The grumpy thread

[PhilA]

Then the fixing has to be aerodynamic, so it turns into a flat piece with a huge wide slot that is chewed up immediately by any screwdriver known to man; particularly when the mix of grit, mud and oil on the backside has glued the thing in place. That coupled with having to be made from environmentally friendly plastic means it'll have the strength of Dairylea. Result: flappy undertray.

"We're sorry we broke your car trying to undo it" does need to be a phone call; 160 for a front shock (assuming McPherson style) isn't bad once you factor in shiny floors, air conditioning, free coffee and wages.

For Old Jim down in the Arches whose only outlay is electric and rent on the space, fitting a Euro Crap Parts shock is only a few minutes in his own day so charge an hour and add 30% onto ECP's price and call it good, mate. He answers to nobody but himself. There is no chain of accountants waiting for the monthly figures.

[reb]

What are Volvo* making their undertrays out of these days that it broke trying to take it off? The one on my old 850 was barely held on, thus smacked every speed bump and pothole I came across, which were numerous. When I finally got more screws for it it was a bit scuffed but it wasn't broken...

[andyberg]

Surely if they broke the undertray then they should replace at their cost??????

[dome]

Sounds an awful lot like when the Ford dealer snapped an injector clamp on our works Transit and the quote for repair increased from £500 to £6000 as it "needed a new engine". Needless to say they got told to FRO and got a specialist in to remove the injector after I kicked up a stink. 

Shame your dad has paid them but I'd get on to Volvo via twitter or their head office-they've ripped the hole right out of it. 

[Yoss]

4 hours ago, andyberg said:

Surely if they broke the undertray then they should replace at their cost??????

That was the first thing that sprung to my mind too. I would be asking them the same thing. 

[DavieW]

The thing I've found with main dealers of all colours is they don't "repair" parts, it's replacement. I've seem hubs with broken studs replaced as they can't or won't remove the broken stud. Same with sumps, replace because the sump plug snapped. As with the injector above, they won't entertain repair, same as the undertray,  whereas a non franchise garage will happily repair.

 

 

[andyberg]

1 minute ago, DavieW said:

The thing I've found with main dealers of all colours is they don't "repair" parts, it's replacement. I've seem hubs with broken studs replaced as they can't or won't remove the broken stud. Same with sumps, replace because the sump plug snapped. As with the injector above, they won't entertain repair, same as the undertray,  whereas a non franchise garage will happily repair.

 

 

That's fine, but THEY broke it. THEY should pay for a new one??  If I borrowed your car and broke something you would expect me to replace that part at no cost to you. 

In my opinion unless the garage covered their ass in the first place by saying removing the undertray may result it it breaking the. I would be telling them, you broke, you fix...

[DavieW]

13 minutes ago, andyberg said:

That's fine, but THEY broke it. THEY should pay for a new one??  If I borrowed your car and broke something you would expect me to replace that part at no cost to you. 

In my opinion unless the garage covered their ass in the first place by saying removing the undertray may result it it breaking the. I would be telling them, you broke, you fix...

I totally agree. 

[twosmoke300]

A decent independent would have greased the bolts on the previous service so the undertray came off easily . 
 

Just sayin

[Split_Pin]

13 minutes ago, twosmoke300 said:

A decent independent
 

Unfortunately that's not something that exists near where my parents live.

[twosmoke300]

I’m sure there is somewhere . 
Also - who changes one damper ? 
 

[wuvvum]

2 hours ago, twosmoke300 said:

Also - who changes one damper ? 

Me.

'Cos I'm tight, I hate pissing about with suspension and unless I'm trying to beat my PB round the Nurburgring I'm unlikely to notice the difference in handling.

[Remspoor]

@Split_Pin too late now. Maybe next time dad should say no extra work without  agreement. He, or you, can talk to them before hand. I would also ask them to save the old parts so that they can be inspected.

A search has thrown up these guys.

https://www.craigmoncrieff.com/volvo/

I assume these are the overcharges. https://www.john-clark.co.uk/volvo/servicing-parts/

If so a review here may help. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.john-clark.co.uk/location/volvo-cars-edinburgh

 

[Split_Pin]

2 hours ago, twosmoke300 said:

I’m sure there is somewhere . 
Also - who changes one damper ? 
 

