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1987 Renault GTA :: For Sale


PhilA
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As Trigger says, this thread hurts my head too - but I am enjoying watching this collection of bits and pieces becoming an ECU.

 

Love your car - my Dad had a Renault 9 (basically a 4 door version of yours) which he had for 14 years until a drunk driver rammed it outside my sisters place one night. Dad scrapped it, in fact I think he paid for someone to take it away!.

 

Wish I'd kept it as it would have been a great donor for other renaults, probably would have a made a few quid....

 

Probably. Someone's breaking a convertible GTA up north right now. I'm going to try get some parts.

 

Handily my brakes came in today.

 

-Phil

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Here's some Info for you that I posted in my Tennessee Shite thread.....

 

As far as your 1987 Renault (Alliance) GTA goes, the Kenosha, Wisconsin factory built only 5,515 coupes and 1,029 convertibles for a total of 6,544 cars.

 

Hemming's Motor News did an interesting article on the GTA a couple of years back. You will find it here.

 

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/201 ... uide1.html

 

 

Did you know there is also a Renault Owners Club of North America? Here's their website.

 

http://www.renaultclub.us/

 

 

Also, I thought you might like to see a period magazine ad for your car.....

 

 

ad_renault_gta_red_1987.jpg

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Here's some Info for you that I posted in my Tennessee Shite thread.....

 

As far as your 1987 Renault (Alliance) GTA goes, the Kenosha, Wisconsin factory built only 5,515 coupes and 1,029 convertibles for a total of 6,544 cars.

 

Hemming's Motor News did an interesting article on the GTA a couple of years back. You will find it here.

 

http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/201 ... uide1.html

 

 

Did you know there is also a Renault Owners Club of North America? Here's their website.

 

http://www.renaultclub.us/

 

 

Also, I thought you might like to see a period magazine ad for your car..... (Cut for size)

 

Thanks for that. I'd never read that Hemmings column before. Makes for interesting reading- they've actually gone to the trouble of some fairly deep research.

 

Once the car's going, I'm contemplating joining the club, yes. If the wife lets :)

 

--Phil

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I found that the device I built doesn't work when connected to the car.

 

I went back and looked at my late-night soldering- if I actually soldered the parts in using the correct order and following my circuit diagram, it might just work.

 

Random British-Leyland style repair, aka The Piece Of Wire That Looks Like an Afterthought successfully installed. Depending on how busy today is (am at work) might be able to get it tested.

 

--Phil

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Electronics, despite testing properly and well on bench fail to work in car. Gave up on that in disgust for a while. I'll go back to it once I've gotten some other jobs done. The wife's at work this weekend, it's not raining and I have a bit of spare time to go work on the car. I want to get the brakes done.

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I feckin hate brakes.

 

I took some pictures which I might add to this later but once the brake fluid began to flow I'm not picking my phone up to photograph things.

 

In short, the car has now a superbly working handbrake courtesy of two new cables and some adjustment, a new master cylinder, two new rear cylinders and a flush through with new fluid and a bleed with the Eezi-Bleed.

 

I however have hardly any pedal.

 

I'm thinking the rear brakes need yet more adjustment, but I can stop the car with the foot pedal, out just goes all the way to the floor before anything happens.

 

Got some manual reading to do and some people to speak to.

 

Going to change the rear flexis and the front right probably tomorrow, check see the initial adjustment on the shoes (which should adjust themselves) and try again.

 

I ache all over and have very little to show for it. Bleh.

 

-Phil

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I replaced the shoes, wheels cylinders, springs and "self adjusters" on my Toyota brakes, had a lot of pedal play - I had to rotate the self adjuster ratchet wheels a bit through conveniently placed holes on the back plate to take up the initial play - brake pedal was fine after that.

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I agree with Iain here, I had similar problems with an old Renault which I eventually solved by manually winding out the self adjusters at the back. Ideally they should adjust themselves outwards as you use them but they never really seem to.

 

Anyway, give that a whirl, it should give you a bit of pedal

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Try this. Push pedal -note how far down it goes. Release. Apply handbrake -reasonably hard. Try pedal again. Is it higher? if so -rear brakes out of adjustment. No difference- problem lies elsewhere.

 

I've 2 9's -a 'normal' one & a turbo -and the brakes are conventional -except air locks are common.

 

 

If you're in no rush -try wedging the brake pedal down overnight. It 'sometimes' pressurises the airlock out -and the pedal improves. It'll not be perfect till its covered a few miles and the pads/shoes have 'bed' in.

