keef Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 25 March 2019 at 10:53 PM, quicksilver said: WLB196X (2 HL - ex Stondon Motor Museum) https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3736/14272597472_fda2e69b3b_c.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 25 March 2019 at 3:07 PM, barefoot said: I took my driving test in 1980, in a Tundra 1750HL - HRA751N - which I'm sure is long gone. HRA 751N ✗ Untaxed Tax due: 1 March 1984 Incorrect tax status? MOT No results returned Incorrect MOT status? Here's my 1976 Tundra 1750 :- Sudsprint and lesapandre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 1 hour ago, lesapandre said: So for about 6 years a direct competitor for the Mk1 Golf - the Mk1 that sold over 6 million units overall... In some respects yes I suppose it was. It might have helped if they'd tweaked the 1500cc engine to make it more lively, put twin carbs on perhaps. As capacity wise it would then have been in a similar bracket to the Golf & could also have been cheaper than the 1750 version, which could then have been more of a Passat competitor. lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 I made up a little spreadsheet from 2019 Q3 Howmanyleft figures as follows :- Model Licenced SORN Austin Maxi 1500 35 22 Austin Maxi 1750 61 52 Austin Maxi 1750 Auto 4 1 Austin Maxi 1750 HL 9 4 Leyland Cars Maxi 1500 4 5 Leyland Cars Maxi 1750 22 18 Leyland Cars Maxi 1750 Auto 0 4 Leyland Cars Maxi 1750 HL 2 5 Austin Morris Maxi 1500 1 6 Austin Morris Maxi 1750 15 48 Austin Morris Maxi 1750 Auto 2 6 Austin Morris Maxi 1750 HL 4 24 Austin Morris Maxi 1750 HL Auto 0 2 Austin Morris Maxi 1750 HLS 11 11 Austin Morris Maxi2 1750 HL 6 19 Austin Morris Maxi2 1750 HL Auto 1 3 Austin Morris Maxi2 1750 HLS 5 9 Austin Morris Maxi2 1750 L 12 31 Austin Morris Maxi2 1750 L Auto 0 3 Totals 194 273 Grand total survivors? 467 lesapandre and Sudsprint 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Do you know total build number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 21 minutes ago, High Jetter said: Do you know total build number? Just under 500,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 0.1% survival rate! Or 1 in a 1000 survive. keef and lesapandre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, keef said: Just under 500,000 Makes you wonder what it might have been if it hadn't got off to a bad start & had been developed/upgraded properly. 500,000 isn't really a bad figure for a car that was introduced & then effectively just ignored by its manufacturer. lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 25 March 2019 at 11:33 PM, BeEP said: DNK 187K ✗ Untaxed Tax due: 9 January 2006 Incorrect tax status? MOT No results returned Incorrect MOT status? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, egg said: 0.1% survival rate! Or 1 in a 1000 survive. What would have killed these? Rust I expect and subframe failure, or gearboxes and engines or all of them? I should think worth so little - a few big problems and scrapped to get this rate of attrition - not unusual I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Not an unusual rate probably, but there are proportionally many more Morris Minors left for example. lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 6 hours ago, lesapandre said: What would have killed these? Rust I expect and subframe failure, or gearboxes and engines or all of them? All of the above. Typical period photo of Maxi :- https://thumbsnap.com/N0w2sTiG Doors seem particularly prone to the rust bug :- as are front wings, especially round headlamps :- Front subframe failure :- Weak/failed synchromesh on gears means engine out, which is quite a lengthy process. lesapandre, Sudsprint, egg and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 11 hours ago, egg said: Not an unusual rate probably, but there are proportionally many more Morris Minors left for example. The thing with the Minor is it was lucky & got "classic" status relatively soon. Lots of people loved it & were affectionate to it. Many specialists appeared to restore & care for it (body parts were being re-manufactured etc)so that's bound to have helped survival. It's also a far simpler car than a Maxi so less to go wrong (conventional suspension & not FWD), bolt on wings etc & that too helps a car in old age. A great many cars & the Maxi is one, were just old cars for a long time & that's a dangerous period for a car as lots of folk won't spend money on them & just run them until something needs doing & then scrap them. egg, Nicola H, lesapandre and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeExEll Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Maxi company car. Sounds good to me, when can I start? ETCHY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeeExEll Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Definitely not the first time it's been on Autoshite, but it's the 1973 Maxi-based Austin Aquila. That low bonnet must have been almost touching the engine. Also makes you wonder why they didn't offer a 1275 A-series version of the Maxi, it's the sort of thing you expected from BL in the early 70s. https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/maxi-based-aquila-concept-car/ Absolutely tiny rectangular headlights. Looks a bit Mini-Metro. Sudsprint and Skizzer 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 1 hour ago, JeeExEll said: Maxi-based Austin Aquila. That