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Rover P4 110 - Gone


SiC

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Wondering with the repairs to the brakes, would it be possible to fit a dual circuit system with a modern servo. Also how about fitting a freewheel from an older model. I wonder? Only freewheels I have driven were 2-strokes, a Saab 96, and a Trabant. First time was a bit scary, a Trabi Safari in Berlin! Nearly had the back of the leader! ( http://www.trabi-safari.de/  )

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Joking aside, this is the right way to do it. Buy a scruffy car that is already seeing regular use and you pretty much know you've a turn key motor. Alright you'll probably have a few bits of mechanical stuff to do to get on top of it, but then you've got something you can really get some use out of without worrying about it!

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On 3/20/2023 at 5:05 PM, Saabnut said:

Good old buses these, good choice. I have a 105S to break for spares, think the front bumper is OK but no time to actually do anything for the next 3-4 months. Will check the bumper though when it stops raining

What's wrong with your 105s that its being scrapped?

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19 hours ago, SiC said:

I went for a run up and down the road yesterday to give it a try out. One of the things I did was stomp hard on the brake pedal. I always do this on a new classic car I buy to test out the brakes.

Its a harsh test that shows several things and all of which I want to find out before I have to do it in an emergency. Firstly are the brakes strong enough to lock the wheels. Secondly is the hydraulic system strong enough to withstand the hard force applied. Thirdly do they release back off without sticking.

Yesterday it did all those things and I ticked off the brakes as perfectly serviceable. Remember the previous owner drove this from Windsor on the motorway and through Central London.
One of the things I did notice was a big plume of white smoke. This wasn't water and smelt distinctively hydrocarbon. I put this down to overfuelling as it was sat idling a while and I think it's running a bit rich.

Today I started up on the drive and went to manoeuvre it. I noticed the pedal was pretty soft and it went to the floor. Hmm.
Checked the brake fluid reservoir...
13a8a68dd2c67a095a30b47dd4ca4b9b.jpg

That's not good!

I filled up the reservoir and gave the pedal a few pumps to try to get some pressure back into the system. In doing so I had some pretty impressive white smoke come out the back!
65822a147e53edfbda3ed75417328b42.gif

Revs increase too. This all points to the brake servo going to need a rebuild.
Annoying but that's life with an old car. The previous owner did report some white smoke but the consensus of the P4 Drivers Guild FB page was that it probably was condensation build up in the exhaust. I probably finished it off by stomping on that pedal emoji1787.png🫣

But I'd rather this happen than driving at the weekend down a steep hill on the way to the classic meet I intended to go in this. Doesn't look likely I'll be going to that in this car this weekend. Oh well, I'll have to drag out the BGT and hope that behaves.

Looking in the box of bits of spares, there is another servo.
4234479fbdcbc8efbdc28b8b91ce316f.jpg
0ad469feb35e091f28c7d043410b2135.jpg

Incidentally also a singular overrider
1a567400363520544458fc558da599ce.jpg

Then this weird cylindrical object. Cylinder liner? I also found some new piston rings and an old rocker shaft too.
308208263a581a7db05ee540ba5344f2.jpg

Looks like it's had engine work in its past. No bad thing.

Now I need to decide what route to go down with the servo. Rebuilt units are on a 2 week lead time from the usual P4 suppliers. There is a rebuild kit too.
Or there is a kit to convert the car to a modern Lockheed servo.

I don't want to wait 2 weeks really for a rebuild. P4 Drivers Guild Facebook group says convert. I'm thinking the rebuild kit on that spare servo...
I'll possibly change the master while I'm doing this work too.

Definitely do the master cylinder at the same time, if fluid is getting into the inlet manifold it's being sucked past the cylinder seals.  Which may not do them any good.

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19 hours ago, SiC said:

I went for a run up and down the road yesterday to give it a try out. One of the things I did was stomp hard on the brake pedal. I always do this on a new classic car I buy to test out the brakes.

Its a harsh test that shows several things and all of which I want to find out before I have to do it in an emergency. Firstly are the brakes strong enough to lock the wheels. Secondly is the hydraulic system strong enough to withstand the hard force applied. Thirdly do they release back off without sticking.

Yesterday it did all those things and I ticked off the brakes as perfectly serviceable. Remember the previous owner drove this from Windsor on the motorway and through Central London.
One of the things I did notice was a big plume of white smoke. This wasn't water and smelt distinctively hydrocarbon. I put this down to overfuelling as it was sat idling a while and I think it's running a bit rich.

