1987 Lotus Excel SE

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

40 minutes ago, Minimad5 said:

Is it rusty inside too ?

I'd be tempted to try Vactan the exterior, then cover it with some Buzzweld product (they do loads of good quality paint / protection)

It's not rusty inside but it's stained of course with the dry-out residue of the coolant.  I was thinking of trying to make the inside 'like new' too so interested to hear your thoughts on the inside.

 

Will look at vactan and buzzweld.  Do I just sand the raised stuff off?  or use a drill with sande/wire brush bit i mean (too much elbow grease for me to undertake...........had an accident in january and hurt my rotator cuff)?

[egg]

Umm, I'd be tempted to get a new one, but yeah, I see they ain't cheap. But then again, what price not losing your engines cooling?

https://www.allisport.com/shop/performance-products/tanks-and-reservoirs/header-tanks/lotus-excel-se-replacement-alloy-header-tank/

[Minimad5]

In all honesty, what the user above (egg) has linked too, I'd actually be tempted to just buy that.

No need to buy products, no need to mess about painting/ sanding / grinding stuff, also no potential pinholes causing HGF, due to loss of coolant.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

I just don't have the budget for that I'm afraid egg.  I'm already at another £1,000 in parts just to get it finished; extremely reluctant to commit to something like that at the moment.  

I've got a couple of contacts (from fb mktplace) with used examples (that look in better nick than mine) but right now am going to try and revitalise mine.  

A risk, yes. but needs must at the moment.

The £1,000 looks like this;

£300- 400 for new tyres (4 x 205 50 15's, not the OE 215 50 15's - look them up - absolutely eye-watering - you're looking at £1,200 unless you're  prepared to go down a track day tyre option............which I'm worried about - not that I mind track day tyres.........but mine will be for the road and if there's one thing that happens alot in Pembrokeshire it's rain and I'm not sure a track day tyre is any good in the rain?  Would love to hear people's experience on that front).  So I'm erring on the side of caution and it's roughly £60-£80 for a tyre (the absolute pinnacle are £120).  225/50/15's rub on full lock (that's what the car has at the moment - they look slightly over-wide imo).  I would love to have the car on 4 OE width tyres and I continue to look everywhere but they are such a rare width it's a real shame (and it really sticks in the craw).  That's what I've not bought them yet, ie committed to the wrong size.  I'm holding out for as long as I can!   I'm really hoping somehting will turn up and I'll be able to sit the car on the oe choice.

£200 for 4 x wheel refurb.

I need two x rear dampers (£90 each so £180) and also a drivers side rear passenger seat belt thingy (metal bar that supports the bolts that the seat belt is secured to - no idea what you call it - £60 with vat and p&p)

Timing belt (£50) plus oil £50

Mot £50

Front brakes (£27 each from autodoc) - the ones on the car look v rusty but in good nick - I might try and use them and see if they clean up.  If not .................

And I need the over-the-suspension exhaust connectors (x2) too (£40 a side roughly) to as the ones on the car are totally stuffed.  They are simple things to look at but I don't have a pipe-bender and frankly...........it is what it is.  

And perhaps some rear-diff oil too, plus sundries.  Et voila.

And that's not even touching the paintwork or having professional detail done etc etc.  I'd like some new door speakers as well (£30-40 perhaps?).

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

And there's something else I've missed but can't remember right now!  Bonnet sound deadening for one...........but there's something else that took me up to the £950 mark.  I'll remember at 2am!

[grogee]

I think I might have bodged a different (plastic) degas tank onto the car, but I understand that's not going to please the rivet counter brigade. 

An alternative might be the fuel tank coating stuff (POR-15). I don't know if it's suitable for coolant but they do kits for motorbike fuel tanks that will work for your little cylinder. 

Related: TWO fucking filler caps. Come on Lotus guys, what are you playing at? 

Re: your unmatching paint and stuff - if it makes you feel better, I paint stuff on the underside or hidden spots ANY COLOUR I LIKE depending on what tin is open at the time. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

29 minutes ago, grogee said:

Related: TWO fucking filler caps. Come on Lotus guys, what are you playing at? 

