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320touring's Exclusive Clio 172 - Diesel economy!


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#181 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

Having become use to the somewhat unerring reliability of my 1959 Oxford, I decided to try and sort this out.

Previously, the code reader had reported "multiple cylinder missfire".

A cardboard test had shown #4 injector had a poor spray pattern, so it was swapped it. The missfire got better, but still remained.

With sister car #54 sitting raised up, I took the opportunity to do some substitution elimination.

Generally, on the F4R, missfires are down to one of 4 things
1. Injector failure
2. Coilpack failure
3. Plug lead failure
4. Spark plugs. (They need some "super long service interval" specific plugs)

First up was to eliminate the injectors.

So I pulled the whole injector rail off of #54 and swapped it to #60.

IMG_20180106_101301.jpg

This gave me 4 known good injectors, so out for a test drive I went.

It was driving lovely, pulling beautifully and I was having my confidence restored.

I stopped at a set of traffic lights and the the missfire came back. Interestingly, the car was fully up to temp by this point.

I took it back and parked it up in disgust.
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#182 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 06:46 AM

After a nice day cleaning and playing with the Toledo and Oxford, I decided to apply what logic I had left to the situation.

My brother and I set to work in the dark, in -2 degrees. A happy working environment it was not.

With the missfire returning when the car was up to temp, We suspected something was getting warm and failing on the ignition circuit.

IMG_20180106_182707.jpg

We decided to strip the whole Coilpack/leads/plugs package off of #54 and fit it to #60.
Even going as far to keep the sparkplugs in the same order so they were matched to the same injector, plug lead and coil pack point as on the other engine.

#60's upper manifold was removed,

IMG_20180106_182934.jpg

Like most 16v engines, the spark plugs live way down in a hole in the middle of the head. Back in the day, I'd jetwashed #54's engine and got a missfire. Solved by drying stuff out.

Imagine my surprise* when it turned out that 3 of the 4 plugs were rusty.. not only that, they were not the correct plugs!

IMG_20180106_185923.jpg

The car had been sitting for about 7 months when I got it, so there was every chance they'd got wet and grumpy.

We fitted the known good stuff and went for a drive.

Performance was gooood - staying squirrelly through 3rd gear (no traction control on the ph1s)

We travelled further than previous, and the car was fully up to temp with no missfire.

She gets to be the 'station car" this week. If she behaves, she may go further afield thereafter.

Please cross your digits in the customary fashion!
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#183 OFFLINE   r.welfare

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:01 AM

Is it just the jazzy high power F4Rs that need fancy plugs? My Espace (36bhp down on a 172 mind) requires fairly Boggo ones I'm sure, last set were less than a tenner I think.

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#184 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:03 AM

Aside from freezing digits, it should be a fairly low cost fix ..

Plus you can have a dram to warm up

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#185 OFFLINE   beko1987

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:12 AM

Could be a nice easy fix then! The Zafira kangaroo'd all over the shop when the plugs went on that, had to properly granny it up to speed rather than accelerate normally
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#186 OFFLINE   dome

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

Just shows you, start with the obvious stuff. 

 

I rarely do...


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#187 OFFLINE   unclecalzone

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Posted 07 January 2018 - 11:40 PM

Yeah you must only use those ngk iridium plugs, literally there is no other alternative that will give proper service which is rather ridiculous


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#188 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:30 PM

This has has a fairly busy couple of days..

It went on my 95 mile round trip commute on Wednesday, completing it with nae bother.

I fuelled up in Edinburgh Wed afternoon, and got a frankly worrisome 27mpg for the last tank. It had been overfuelling like a bitch.

Resetting the trip saw a more pleasing 44odds showing on the dash when home.

Thursday was the big test - 135 miles in a day going Glasgow, Moffat, Melrose, Otterburn. In particular, this was worrisome for two reasons:

1. This was supposed to be a pleasant overnight trip with the Burd

2. The a708 out of Moffat to Selkirk is A LEGEND OF A ROAD!

I didn't want anything to go wrong.

We made Moffat with no hassle, so I took this pic and we went for coffee.

IMG_20180111_105629.jpg

Down to Otterburn was no bother.
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#189 OFFLINE   beko1987

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 06:36 PM

But...
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#190 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:09 PM

The next morning, we had a belter of a breakfast and checked out.

Got to the car and dumped the bags.

Got inside and was met with a resounding lack of dash lights.

I turned the key a couple of times in disbelief.

But, LO, it wuldnae start

Swearing, I popped the bonnet.

The negative battery lead looked at me accusingly. Ensuring there was actually a connection resulted in a firing of the F4R and we were aff.

There were a couple of tractors on the a72 as we headed for Peebles (and the best chocolatier in Scotland).