Today I started up on the drive and went to manoeuvre it. I noticed the pedal was pretty soft and it went to the floor. Hmm.
Checked the brake fluid reservoir...
13a8a68dd2c67a095a30b47dd4ca4b9b.jpg

That's not good!

I filled up the reservoir and gave the pedal a few pumps to try to get some pressure back into the system. In doing so I had some pretty impressive white smoke come out the back!
65822a147e53edfbda3ed75417328b42.gif

Revs increase too. This all points to the brake servo going to need a rebuild.
Annoying but that's life with an old car. The previous owner did report some white smoke but the consensus of the P4 Drivers Guild FB page was that it probably was condensation build up in the exhaust. I probably finished it off by stomping on that pedal emoji1787.png🫣

But I'd rather this happen than driving at the weekend down a steep hill on the way to the classic meet I intended to go in this. Doesn't look likely I'll be going to that in this car this weekend. Oh well, I'll have to drag out the BGT and hope that behaves.

Looking in the box of bits of spares, there is another servo.
4234479fbdcbc8efbdc28b8b91ce316f.jpg
0ad469feb35e091f28c7d043410b2135.jpg

Incidentally also a singular overrider
1a567400363520544458fc558da599ce.jpg

Then this weird cylindrical object. Cylinder liner? I also found some new piston rings and an old rocker shaft too.
308208263a581a7db05ee540ba5344f2.jpg

Looks like it's had engine work in its past. No bad thing.

Now I need to decide what route to go down with the servo. Rebuilt units are on a 2 week lead time from the usual P4 suppliers. There is a rebuild kit too.
Or there is a kit to convert the car to a modern Lockheed servo.

I don't want to wait 2 weeks really for a rebuild. P4 Drivers Guild Facebook group says convert. I'm thinking the rebuild kit on that spare servo...
I'll possibly change the master while I'm doing this work too.

Definitely do the master cylinder at the same time, if fluid is getting into the inlet manifold it's being sucked past the cylinder seals.  Which may not do them any good. Or duff seals may be causing the problem in the first place.

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I bit the bullet. 

Spoke to the chap at John Wearing (presumably John) on the phone. He said apparently the manufacturer of Lockheed servos has recently gone into administration. So buy one soon as he won't be able to necessarily get any more. I asked about the remanufactured master and new master differences. He said their workshop has fitted loads of the new masters and they've not given a problem. 

So bought servo, master and a bunch of tune up bits. Last owner I believe replaced the front hoses with the pads. Hence just the new rear hose. I really hoping the rear cylinders are okay. They are available but another £130. Won't really know until I look there. 

Anyway that was a quick way to spend nearly 500 quid. New tyres may have to wait till next month now.

 

Screenshot_20230322-122020.png

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I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. This chap is running on 185/80/15 Ovations on his P4 with a big tuned Ford V8. Apparently they dig in very well once off the line. 

2005868452_Screenshot_20230322-1759022.thumb.png.c584b788cdd69b94885cd7b5c7afa926.png

While not exactly decent tyres compared to a modern hi performance radial, they're by far enough an improvement over any old crossply. Unfortunately nothing in between the HiFly/ovation and the mega expensive tyres.

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For those not aware, you can get period correct tyres from the big tyre manufacturers. However they come out at quite a hefty price tag. 

Screenshot_20230322-191355.thumb.png.524b7a3d2a8e72670b678e0e4fc5c4fc.png

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/rover/p4.html

Hopefully sierraman isn't reading this thread. He'll risk having a seizure when he sees those Michelin prices!

In reality, they're likely to be put on classic Jags/Astons/Ferrari/etc that are worth five, size or even seven figures.

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2 hours ago, SiC said:

I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. This chap is running on 185/80/15 Ovations on his P4 with a big tuned Ford V8. Apparently they dig in very well once off the line. 

2005868452_Screenshot_20230322-1759022.thumb.png.c584b788cdd69b94885cd7b5c7afa926.png

While not exactly decent tyres compared to a modern hi performance radial, they're by far enough an improvement over any old crossply. Unfortunately nothing in between the HiFly/ovation and the mega expensive tyres.

There are these, supposed to be good for steering weight, but still expensive,  not quite at Michelin levels, though.

https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185vr15

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9 minutes ago, artdjones said:

There are these, supposed to be good for steering weight, but still expensive,  not quite at Michelin levels, though.

https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185vr15

You can get nearly 4 Ovation for one of them though!