Any fancy pants reason for having two? If not then could you use a generic piece instea

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

7 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

Any fancy pants reason for having two? If not then could you use a generic piece instea

I've no idea..........but Lotus.  They do seem to have a knack of over-indulgence at times in certain area (with a total commitment for under-indulgence elsewhere!).  

Rather than me try and fudge an explanation, here's someone with a more ordered-mind to explain (nicked it off Team excel website - thanks);

 

The cooling system in the Excel is pretty conventional - a belt-driven water pump on the front of the engine circulates coolant through the block. A thermostat at the top of engine opens at a set temperature (72 or 82 degrees Celsius, depending on market) to allow it to circulate through the radiator, and a take off at the back circulates coolant through the heater matrix behind the dash when the valve is opened using the dashboard controls.

One or two electric fans operate when the electric otterswitch senses coolant in the top hose getting too warm (somewhere around 90 celsius). Thanks to some clever wiring, involving diodes, if a fan motor fails or the fan relay fails (where fitted), the "fan fail" light on the dash will illuminate. These fans also run if aircon is in use, to keep the a/c condenser cool.

The "fan fail" doubles up as a low coolant warning, via the sensor on the header tank, and it's common for new owners to be caught out by this. Rule 1 of fan fail is - check the coolant level.

Depending on age and specification - two different header tanks were fitted. The simpler is the single cap, single compartment, tank - this has a standard pressure cap and, if it needs to vent, will lose coolant through the overflow pipe onto the road.

The late models, particularly SEs, have a twin tank system, where the larger twin-cap tank is actually partitioned roughly in the middle. The front compartment is the usual coolant reservoir and is linked, by a small capillary pipe, to the normally empty rear compartment. As heat builds up, coolant can overflow into the rear compartment, being drawn back through the pipe when the system cools down again. This reduces instances of coolant loss - but only if you have the right sort of cap on each compartment. The front needs a standard BLANKING cap (not pressure relief, so no springs) so that pressure can build up. (If you do put a pressure relief cap on the front - there's nowhere for the coolant to go when the valve operates anyway - there's no overflow on the filler neck). The rear, which is a larger cap on the Lotus tank, is a pressure relief to allow coolant to escape via the overflow pipe as a last resort.  (If you put a blanking cap on the rear tank, the system will never pressurise because it's open to atmosphere, at the overflow, all the time.)

Topping up is done through the FRONT tank and the level should sit just below the bottom of the filler neck. Don't worry about level in the rear compartment, it'll sort itself out as long as you keep the front at the right level.

Beware, though, the tanks are steel and do corrode. If you get a build up of rust inside the twin-cap tank it can block the capillary tube and the whole system will stop working properly, leading to leaks and overheating. Best bet then is to replace with an aluminium tank - though you may need to play around a little to get the wiring for the coolant sensor right, depending on supplier.  ("coolant sensor" is a fancy name for what is, essentially, a nail with an insulating and sealing grommet around it - as long as the "sensor" is immersed in coolant it completes an electrical circuit via the coolant and tank body. If that circuit breaks, the Fan Fail light comes on as a low coolant warning).

It's a simple job - the three nuts that hold the tank to the body can be accessed from the wheel arch, without taking the wheel off. The level sensor can be pulled out of the old tank and inserted into the new one, using something like windscreen washer pipe to make an electrical insulating grommet, and a small blob of silicone sealant to ensure that coolant won't leak out.

 

Based on that............I just know I'm going to end buying the tank that egg posted above.  I had spotted it before ...........but dismissed it as out of reach for the moment..............but as you all have mentioned...........questions remain as to it's ability to retain pressure/water tightness and it's not amazing inside but doesn't look punctured or in terrible terrible nick tbh.  V light brown but not rusty.  Wondering if I could put some bicarbonate of soda and some pebbles in it and pop some boiling water in and see if that'll clean it by shaking (covering all the holes of course, phnarr phnarr!). Sol childish.  I want to see if it'll work...........which is fine............but long term trust?  I'm going to have to change it.  