This resulted in at least 10 miles of bimblery, and an average mpg over 50 miles of:


IMG_20180112_121150.jpg

Even whilst GLF They are pretty economical
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#191 OFFLINE   Split_Pin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:44 PM

That is indeed surprisingly economical, very impressive!

#192 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:47 PM

That is indeed surprisingly economical, very impressive!


I reckon she should be on the nose of 40mpg for this tank. I hope!
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#193 OFFLINE   Split_Pin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 09:52 PM

I have owned smaller engined cars with far worse economy than yours i.e. lots more petrol for much less fun! Sounds like a grand all rounder there.

#194 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:02 PM

I have owned smaller engined cars with far worse economy than yours i.e. lots more petrol for much less fun! Sounds like a grand all rounder there.

The fundamental thing is this bugger has the torque to just roll on the power in 4/5th at 2000rpm so you dont need to shift down.

Apply fully throttle in 3rd though and overtaking (@90mph) is a readily accessible possibility.

We'll see what the actual figures from this tank are - I always distrust OBC readouts
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#195 OFFLINE   Split_Pin

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 10:31 PM

Yeah I was thinking that it might be something to do with the balance of an engine small enough not to be a gas guzzler but big enough to be unstressed (and provide funs!)
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#196 OFFLINE   unclecalzone

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:28 PM

Was the temperate gauge sitting just below half after a long run? If that’s the case then you may have a thermostat that’s stuck open, had this a few times over the years causing a few mpg oddities


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#197 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:35 PM

Was the temperate gauge sitting just below half after a long run? If that’s the case then you may have a thermostat that’s stuck open, had this a few times over the years causing a few mpg oddities


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Car has always shown that once up to temp. Mpg tank to tank seems about normal.

Plenty to do before thermostat at the moment:)
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#198 OFFLINE   Hertz

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 11:43 PM

Like these little Clio's. I used to stop in Moffat quite a bit (from Seafield), there is a nice bakers/pie shop. Had many a scotch pie in there over the years  :-)  


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#199 OFFLINE   PhilA

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 02:57 PM

Yeah I was thinking that it might be something to do with the balance of an engine small enough not to be a gas guzzler but big enough to be unstressed (and provide funs!)


That's why a lot of vehicles here have large engines. Long range, steady cruising capability with the ability to get up and go.

My Dodge with a 5.7 liter engine would do better fuel economy at 70 than my Renault with a 2.0, and that's mostly down to the gearing. Renault does 3500 RPM at 70, the Dodge was bumbling along at 1850.

Drop the speed to 45, and the Renault massively does better, close to 55mpg where the Dodge would struggle to top 40.

Horses for courses. 96hp against 375. 1996lbs against 4140.

It's making me want to see how much an F4R would be to replace my F3R. I wonder if the bottom end is the same...


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#200 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:22 PM

I'm sure I could come by one with not too much effort- shipping it to the states could be a pain..

Top engine though!
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#201 OFFLINE   fraser.innes.3

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 06:51 AM

After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose.


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#202 OFFLINE   beko1987

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:00 AM

After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose.


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Give in to the French, you know you want to!
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#203 OFFLINE   fraser.innes.3

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:08 AM

Give in to the French, you know you want to!

Already have 2 Meganes!!!

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#204 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:54 AM

After reading this for the last couple of months, I hopped into eBay and started looking. I then expanded my horizons and am now the highest bidder on a Megane 225 with 4 hours til the end of the auction. Cheers mate. That's what happens when you wake up on the sofa still pissed after celebrating your birthday I suppose.


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I accept no responsibility;)

And I'll have that turbo lump off you if the rest of the Megane is pish:)
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#205 OFFLINE   fraser.innes.3

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:00 AM

I accept no responsibility;)

And I'll have that turbo lump off you if the rest of the Megane is pish:)

The turbo lump is destined for my 2001 Megane cabby. Hopefully breaking the rest will pay for it, but as you know, I will drive it home, like it, then that will be another one to antagonize the wife with!!


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#206 ONLINE   320touring

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:41 PM

366 miles from wed evening til Sunday at 11.40am.

41.43L used, giving 40.16mpg.

Pretty damn good for a wee charger.

Mr Tickman can confirm that it goes well - as borne out by his wee shot of it the day.
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#207 OFFLINE   Tickman

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 06:50 AM

366 miles from wed evening til Sunday at 11.40am.

41.43L used, giving 40.16mpg.

Pretty damn good for a wee charger.

Mr Tickman can confirm that it goes well - as borne out by his wee shot of it the day.

 

Guilty, goes very well!  :)


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#208 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:52 AM

Has he bought it yet? 


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#209 OFFLINE   Tickman

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:55 AM

Has he bought it yet? 

I have bought nothing yet, just a matter of time...


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#210 OFFLINE   The Moog

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 10:37 AM

Thats like catnip to 320touring car sales and advert forwarding service... 


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