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Having re-read the manual, the procedure states to wind it out until it causes the wheel to bind, then back it off a half turn. The adjuster mechanisms are all brand new too.

 

It's thundering here now, got woken up by the dog. Dunno if the weather is going to hold.

 

If it does, I'll see if the adjusters are accessible through the back plate and go from there.

 

 

The shoes and pads I've not changed, as they are still plenty meaty. I'll try wedging the pedal down too if I can't get it to improve. I did get a lot of farty bubbles out when bleeding it- pumped the pedal a few times with each nipple open and the Eezi-Bleed pushing fluid through.

Thanks

 

-Phil

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There is another way of bleeding - I find far easier than easi-bleed. Buy around 6 foot of windscreen washer tubing (-about £1.50 here) that fits over the nipple, up over the car (loop through the door hanle or tape the top to a window) -so you can see it though the glass & back into a container.

 

Fill the master cytlinder & pump away. You'll see fluid & bubbles rise to the high point -where the fluid will drain into the new container.

 

No rush - but you'll get a much better idea- each pedal stroke -of whats going on. If you're nifty with the fluid- you'll lose very little too

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I purchased a brake bleeder that has a little magnet on the bottle so it can be attached somewhere that you can see it while pumping the brakes, my dad used a broom handled on minis to push the pedal from out side until I was old enought to hold the bleed spanner :lol:

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I think I am too; went took a while again today (it chucked it down with rain then the sun came out- 90F in 95%rH is particularly unpleasant, even with a big fan) and checked the adjustment of the rear brakes.

 

Adjusted them as per spec. Pedal improved marginally.

 

Applying handbrake hard and trying pedal gives no noticeable improvement.

 

It's gotta be airlocked somewheres. I'm guessing probably the shuttle valve up front that splits the two outputs from the master cylinder off to the wheels. I'm going to replace the flexi hoses then try bleeding the lot again.

 

I think what I'll do will be twofold- half and half of Nigel's and the Eezi-Bleed- length of pipe up over with the nipple opened and the Eezi-Bleed on, with the reservoir there to make sure I don't run things dry, at low pressure.

 

Took it for a test drive down the street. Even with a poor pedal, the brakes are positive. I take that as a good sign.

 

--Phil

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Welp, here's the pics from the other day.

 

Jacked it all up again.

jacked_up_all_wheels.jpg

 

Hoisted off the master cylinder

master_cylinder_off.jpg

old_master_cylinder.jpg

 

After a lot of a fight, I got the reservoir off. that was just turning it upside down. After a thorough clean out it was a lot better

dirt.jpg

 

Stuck the new master cylinder on

new_master_cylinder.jpg

 

Fought with the rigid lines, finally got them screwed on and the reservoir popped on

clean_reservior.jpg

 

Took the drum apart again, removed the old cylinder

drum_apart.jpg

 

That one was fubar, it had hardly any movement in one side. Put a new one in.

drum_apart.jpg

 

Repeated for the other side, pfaffed about with the adjusters and the bleeding set, the rest y'all have read. Back to the basics on this one.

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More brakes today, mostly being up under the car fighting spiders and dirt.

 

The rear brake pipes were questionable:

old_pipe_rear.jpg

 

They looked new-ish (as in newer than the car) but still fusty.

Got a pair of new ones for the back:

new_rear_pipes.jpg

 

Fought with the old union on one pipe:

tight_union.jpg

 

Finally with vice grips and a breaker bar it came undone and was replaced:

new_union.jpg

 

 

Looking a bit better with all the perishable brakes parts under the back replaced:

all_new_things.jpg

 

Did the front brake pipe too that I hadn't changed yet:

new_front_pipe.jpg

 

Bled it up, and I am definitely now suspicious of the safety valve. I get good pedal on the back end of the pedal travel. I have been warned by a few people that the shuttle valve that closes off a failed part of the circuit. I think it may be jammed in one position, not allowing me to bleed the near end of the master cylinder.

 

Fun fun. Yet more brake fluid. At least it's been flushed through thoroughly.

 

--Phil

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brake_combination_valve.jpg

 

...and that's what Renault have to say on the combination safety valve. Note the bottom right of the page :/

 

In the true nature of AS I'm probably going to have to strip it and rebuild it.

 

--Phil

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for the effort involved, wouldnt it be easier to find a scrap Alliance and liberate the part from that? or you may get lucky and find a NOS part on eBay or something.