As it came with this type of bottle, it's going to stay.  I'm not mucking about with the system (although I think that would make sense - all the single cap bottles do is vent to the road which isn't a disaster per se), it's just not what came with the car.  And OE yeah? 

(But whisper it - I do have a hankering for lowered springs and adjustable suspension - bearing in mind I'm going to have to change the rear dampers anyway...........in for a penny in for £500.) BUT.MUST.RESIST. for the moment.  Think MOT Savaloy.  Just the MOT.  get that and then it becomes a 'rolling' restoration, rather than a massive table ornament presently. 

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

I've got the right caps by the way - here they are, after I cleaned them up a little bit (needs more work..........but wasn't sure I was using the right method, don't want to hurt them) so stopped.  I was using a wire-wheel that looks like it's been made with melted down action men.  I've used that instead of the wire brushes simply because I thought it would be kinder. 

Half the time I do stuff it's guess-work and trying to use what I have in the shed than going out and buying something.  Things are not good at the moment work-wise, I literally can't bring myself to buy anything for the car when the family/proper life is the priority and we need to preserve as much of what we have for that (obviously).  So it's meant that I might be compromising my standards or desires for the car (I'd be replacing stuff willy nilly - particularly pressure caps - if I had the money).  I realise that perhaps you're thinking - stop then and do something else with your time - but not having work at the moment has meant I can dedicate a proper hour or two to the car and move it forward.  Family life, as you all know, takes up considerable time and the house/garden/animals (sheep, 6 of them and two rams 6 laying hens - not too much bother them) and other stuff gets in the way.

I've been looking at the Lotus for 2.5 years (there are reasons for this, some beyond my control that I've mentioned previously). 

But now - I've set a deadline and I'm going to try and hit it - I've got literally 31 days. Yes I know.  Much to do ..........but got to get on you know?  (there's a lotus event near me on 2nd may). 

Working on the interior today.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

[grogee]

30 minutes ago, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

lowered springs and adjustable suspension

DO NOT MESS

It's the only bit Lotus got right. You'd be better off spending the money fixing the things they got wrong, eg ridiculous header tank, electrics by Lucas (BTW change the fuel pump, mine failed and left me stranded). 

The only exception to this is if Lotus bits are NLA or £moonlanding. But even then I think I'd be attempting to recreate their setup including standard ride height. 

[grogee]

27 minutes ago, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

Things are not good at the moment work-wise

I'm sorry to hear about this. What is your line of work? Have you checked the Jobs thread in the other section? 

[grogee]

27 minutes ago, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

Try aluminium polish on the caps, the meth head bikers swear by it and it's great on cycle parts too. 

[Rocket88]

Anyone who attempts to restore any of that nice Mr Chapman’s endeavours needs to have testicles of weapons grade titanium. 
Build quality that wouldn’t have passed muster at Moskvitch , along with wilfully obtuse design lash ups….

Good luck!

[EyesWeldedShut]

That does seem very convoluted  indeed, maybe they didn't fancy a big catch can instead of just letting it dribble out onto the road with the single capped ones? Some of the old LR crap I've owned had a hefty bottle (maybe 2 litres) that did that.

1 hour ago, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

It's a simple job - the three nuts that hold the tank to the body can be accessed from the wheel arch, without taking the wheel off.

Go on - was it or is this a Haynes BoL type statement

[garethj]

Fantastic work!  I’d agree with egg’s suggestion of a new tank, it sounds like the early simpler one was superseded and they wouldn’t have spent all that money unless they had to.

Worth checking eBay or facebook groups to see if second hand ones exist.

If you want to persevere with the original one, pressure test it before cleaning it up.  It would be shit to spend hours on it only to find pinholes everywhere.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

2 hours ago, grogee said:

DO NOT MESS

It's the only bit Lotus got right. You'd be better off spending the money fixing the things they got wrong, eg ridiculous header tank, electrics by Lucas (BTW change the fuel pump, mine failed and left me stranded). 

