More tax

[horriblemercedes]

10 hours ago, Burnside said:

Mine's up to £335 a year now, plus my Car will only run on E5 pez which is another bloody rip off.

Yet they class my car as Ulez compliant for nearby Birmingham.

But if I had the so called evil polluting Diesel Version, I'd pay just £210 Road Tax and be better off fuel cost / MPG wise too.

So it just proves what a load of old bollocks this all is on the environmental angle. 

Can't wait for my Insurance renewal in May, to see what shit they come out with too.

Still whatever happens in the future with the soring costs of motoring, they won't get me back on public transport or worse in a fucking EV. 

 

But you're comparing apples and oranges. The tax is based on officially measured CO2 emissions and that is simply a direct reflection of fuel consumption

The clean air zones are bsaed on nitrogen oxide production, and that is somewhat more complicated. You're not taxed on NOx

[Metal Guru]

On 03/04/2024 at 10:09, horriblemercedes said:

I probably do it 6-10 times per year and the cheque is always there within a couple of days. DVLA seems very organised with getting them posted out, at least

I’ve just traded in a car. Road tax refund took 3 days.

[UltraWomble]

Looks like in 'Merica they are trying to legislate a "pay per mile" road taxation system. Which if your car is too old may legislate it off the road ( or so the American road lobby are saying)

Could the government here do the same?
 

Or just keep increasing road tax till it becomes uneconomical to tax your shitter?

[Rocket88]

That’s why we’re going down the tax exempt route….

[Metal Guru]

1 hour ago, Rocket88 said:

That’s why we’re going down the tax exempt route….

I thought it was 25 years for exemption (my car is 21, thinking it might just get there), but now find it’s 40.  When did it change or am I wrong in thinking it used to be 25?

I noticed steam powered vehicles are exempt. In terms of CO2 per km ( not to mention kg if soot per km), they must be the worst possible case.

[horriblemercedes]

28 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

I thought it was 25 years for exemption (my car is 21, thinking it might just get there), but now find it’s 40.  When did it change or am I wrong in thinking it used to be 25?

I noticed steam powered vehicles are exempt. In terms of CO2 per km ( not to mention kg if soot per km), they must be the worst possible case.

It was 25 years but changed in 1998 (was frozen at pre-1973 and the rolling exemption stopped)

 

Then about 10 years ago, it became a 40 year rolling exemption like the old 25 year one.

[Rust Collector]

2 hours ago, UltraWomble said:

Looks like in 'Merica they are trying to legislate a "pay per mile" road taxation system. Which if your car is too old may legislate it off the road ( or so the American road lobby are saying)

Could the government here do the same?
 

Or just keep increasing road tax till it becomes uneconomical to tax your shitter?

That sounded interesting, so I looked it up. First relevant link says:

Quote

 

A viral image on Facebook spread that Biden’s “driving tax” would charge taxpayers 8 cents per mile. That is false. Again, the pilot program is basically an experiment and a trial—it doesn’t implement an actual tax.

Here’s the truth, in a nutshell:

• Participation in the program is voluntary, and all tax fees collected from participants will be reimbursed during the pilot.
• Based on a Treasury Department calculation, the fees would amount to be a little bit less than one cent per mile.

 

Sauce: https://www.lemonade.com/car/explained/pay-per-mile-tax/

It sounded scary as a headline, but if we go with the rate they suggest (a shade under a cent, so let's call that 0.9 cents or 0.7 pence) then if we go with the average UK yearly mileage (apparently this is only 6.5k miles now?!) then your yearly tax would be £45.50

I currently pay something like £1,500 a year on average across our cars. I reckon I do about 10k miles a year, which works out about 15p a mile, or if I ran just one car (the horror!) then it's about 4.1p a mile in tax.

So if a mileage based tax came into effect then I could be quids in depending on how it's administered.

Older cars not suited to telemetry will still have an odometer that's read at MOT time. Three choices I could see for those;

1) keep the existing tax brackets, and keep tightening the clamps on our nipples yearly (boo!)

2) accept the the amount of cars that fall in this bracket will be nominal compared the amount of cars in 'normal' usage that can support telemetry. Make a telemetry exempt tax class and use the MOT odometer reading for these vehicles to generate a value for the tax owed. Request a mandatory mileage reading when cars are SORN or sold. Accept that there is a potential for clocking/erroneous readings but as a proportion of total tax collected this should be negligible - the utility companies are happy enough to take our money this way where we have a 'dumb' meter.