 

I had a look on eBay UK and found a few Renault brake valves but they are all the wrong sort. I would have thought that parts from the European 9 / 11 or Renault 5 would fit as they all used similar systems. Although my Renault experiences here suggest that the factory use whatever they have handy so even if you get the right part, it actually wont be...

 

If its a specific US part you will be limited, otherwise eBay France might come up trumps. Heres a link to eBay France with search of Renault 9 Brakes:

 

http://pieces-auto.shop.ebay.fr/i.html? ... &cmd=Blend

 

Lots of pads and discs to wade through but it might be somewhere in there.....

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for the effort involved, wouldnt it be easier to find a scrap Alliance and liberate the part from that? or you may get lucky and find a NOS part on eBay or something.

 

I had a look on eBay UK and found a few Renault brake valves but they are all the wrong sort. I would have thought that parts from the European 9 / 11 or Renault 5 would fit as they all used similar systems. Although my Renault experiences here suggest that the factory use whatever they have handy so even if you get the right part, it actually wont be...

 

If its a specific US part you will be limited, otherwise eBay France might come up trumps. Heres a link to eBay France with search of Renault 9 Brakes:

 

http://pieces-auto.shop.ebay.fr/i.html? ... &cmd=Blend

 

Lots of pads and discs to wade through but it might be somewhere in there.....

 

Case of finding the right thing. Don't know what this one came from.

 

Looking at it and he feel of the pedal I'm not sure if it's stuck or if it's just got a really bad airlock that won't clear between the master cylinder and it. I'm going to try bleed it up again

 

--Phil

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As the system should be pretty well bled already, try a gravity bleed. My cousin is a Ford engineer and reckons this always shifts persistent airlocks, even if it's a bit slow. Worth a shot?

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A couple of brake hose clamps is what you need to determine if it's a wheel cylinder/ piston problem.First clamp both front flexi's then check the pedal for improvements.If the pedal is solid your problem is at the front.If the pedal goes to the floor or doesn't seem to make any difference then clamp the rears.Vice grips could be used but seeing as they are all new hoses the proper clamps won't damage them.

If the rear load sensing valve is seized, and this is most likely the problem, get some copper brake pipes made up to bypass it.I tried freeing off one on a Renault 19 a few years ago to no avail.The rear brakes worked fine on the MOT brake roller after I'd bypassed the valve.

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A couple of brake hose clamps is what you need to determine if it's a wheel cylinder/ piston problem.First clamp both front flexi's then check the pedal for improvements.If the pedal is solid your problem is at the front.If the pedal goes to the floor or doesn't seem to make any difference then clamp the rears.Vice grips could be used but seeing as they are all new hoses the proper clamps won't damage them.

If the rear load sensing valve is seized, and this is most likely the problem, get some copper brake pipes made up to bypass it.I tried freeing off one on a Renault 19 a few years ago to no avail.The rear brakes worked fine on the MOT brake roller after I'd bypassed the valve.

 

I can give that a try. I think the airlock is between the master cylinder and the combination calve.

 

Unlike the 19, it doesn't have the Titanic-esque rusty bar at the back to regulate the rear brakes, instead that is just statically adjusted for pressure in the combi valve up front. Stamp on the brakes and it closes the rears off above 220 psi, leaving the fronts to take up the rest.

 

--Phil

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Had a few minutes to look over this device I built... and in the final stage there's a resistor colored RED VIOLET BROWN

 

WTF

 

That should be BROWN BLACK RED

 

I was tired when I put it together... 270 Ohms instead of 1000 Ohms. That'll cause the stupid problems I've been seeing...

 

...I hope.

 

Soldering a new one in now

 

Edit:

resistor_wrong.jpg

 

That one there, all new and shiny with the right color stripes

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Spotted at this year's Carlisle Import Show.......

 

carlisle-5.jpg

 

Amazing to think AMC/Renault churned out over 623,000 Alliance/Encore models and yet you never see any today. Evidently there are still a few in use in and around the vicinity of Kenosha, Wisconsin, owned by AMC die-hards still loyal to their hometown-built cars.

 

http://hooniverse.com/2012/07/12/carlis ... nals-2012/

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Okay, it still doesn't work properly. I'm at least now getting garbled data in, which is a start. It's all trash but it does at least repeat, after a fashion.

 

Tried pumping the brake pedal out of boredom. It went SFLARCH with air noises a few times then improved as I pumped. Definitely an airlock in the master cylinder. Going to try to pump and pump and pump to "dissolve" the bubbles then bleed it out.

 

Not this weekend though. Tonight got rained off partway through and I'm working the weekend (boo work! money yay!)

 

--Phil

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