The only exception to this is if Lotus bits are NLA or £moonlanding. But even then I think I'd be attempting to recreate their setup including standard ride height. 

I promise not to..........initially!    I'll drive it as it is and then see what I think.    

 

And I'm in property (land) but the mkt and where I am (literally no jobs near me in what I do) mean must travel and companies dont really like it.  Just got to keep going in the search however.  I've only recently had access to the wider forum(s) so will have a look.  

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

1 hour ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

That does seem very convoluted  indeed, maybe they didn't fancy a big catch can instead of just letting it dribble out onto the road with the single capped ones? Some of the old LR crap I've owned had a hefty bottle (maybe 2 litres) that did that.

Go on - was it or is this a Haynes BoL type statement

Yeah............no.    absolutely shocking frankly.  all three nuts were solid with rust and despite leaving them to think about how naughty they'd been overnight (ok, doused in penetration oil) one snapped off and the other two came off reluctantly (have replaced).  So exactly like Haynes then.............!  fitting is the same as removal etc etc!

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

36 minutes ago, garethj said:

Fantastic work!  I’d agree with egg’s suggestion of a new tank, it sounds like the early simpler one was superseded and they wouldn’t have spent all that money unless they had to.

Worth checking eBay or facebook groups to see if second hand ones exist.

If you want to persevere with the original one, pressure test it before cleaning it up.  It would be shit to spend hours on it only to find pinholes everywhere.

Totally agree - will pressure test and check it (but there will always be a question mark on it) and I've got two fb ones but they look not-quite-as-sorry-as-mine-but-still-not epic you know?  

But.......mot..........can it survive the 3 mile trip there and back?  I think so.  So.  no change til mot pass.  

 

There's just lots of other things that take priority.  

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

Been working on the passenger window frame this morning.  (needs replacing).  More on that tonight.

[grogee]

38 minutes ago, garethj said:

Fantastic work!  I’d agree with egg’s suggestion of a new tank, it sounds like the early simpler one was superseded and they wouldn’t have spent all that money unless they had to.

I think this might have been a regulations thing - eg early Excels and other cars were allowed to dribble coolant from new, then the environmental regs changed to state the systems must be 'sealed'. And the cheapest way of making the Excel comply was the twin tank thing (low volume so tooling up for a plastic tank was not viable) 

[grogee]

Also, you may already know this stuff from the forum, but... 

Tuning the carbs properly requires a rolling road. Sure you can get it to run and pass MoT but to get the best out of the engine requires it to be tested under load. 

Just in case you were wondering how to spend all that money you have lying about...

[motorpunk]

Brilliant thread. Hello from a fellow Lotus owner. Do you read Absolute Lotus? Some great info on there (I write for this mag, albeit on Elise stuff). Keep up the good work @Oi_Oi_Savaloy! 

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

And so to today's work on the car, in between working on the polytunnel (getting it ready to plant potatoes etc etc this week).  I can send a picture of that too if anyone is interested.  We actually picked it up (literally) from a neighbour's garden a couple of years ago and moved it (with pretty much the entire village helping out - they even stopped the traffic - well, one car......so we could move it.)

There are lots of little things that all need sorting before some of the big stuff can happen (ie, start the engine).  Plus - there's the 'what can i do now, in a snatched hour, that will move the car on?  I'm waiting on some friends to bring things over (gaskets for the water pump) from their work (mechanic friends) for example.

So I started work on the 2nd hand passenger window frame I bought (£140) as opposed to the new new frames that are £600 (would love one............but budget issues as you know).  I took a view - worth a risk if it worked out and not a total disaster if it didn't.  Admittedly I thought it would work out...........it's not like i'm happy to punt £150 or whatever (P&P) to get it to me if it was scrap.  It looked serviceable so thought go for it.  if not - new window frame..........and then I'd have changed my attitude to everything actually (budget wise) and perhaps nothing would have been done.

So current window frame looks like this.  Clearly absolutely stuffed (the other side is in remarkable condition no issues at all).  Got it out of it's packaging and immediately put hydrate 80 all over it (to try and stop the rot).  I also got some masking tape off too (with a bit of heat, paint gun) and generally tried t tidy it up.