low bonnet must have been almost touching the engine. Makes you wonder why they didn't offer a 1275 A-series version of the Maxi, it's the sort of thing you expected from BL in the early 70s. https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/maxi-based-aquila-concept-car/ Aquila was an amateur design - won a competition with the Daily Telegraph I think. The winner got their car built - car of the future stuff. Certainly shows the way cars were to go - but that front over-hang and the lack of modelling to the panels makes it look a bit bland even in comparison to the Maxi beside it. barefoot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, JeeExEll said: 1 hour ago, JeeExEll said: Definitely not the first time it's been on Autoshite, but it's the 1973 Maxi-based Austin Aquila. That low bonnet must have been almost touching the engine. Also makes you wonder why they didn't offer a 1275 A-series version of the Maxi, it's the sort of thing you expected from BL in the early 70s. https://www.aronline.co.uk/concepts-and-prototypes/maxi-based-aquila-concept-car/ Absolutely tiny rectangular headlights. Looks a bit Mini-Metro. Looks great, pity they didn't have the money (or perhaps also the will) to introduce it. It might have been possibly a better bet to put money into producing something like this rather than the Princess ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Yes. Definitely. Having failed in the 1800 executive sector - BL should have exited. That and the Austin Ambassador Y Reg must have soaked up ££'s of development costs to no avail. I suppose they thought they could hoover up some of the Granada/Passat market but the other cars were just too good. Good sense prevailed with the Maestro and Montego - getting the size, spec, engine size right...but by then it was all a bit too late as their market share had shrunk and Cavalier and Sierra had turned up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Cars that killed BL - Allegro (shoddy and frumpy with no hatchback), Marina (shoddy, poor engineering dull and unreliable) and Princess and Ambassador - nobody wanted them. Maxi - innocent of all charges. Stokes hated it but it was paradoxically the real deal - the (absolutely charming but) poor cars he developed were really just that. Kind of market driven but in the crassest way. Some super motoring follies for us to enjoy but as business propositions...no. Those were the cars where people said...never again and bought something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 On 28 March 2019 at 2:15 PM, Scotty2 said: The car is ATL 149X. Sudsprint and ETCHY 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNWeigh Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, lesapandre said: Cars that killed BL - Allegro (shoddy and frumpy with no hatchback), Marina (shoddy, poor engineering dull and unreliable) and Princess and Ambassador - nobody wanted them. Maxi - innocent of all charges. Stokes hated it but it was paradoxically the real deal - the (absolutely charming but) poor cars he developed were really just that. Kind of market driven but in the crassest way. Some super motoring follies for us to enjoy but as business propositions...no. Those were the cars where people said...never again and bought something else. No one wanted them? Allegro 650,000 Marina/ Ital 1,200,000 Princess/Ambassador 270,000 Maxi 500,000 And that was with aforementioned strike, management and shit quality problems. Also apart from the Marina, very few company car sales, which when you see that the combined sales of the ' advanced ' fwd models barely beats the old fashioned but simple and fleet friendly Marina proves something, although I'm buggered if I know what! People used to be loyal to one make or even model, my Grandfater for example went from Flying Standards to an 8, 10, 1200 Herald, 13/60, 1300, 2000TC. Always went to the same dealer too, never got a penny discount , but I remember he got free flaps and mats on the 2000! Always went back for service even when he retired and moved 200 miles away. One of his brothers , had in my memory an A60, 4 Maxis , then of all things a Fiesta Supersport- call it amid-life crisis at 75. My point, if there was one ( blame the dregs of the Honey Jack Daniels I got for Christmas) is that lots of people had a lot of loyalty to BL crap and kept going back, maybe hoping they'd get a well put together one. ive also started looking at Maxis and Marinas for sale... egg and lesapandre 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Jetter Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 That Aquila's not a million miles away from a BX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 Gosh that looks beautiful. The last one made? Or near enough. Black bumpers and door mirrors bringing it into the modern age. Optional tints? Very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, Scotty2 said: Can someone tell me how many from the end my car was? Might spur me on to sort out the clutch and recommission. LOV476X is chassis no. 53750, so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keef Posted January 13, 2020 Author Share Posted January 13, 2020 33 minutes ago, Scotty2 said: I'll check Chassis number when I get home. There should be a note of it on the auction paperwork, but I don't appear to have noted it down. Original factory records were destroyed in a fire, so that's not an option