viable alternative to caustic pellets+water, but not as strong. Remember kids, caustic solutions are more dangerous than acidic ones, so be careful out there. strangeangel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangeangel Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Am I imagining things tha the Caren came with a 75cc engine as well? I didn't think so, are you thinking of the NF75? UltraWomble and Aston Martin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Could well be- those engines will fit straight to a PA50 Camino fame for OMGNOBRAKES fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panhard65 Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 I have the secondhand engine all fitted and running in the Elyseo now and it is booked in for an mot tomorrow as it runs out in early December. I am pretty sure it will need a front tyre and maybe a number plate as well. The annoying thing is that having now ridden it I don't really like it. The seat just seems too wide which I thought would be a good thing being a bit of a fat bastard but really it just make me sit a bit too far forward so it will have to go. It won't be really cheap though as it has cost me a lot more than I wanted to spend to get it back up and running. Would £500 be a sensible starting price for a 1 owner Elyseo 125 with 45k on the clock ? The mot history was prefect and it has never failed but I expect that to change in the morning.. Aston Martin, Jerzy Woking and Six-cylinder 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangeangel Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 £500 is probably a bit strong, this one just sold for £410 with most of a year's ticket and 5K miles, looks tidy, has some new bits, and has already had the immobiliser bypass mod done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraWomble Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 1 owner Elyseo 125 with 45k on the clock Rubs chin...Somerset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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