Supernaut's Cars - 323i / Megane

[Supernaut]

Well, something in the Clio is definitely unhappy... but what?

I went back out to it today and it was stone dead. 0.5V across the battery.

I jumped it from the BMW and it started up fine, but the warning lights stayed on.

So I shut it back down again and checked the battery connections, and put them back on nice and tight.

Gave it another jump and left it idling. The voltage crept up to 14V, but the STOP and charge indicator lights remained on.

I took it for a spin round the block and at 20mph the ABS warning, brake warning, and airbag warning lights all join the party. However, they go back out again below 20mph.

Gearchanges are also rough as anything due to it now wanting to shoot back down to idle as quickly as possible when depressing the clutch.

I even switched it off and it restarted by itself.

 

 

I do remember the battery on the Rexton would show healthy voltage but it was still too weak to crank it over or really do anything. Is it just the battery, or is there a common connector that fails on smol Renaults?

[dome]

3 hours ago, Supernaut said:

 

I took it for a spin round the block and at 20mph the ABS warning, brake warning, and airbag warning lights all join the party. However, they go back out again below 20mph.

 

When the Rangeys alternator was overcharging I had these symptoms. Voltage fine at idle but give it a rev and it went up to 18v and the dash lit up like a Christmas tree.

TLDR-connect a voltmeter and give it a rev

[mercedade]

I ran a Clio for a while that had an issue with shorting - a metal block/bracket that ran across a powered feed, along the top/back of the engine?

[Supernaut]

18V at 2,000rpm suggests borked voltage regulator.

 

Actually finding one in the run-up to a bank holiday weekend is proving infuriating.

[Supernaut]

With a bit of help from @Lacquer Peel, what started as this:

Became this:

 

Just to get this tiny wee voltage regulator out:

It was the original part going by the late-2000 manufacture date stamped on it! Replacement ordered.

 

 

Luckily we didn't need to remove the engine mount to release the belt tension, as I originally feared. It was possible with just the wheel off and from reaching in from underneath.

 

 

[Lacquer Peel]

I never want to replace an aux belt on one of these. 

[Supernaut]

Sometimes, one needs to drive one's cars, rather than constantly being annoyed that they're broken.

Oh, what a hardship. I'm being forced into using the inline-6 RWD coupe because the smol hatchback is broken.

How awful.

What a cracking car it still is. It just lazily soaks up the miles. For something with 'only' 170hp it'll quite happily reel in the horizon even from low revs.

[Supernaut]

 

 

[Supernaut]

So.

I'll admit, since I bought the Clio it's had a minor, irritating issue.

When started from stone cold, it wouldn't idle. By that, I mean it would cut out unless I held the revs on the pedal for about 30 seconds or so.

Today, I took apart the intake, cleaned some stuff with carb cleaner, then put it back together.

I found a thing with a plunger on it and just idly shoved the plunger all the way in and put it back together.

 

That was the idle control valve. The plunger had been doing absolutely nothing. As highlighted by the fact it stayed fully retracted and the car tried to 'idle' at 4k rpm!

Then I fully extended it, and it wouldn't idle at all, no matter how long I held it on the throttle.

I managed to manually adjust it through trial and error so it idles at a reasonable speed (just over 1k rpm) and have ordered a replacement. It's at least drivable again for now.

At least it's easy to mess about with being located right on top of the engine.

The manufacture date printed on that one is from... mid-2000. Even more interesting* is that I found an invoice for fitting an idle control valve in 2020 in the paperwork.

Aye, right!

[bear-in-the-air]

On 5/11/2023 at 9:48 PM, Supernaut said:

 

 

Funnily enough, I had similar symptoms and same fix on mine maybe a month ago, and the replacement part is almost identical.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192715975494

Modular bosch altenators I guess. Glad to see you you got the french christmas tree sorted.

[Supernaut]

20 minutes ago, bear-in-the-air said:

Funnily enough, I had similar symptoms and same fix on mine maybe a month ago, and the replacement part is almost identical.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192715975494

Modular bosch altenators I guess. Glad to see you you got the french christmas tree sorted.

Oh aye. That Bosch alternator regulator fits all sorts from BMWs, Minis, Mercedes Vitos, Vauxhalls, Nissans... the list goes on.

The only difference is the shape of the plug on it. I had to get the Renault (and Vauxhall?) specific one with the rounded edges and the step in it.

 

One of these is a finely tuned sports car, the other is a Porsche.

[Supernaut]

Some highlights from the car show over in Bridge of Allan earlier.

 

[Supernaut]

 

[AnnoyingPentium]

Some cracking photos there. I really like that red 850.

[Dyslexic Viking]

The beige 240 is almost identical to the one I had, I miss it, great cars.

[jmsguzzi]

19 hours ago, Supernaut said:

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, looks like another GTX, a lot shinier than mine though!

[scooobydont]

It's a fantastic show, the variety is brilliant, I always go (and used to be in th club that organise it). I never take photos though...

[Supernaut]

Home from pissing about in Galloway Forest.

 

Of course the front nearside brake has decided to start squeaking. That can wait until tomorrow.