3) bundle anything incompatible with telemetry into the historic taxation class (in our dreams).

 

[Metal Guru]

4 minutes ago, Rust Collector said:

That sounded interesting, so I looked it up. First relevant link says:

Sauce: https://www.lemonade.com/car/explained/pay-per-mile-tax/

It sounded scary as a headline, but if we go with the rate they suggest (a shade under a cent, so let's call that 0.9 cents or 0.7 pence) then if we go with the average UK yearly mileage (apparently this is only 6.5k miles now?!) then your yearly tax would be £45.50

I currently pay something like £1,500 a year on average across our cars. I reckon I do about 10k miles a year, which works out about 15p a mile, or if I ran just one car (the horror!) then it's about 4.1p a mile in tax.

So if a mileage based tax came into effect then I could be quids in depending on how it's administered.

Older cars not suited to telemetry will still have an odometer that's read at MOT time. Three choices I could see for those;

1) keep the existing tax brackets, and keep tightening the clamps on our nipples yearly (boo!)

2) accept the the amount of cars that fall in this bracket will be nominal compared the amount of cars in 'normal' usage that can support telemetry. Make a telemetry exempt tax class and use the MOT odometer reading for these vehicles to generate a value for the tax owed. Request a mandatory mileage reading when cars are SORN or sold. Accept that there is a potential for clocking/erroneous readings but as a proportion of total tax collected this should be negligible - the utility companies are happy enough to take our money this way where we have a 'dumb' meter.

3) bundle anything incompatible with telemetry into the historic taxation class (in our dreams).

 

Telemetry can easily be fitted to any car. See all the insurance companies that do it for young drivers . 

[Rust Collector]

3 minutes ago, Metal Guru said:

Telemetry can easily be fitted to any car. See all the insurance companies that do it for young drivers . 

When that sort of insurance used to come up in my searches (not for a little while now, forunately/sadly whichever way you look at it!) a lot of the insurers had age limits on the cars - it lined up roughly with OBD 2 so I assumed that's how they were doing it.

Theoretically, I reckon MOT readings would be a better option when you think about it for older cars. Because if a car didn't come from the factory with telemetry inbuilt then there is the opportunity for an owner to tamper with the box if you're thinking it's something that just has a 12v power feed and is spliced into the loom.

I think for cars to rely on telemetry for taxation, you would want the black box to be able to check itself against to odometer - I don't know if that is possible or not through OBD if the car is new enough.

[Burnside]

5 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

But you're comparing apples and oranges. The tax is based on officially measured CO2 emissions and that is simply a direct reflection of fuel consumption

The clean air zones are bsaed on nitrogen oxide production, and that is somewhat more complicated. You're not taxed on NOx

Whatever they 'based' it on, it all shite in my book anyway. 

[rattlecan]

16 hours ago, Burnside said:

Mine's up to £335 a year now, plus my Car will only run on E5 pez which is another bloody rip off.

Yet they class my car as Ulez compliant for nearby Birmingham.

But if I had the so called evil polluting Diesel Version, I'd pay just £210 Road Tax and be better off fuel cost / MPG wise too.

So it just proves what a load of old bollocks this all is on the environmental angle. 

Can't wait for my Insurance renewal in May, to see what shit they come out with too.

Still whatever happens in the future with the soring costs of motoring, they won't get me back on public transport or worse in a fucking EV. 

 

I wouldn’t worry too much about the E5 being a rip off. I run every single petrol vehicle I own (lots of motorcycles ya see) on it, as E10 is basically liquified dogshit, so it’s a no brainer. Also you WILL get better consumption so when you add up the higher price per litre it’s about same

[captain_70s]

I imagine a per mile tax would be quite lucrative in the states where their entire infrastructure is built around private car ownership with no alternative outside of major cities.

[Metal Guru]

8 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

I imagine a per mile tax would be quite lucrative in the states where their entire infrastructure is built around private car ownership with no alternative outside of major cities.

 

23 hours ago, Rust Collector said:

That sounded interesting, so I looked it up. First relevant link says:

Sauce: https://www.lemonade.com/car/explained/pay-per-mile-tax/

It sounded scary as a headline, but if we go with the rate they suggest (a shade under a cent, so let's call that 0.9 cents or 0.7 pence) then if we go with the average UK yearly mileage (apparently this is only 6.5k miles now?!) then your yearly tax would be £45.50

I currently pay something like £1,500 a year on average across our cars. I reckon I do about 10k miles a year, which works out about 15p a mile, or if I ran just one car (the horror!) then it's about 4.1p a mile in tax.