And new frame, and with treatment and post-treatment;

It dries clear so you can't see it (from afar);

  Whilst that was drying I turned my attention to the petrol tank.  I already have a new OE fuel pump (an exact one with the same sticker and everything) that came from a v nice bloke of Lotus Excel forum (£35 instead of £90?) but before I put that on I've got to sort out the fuel sender unit (at the top of the tank under the boot cover - can't get to it without pulling the tank forward) as I think it's stuck and either needs a bit of wd40 and manipulation of the arm to get it swinging again (not that swinging..........) or replacing.  I really don't want to be guessing or having to keep the fuel tank topped up in order to avoid guessing.

There are only two bolts holding it in - but they unscrew from inside the rear wheel arch.  I went it a bit OTT on the penetration spray..........

and then they unscrew from the inside.  It would be  much easier if I had some help but the kids were concentrating on breathing so couldn't come out to help  Kids eh? 

Anyhoo - they came undone.

 

That's to the side of the tank by the way.  

I then had to disconnect the fuel line (a surprising amount of fuel left in it........cue me running around like an absolute turnip trying to find containers shallow enough to catch the fuel........and dismally failing for the most-part) and breather hoses (seriously didn't want to come off) and the actual fuel pipe to the outside (failed to get this off so far). 

Forgive the wires in the way in that picture (I'd tucked them out of the way .........but trying to shift the tank saw them coming loose and getting in the way.............and to be perfectly honest with you I just could not be arsed moving them for the photo.)  

It was at this point that I gave up, recognising that I'd hit the wall so to speak and so I tidied up and turned the lights off and shoo'd the chickens into their hut.  

But here's a final photo i took of it earlier in the day (sorry about the mess).  Slowly getting there.

 

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

11 hours ago, motorpunk said:

Brilliant thread. Hello from a fellow Lotus owner. Do you read Absolute Lotus? Some great info on there (I write for this mag, albeit on Elise stuff). Keep up the good work @Oi_Oi_Savaloy! 

I don't (absolute lotus) but I'm going to look it up!  Love an elise.  Went to Spa  Belgium in a mk1 exige in 2007 and that was a very memorable journey.   Thanks for your kind words too.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

Note also that every nut and bolt was absolutely grotty.  Everything fights you on the car.  I guess it's to be expected...........but it turns everything from a 10 min hit and run job to a 30 min palaver.  

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

22 hours ago, grogee said:

Also, you may already know this stuff from the forum, but... 

Tuning the carbs properly requires a rolling road. Sure you can get it to run and pass MoT but to get the best out of the engine requires it to be tested under load. 

Just in case you were wondering how to spend all that money you have lying about...

I thought that was the case Grogee - but I'm hoping that balancing them and then giving it an italian tune-up should get it through it's MOT! 

[Mally]

On 31/03/2024 at 21:35, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

(too much elbow grease for me to undertake...........had an accident in january and hurt my rotator cuff)?

You have my sympathy. It hurts a bit*

Completely tore mine,  It's much better now than they expected.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

3 minutes ago, Mally said:

You have my sympathy. It hurts a bit*

Completely tore mine,  It's much better now than they expected.

I'm doing the exercises etc but yeah - mine wasn't totally stuffed and it hurts at times if I overdo it or try to grab something at an angle it doesn't like.  Hope you make a full recovery

[Mally]

16 minutes ago, Oi_Oi_Savaloy said:

I'm doing the exercises etc but yeah - mine wasn't totally stuffed and it hurts at times if I overdo it or try to grab something at an angle it doesn't like.  Hope you make a full recovery

It's my left arm and I'm right handed so lucky in that respect I can raise it too which they said wouldn't happen.

Couldn't drive for a while, thought I'd need an auto but I've overcome it. Can climb in and out of the pit now. 

Still have the elastic on my house doors but never use it.

Stick some photos up of your other doings after the MOT.

There  are quite a few on here with smallholdings.  Spartacus, RIP, would often show us cars, streams, hens, tractors, rock climbing.