either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egg Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 18 hours ago, NorfolkNWeigh said: My point, if there was one ( blame the dregs of the Honey Jack Daniels I got for Christmas) is that lots of people had a lot of loyalty to BL crap and kept going back, maybe hoping they'd get a well put together one. I think this is true, but I think French loyalty to the big three and Italian loyalty to Fiat lasted longer, which is probably why those firms still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 22 hours ago, lesapandre said: Cars that killed BL - Allegro (shoddy and frumpy with no hatchback), Marina (shoddy, poor engineering dull and unreliable) and Princess and Ambassador - nobody wanted them. Maxi - innocent of all charges. Stokes hated it but it was paradoxically the real deal - the (absolutely charming but) poor cars he developed were really just that. Kind of market driven but in the crassest way. Some super motoring follies for us to enjoy but as business propositions...no. Those were the cars where people said...never again and bought something else. I think one of the big things that BL failed to do was get onto the hatchback craze early. I think if the Allegro had been a hatchback that would have helped as it would have had a more modern character & would have been a Golf competitor (plus it would take Ford many years to introduce an Escort Hatch). A hatchback Mini or better still the enlarged BMC 9x should also have gone into production in the early 1970's. I like the Princess a lot (done quite a few miles in those) but I never saw why they produced it/spent money on it, they had the Marina as a rep's car & Cortina rival so what was the point. That money should have gone elsewhere. I do also wonder what a 1.3 Maxi might have been like with the 1275 cc A Series. Ok the Maxi is a heavyish car but that engine powered the Marina ok & Ford put 1.3 engines in their Cortina's & Capri's. A 1.3 Maxi might have been able to compete in a lower capacity bracket with the Golf if the Allegro were still a saloon, (or indeed would you actually need the Allegro if you had a 1.3 Maxi ??) Interesting to ponder ! lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lesapandre Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 39 minutes ago, ETCHY said: I think one of the big things that BL failed to do was get onto the hatchback craze early. I think if the Allegro had been a hatchback that would have helped as it would have had a more modern character & would have been a Golf competitor (plus it would take Ford many years to introduce an Escort Hatch). A hatchback Mini or better still the enlarged BMC 9x should also have gone into production in the early 1970's. I like the Princess a lot (done quite a few miles in those) but I never saw why they produced it/spent money on it, they had the Marina as a rep's car & Cortina rival so what was the point. That money should have gone elsewhere. I do also wonder what a 1.3 Maxi might have been like with the 1275 cc A Series. Ok the Maxi is a heavyish car but that engine powered the Marina ok & Ford put 1.3 engines in their Cortina's & Capri's. A 1.3 Maxi might have been able to compete in a lower capacity bracket with the Golf if the Allegro were still a saloon, (or indeed would you actually need the Allegro if you had a 1.3 Maxi ??) Interesting to ponder ! They seemed to have all the ingredients but not make it. But the one thing Donald Stokes was right about was the need to boost exports. That way you could really pump up sales, profits and offset development costs. The original F-Series Victor sold 390,000 cars in four years of which I think 70% were exported for example. Donald Stokes failed alas to sell cars particularly desirable worldwide - I am not aware how many Princess for example were sold into Europe - whereas the UK was hoovering up Golfs & Passats etc. ETCHY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter White Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 I too have thought about where it all went wrong for BMC, BLMC, British Leyland and Austin Rover. Reading the Chris Cowin book provided plenty of insight. Sadly it seems it was doomed from the very first merger. Car manufacturers not producing sufficient profit to fund new models were merged and continued to produce insufficient profits. Meanwhile international sales declined as well as domestic market share. Politicians used the car industry as a tool to try to cool the economy by increasing the deposit required for Hire purchase to slow consumer spending. Manufacturers forced to expand their production far away from existing factories and suppliers to create jobs. Britain was unable to join the EEC in the 1960s which would apparently have been a better time to join. Meanwhile Ford would work towards and succeed in being able to switch production between European plants. European and Japanese manufacturers were building their international market share. TJF. The job's f*cked. Sad really, especially as it seems however good the cars were or weren't wasn't necessarily the answer. The sums did not add up, ever. lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ETCHY Posted January 13, 2020 Share Posted January 13, 2020 That Chris Cowin book looks interesting . Not seen that before. lesapandre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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