So if a mileage based tax came into effect then I could be quids in depending on how it's administered.

Older cars not suited to telemetry will still have an odometer that's read at MOT time. Three choices I could see for those;

1) keep the existing tax brackets, and keep tightening the clamps on our nipples yearly (boo!)

2) accept the the amount of cars that fall in this bracket will be nominal compared the amount of cars in 'normal' usage that can support telemetry. Make a telemetry exempt tax class and use the MOT odometer reading for these vehicles to generate a value for the tax owed. Request a mandatory mileage reading when cars are SORN or sold. Accept that there is a potential for clocking/erroneous readings but as a proportion of total tax collected this should be negligible - the utility companies are happy enough to take our money this way where we have a 'dumb' meter.

3) bundle anything incompatible with telemetry into the historic taxation class (in our dreams).

 

If you think any government here is going to introduce a mileage tax at less than a penny a mile then I’m sorry to tell you Santa and the Easter bunny aren’t real either.

Ive seen 3p suggested as a starter for low mileage drivers rising to 5p for average and above. On top of that , there will be peak time surcharges 20p? ( because everyone goes to work at 8am for the sheer fun of it ) and busy roads and probably motorways. And of course ULEZ in every town and city centre.

[Rust Collector]

3 hours ago, Metal Guru said:

 

If you think any government here is going to introduce a mileage tax at less than a penny a mile then I’m sorry to tell you Santa and the Easter bunny aren’t real either.

Ive seen 3p suggested as a starter for low mileage drivers rising to 5p for average and above. On top of that , there will be peak time surcharges 20p? ( because everyone goes to work at 8am for the sheer fun of it ) and busy roads and probably motorways. And of course ULEZ in every town and city centre.

I’m only quoting the rate suggested in the American scheme as that’s the only data I’ve seen - if you would link to where rates have been suggested by the uk government then I’d be interested to have a read of that too.

[sheffcortinacentre]

Few years back one was suggested & the government automatically moved the decimal point in the price suggested .

[Metal Guru]

11 minutes ago, sheffcortinacentre said:

Few years back one was suggested & the government automatically moved the decimal point in the price suggested .

You can guarantee any “change” in taxation always means 95% of people pay more.

[brownnova]

On 05/04/2024 at 08:32, grogee said:

Roughly four years before the Maestro becomes exempt, if the current structure remains unchanged. 

I do think it would be just my luck if this changes just as my cars start to become tax exempt… April 2026 for the Yellow 2CV… 

[sierraman]

Can you imagine them bringing that in though? It would be political suicide. Like all these other theories like scrapping the state pension or completely privatising the NHS. The state pension thing gets brought up periodically, can you imagine people paying into the system for a lifetime then the government at the time saying ‘Sorry We can’t afford it so…’ It would be about the quickest way to start a civil war. 

[Wack]

2 hours ago, sierraman said:

 The state pension thing gets brought up periodically, can you imagine people paying into the system for a lifetime then the government at the time saying ‘Sorry We can’t afford it so…’ It would be about the quickest way to start a civil war. 

It's bad enough them calling it a benefit when you need to have paid in for decades to qualify for it 

[Jerzy Woking]

On 05/04/2024 at 11:24, UltraWomble said:

Looks like in 'Merica they are trying to legislate a "pay per mile" road taxation system. Which if your car is too old may legislate it off the road ( or so the American road lobby are saying)

Could the government here do the same?
 

Or just keep increasing road tax till it becomes uneconomical to tax your shitter?

The main AP7 motorway from the French border to Malaga in the south was a Toll road until around covid time in 2020, when the tolls on most sections were removed.

The Spanish government once put forward charging €0.01 per kilometre driven, but that got dropped. Still no updates on whether or not the tolls will come back. Not that I have any idea what the toll fees were.

Still don't know how car tax is calculate here, as its down to each town to decide what car is taxed at what figure.

 

[nev_jr]

675 quid for my mum's Zafira. Fuck that, bye Zafira.

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, nev_jr said:

675 quid for my mum's Zafira. Fuck that, bye Zafira.

Get the fucker crushed! 🤣

[Dobloseven]

1 hour ago, nev_jr said:

675 quid for my mum's Zafira. Fuck that, bye Zafira.

How does that work?

[nev_jr]

6 hours ago, Dobloseven said:

How does that work?

A strong dismay for Vauxhalls?