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m53b0s1143p142926/Ovation_Tyres_Car_Ovation_VI682_Ecovision_Ovation_VI_682_-_185_80_R15_93T_TL_Fuel_Eff_%3A_E_Wet_Grip%3A_C_NoiseClass%3A_2_Noise%3A_70dB

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3 hours ago, SiC said:

I usually hate cheap Chinese tyres. However there isn't much available between the £50 Ovation/HiFly (appear to be the same company) then £200+ each Michelin/Pirelli/etc. 

At least you have a choice.  When I was looking for tyres for the Volvo, the only new tyres available in the correct size were Nankangs.  When a pair of little-used Dunlops came up for slightly less than the price of a pair of new Nankangs I nabbed them straight away.  The Volvo is understeery enough as it is without adding cheap tyres to the mix.

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Box of bits has arrived ready for the weekend.
38c256ec1e384441ef074c064d2b32bb.jpg

Far more boxes in there than I expected. I did wonder if I got the wrong order for a bit.
2922b4a2d52f8e68b4f5ceca6d6fe374.jpg

But it turns out they have sent a load of period correct boxes for my collection (presumably it's really just padding for the box)
ced48c845f7aa31eed55474e53789343.jpg

Also plenty of boxes in boxes for some reason too
c0ee2f964b0bb8fb8b91d476cc62d35d.jpg
f2c914dde34f8748da989bfdc16b9a33.jpg

Then this included newspaper made me chuckle. A monthly Land Rover paper that can be picked up from your local LR specialist! Presumably because you're either ordering one from every month or having to visit one every month to have it fixed?
63eb313c59e50c8b8fe2fbbd80fe3a26.jpg

Instructions for the servo install recommend relocating it to the front wing. A benefit of which gives better access to the steering box. Useful presumably because its maintenance is part of the service schedule.
28ab9f17d73ca856861f6a645392f3db.jpg

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On 3/20/2023 at 4:24 PM, SiC said:

 

Plan is to wire wheel the front bumper and give my Halfords can of Chrome spray paint a go. I can't make it any worse!

 

I beg of you, don't do this! You might not think it can be any worse, but from my experience of all chrome paints(including halfords), it will look flipping terrible to start with like some sort of cheap chinese christmas decoration, and very quickly deteriorate to even worse. 

 

Anyway, what a buy! you're an inspiration

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30 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

I have to say I've never managed to find any chrome spray paint that wasn't utter shit.  You'd have more success with chrome tape - applied carefully it can look OK, nowhere near as good as genuine chrome obviously but from 20 feet away it'll be a definite improvement.

It has been my experience as well. I have not found any that are durable enough for exterior use.  I used zinc primer after wire brushing the corrosion and patched some holes by fibreglassing from the back before using aluminium tape on my Reliant's rear bumper, polished then lacquered.  As you say, it's an improvement on rust and decay when viewed at 20ft.  Photo added. Note the tidy* garage.

I've had HiFly tyres a few times when I had the Stellar and once on the Tipo prior to the current matching set of god knows what make.  All have been surprisingly acceptable even in the wet.  Not sure how they'd behave with such a strong understeering car like a P4 110 though. 

100_2274.jpeg

Edited by RayMK
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Another vote against chrome paint here too, it's not really designed to recreate actual chrome, more just provide a mirror finish you never ever touch.  I did find cleaning the rusty chrome back with fine wire wool and then dotting in the rust pits with a Molotow chrome pen worked surprisingly well, even without lacquer.  The rust will still come back, obviously, but it might work for you on this one since you're not wanting a perfect finish.  You can get refills for the chrome pens too so you can then paint it on the larger areas.  It stays in the pitted areas as a dull chrome after a few rain spells and can be topped up at any point as often as you like.  You do need to wash brushes in thinners when you use it and try not to get it on your hands for the same reason.

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V5 came for this today. Just nipped down at lunchtime and converted it to historic tax class. 

Now the only excuse left for taking it on a drive is I need to fit that box of bits that has arrived!

1 hour ago, cobblers said:

Anyway, what a buy! you're an inspiration on how to burn money quicker than earn

FTFY

39 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

You can get refills for the chrome pens too so you can then paint it on the larger areas. 

This job might need quite a few refills 😅

PXL_20230323_132453800.thumb.jpg.59d1254f6f4780625d696ba2055e4e57.jpg

PXL_20230323_132442407.thumb.jpg.b2804cb405bbe25ca80eba6a1f456b08.jpg

What chrome there is left is about to peel off anyway!

Good idea on the chrome tape. I remember seeing that on Facebook as a tip (might have been Bad Chad and one of the few tips of his actually that was good). That might be easier than paint. Especially as paint and me are never in harmony. 

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