[Supernaut]

Stripped down and greased the front brakes on the Clio earlier this morning. That took all of what felt like 5 minutes. The joys of working on such a small car is that everything on it is small.

The outer nearside pad was a little bit sticky, so I went over the carriers with a file. Did both sides of the car just for peace of mind.

 

I then investigated the throttle pedal. It seemed to sit really high, and didn't go all the way to the floor at full throttle. I just stood on it forcefully and the entire cable and sheath re-adjusted itself. Now when the throttle is closed, the pedal sits level with the brake pedal. It also goes all the way to the floor now. Previously, the cable looked a bit loose going up to the throttle body, but now it looks healthier.

 

I also checked both my cars' statuses for the Glasgow LEZ.

Yay!

 

That's... not really a surprise.

[Supernaut]

I'm at my wits end with the Clio now.

It just won't idle.

 

The symptoms are:

- When started from stone cold, it cuts out unless I hold it on the throttle pedal. It keeps trying to idle far too low.

- Once I get a reading on the temp gauge it'll idle. Just. I'm talking about 600 rpm.

- Once up to temperature it'll idle at a normal speed.

This behaviour makes it very difficult to drive out of my car park when I first start it, unless I sit there manually holding it at 1,500rpm for at least a minute. Considering I bought this car with the intention of using it, it's not ideal.

 

So far I've replaced the idle control valve and checked the crank sensor. It almost seems as though the car just isn't using the idle control valve. I've seen no signs of it ever moving. I can 'manually' set it in a position so it runs like above. If I move it even a fraction of a mm further it then idles at 1,500rpm when cold and goes over 2,000rpm when warm. When set like this, the revs will hang really badly if I touch the pedal too.

 

Yesterday, I took it for a drive after fitting the new ICV and it almost seemed to be behaving itself. Idling at bang on 1,000rpm. However, this morning it went back to cutting out when cold.

 

Surely somebody in the trade has dealt with a Renault engine pulling this bullshit before? It's a 1.6 16v.

[Supernaut]

I just unplugged the MAP sensor and that made no difference to its behaviour.

 

...is this something to consider? Hmmm.

[Split_Pin]

Does it have a coolant temperature sensor? Usually a Renner with a dodgy crank sensor will do a no start.

[Supernaut]

17 minutes ago, Split_Pin said:

Does it have a coolant temperature sensor? Usually a Renner with a dodgy crank sensor will do a no start.

Yes, but it's just two pins, and the temperature gauge functions fine.

When I removed the crank sensor it wouldn't start at all. Put it back in and it starts but it's still idling badly.

 

I've been googling the symptoms of a dead MAP sensor and they do seem to line up nicely with what I'm experiencing. The fact that I unplugged it with no difference in its behaviour (as I posted earlier) suggests that may be the smoking gun.

I may ask the local factors for a price for one tomorrow morning.

[Split_Pin]

26 minutes ago, Supernaut said:

Yes, but it's just two pins, and the temperature gauge functions fine.

When I removed the crank sensor it wouldn't start at all. Put it back in and it starts but it's still idling badly.

 

I've been googling the symptoms of a dead MAP sensor and they do seem to line up nicely with what I'm experiencing. The fact that I unplugged it with no difference in its behaviour (as I posted earlier) suggests that may be the smoking gun.

I may ask the local factors for a price for one tomorrow morning.

The sender for the temp guage and the coolant temp sensor are usually two completely separate things.

A dead CTS will either tell the engine it's cold all the time and it will overfuel to fuck or the opposite,  which sounds like it could possibly be your issue.

[Supernaut]

All I can find says there is but one coolant temperature sensor on this engine.

There is, however, an intake air temperature sensor too.

[Split_Pin]

At this stage it needs plugged in otherwise its parts darts. Have you asked Clio Stu for a steer?

Some Google Fu suggests degradation of the wiring right behind the throttle body, other searches indicate a corroded earth wire. All potentially free things to check first.

[Supernaut]

22 hours ago, Split_Pin said:

At this stage it needs plugged in otherwise its parts darts. Have you asked Clio Stu for a steer?

Some Google Fu suggests degradation of the wiring right behind the throttle body, other searches indicate a corroded earth wire. All potentially free things to check first.

Yeah... it seems to have been a longstanding issue with this car. I'll leave it at that.

[Split_Pin]

OK well onwards and upwards as its a cool wee car. I'd have a look at the wiring behind the throttle body first. I'm just thinking because the ICV is doing nothing and you've already replaced it, it sounds like it's either not getting a signal or not getting power.

[juular]

Have you ruled out a vacuum leak elsewhere?

Use a spray bottle of water on every pipe and join on the intake side, and if the idle fluctuates at all there's a leak. 

[Supernaut]

I've just had a poke about with my basic multimeter.

First of all, there is no wiring down behind the back of the engine. It's all up top.

Values as follows:

ICV gets 12V with ign on, and has 55ohm resistance across the pins.

Both the MAP sensor and the intake air temp sensors get 5V with ign on, and both have infinite resistance across them. Hmmmmmm...

 

I know that a certain local member has a decent bit of diagnostic kit, so that may get deployed soon-ish.