Volvo, clearly 🤷‍♂️

[Split_Pin]

7 minutes ago, Remspoor said:

@Split_Pin too late now. Maybe next time dad should say no extra work without  agreement. He, or you, can talk to them before hand. I would also ask them to save the old parts so that they can be inspected.

A search has thrown up these guys.

https://www.craigmoncrieff.com/volvo/

I assume these are the overcharges. https://www.john-clark.co.uk/volvo/servicing-parts/

If so a review here may help. https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.john-clark.co.uk/location/volvo-cars-edinburgh

 

Excellent tip on Craig Moncrieff, thanks man. I've not heard of them before. They're not too far from where Murray Volvo used to be. They had a presence in Edinburgh for what must have been over 40 years and their closure was where my dad's problems started. They were a short walk from Edinburgh Park Station, the suggested garage is just a wee bit further away.

[hairnet]

only chod seen so far merc 124 and a 408 van

cant remember the last time saw a pre 1990 merc van

where we went to primary skool the builder guy on the end terrace bought a brand new 207 in 1984 apart from sinsheim not seen another for years

[artdjones]

35 minutes ago, hairnet said:

cant remember the last time saw a pre 1990 merc van

Mechanically tough, but rust protection was similar standard to a Ford.

[goosey]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:35 PM, twosmoke300 said:

I’m sure there is somewhere . 
Also - who changes one damper ? 
 

I have recently but they are £540 a side 

[Zelandeth]

Christ I'd forgotten what a bloody horrible place to drive in Oxford is.  Hopefully that's my one visit for the next couple of years done so I don't need to venture that way again any time soon.

Nowhere near as bad as London, but still sodding unpleasant.  I always forget as well how outright suicidal a lot of the cyclists there are too.

[ruffgeezer]

Before we moved, I borrowed a nice Vax 121 from my wife's Grandad, our then neighbour.  He was moving into the in-laws place and therefore downsizing, so I had hoped to keep it.

The in-laws wanted it to clean the upholstery on their camper van, so itnwent to live with them,  and now 18 months later has been lost completely. 

How do you lose a whole wet vac, in its box with all its accessories? 

 

This grump also served to remind me of when my wife and I spent some time with her grandad sorting his bungalow ready for the move, and we had left a pile of things to be moved into our house only to find the next day when we went back that FIL had been round being helpful* and skipped the lot... including a nice 1980s Technics amp and tape deck.

 

The van seats are still manky, and I am 

Grumpy.

[beko1987]

5 minutes ago, ruffgeezer said:

Before we moved, I borrowed a nice Vax 121 from my wife's Grandad, our then neighbour.  He was moving into the in-laws place and therefore downsizing, so I had hoped to keep it.

The in-laws wanted it to clean the upholstery on their camper van, so itnwent to live with them,  and now 18 months later has been lost completely. 

How do you lose a whole wet vac, in its box with all its accessories? 

 

This grump also served to remind me of when my wife and I spent some time with her grandad sorting his bungalow ready for the move, and we had left a pile of things to be moved into our house only to find the next day when we went back that FIL had been round being helpful* and skipped the lot... including a nice 1980s Technics amp and tape deck.

 

The van seats are still manky, and I am 

Grumpy.

That's crap. If it helps a vax 121 will be shit for upholstery unless you can stand the machine up above the level your shampooing at... Its gravity fed, and anything higher than the level of the water and the water won't flow! 

[ruffgeezer]

25 minutes ago, beko1987 said:

That's crap. If it helps a vax 121 will be shit for upholstery unless you can stand the machine up above the level your shampooing at... Its gravity fed, and anything higher than the level of the water and the water won't flow! 

Do you have any recommendations @beko1987?  

[Zelandeth]

Just discovered our sodding garden waste bin has disappeared.  It's walked off to the far end of the street several times before - but I've just spent 45 minutes walking around in circles without any sight of it. 

I thought having scrawled our street name and house number all over every single surface would have discouraged this nonsense, apparently not.

[beko1987]

1 hour ago, ruffgeezer said:

Do you have any recommendations @beko1987?  

Every generation of tub after the vax 2000 had a pump. Can tell by the black connector that sits up top in roughly the same place it sits on the 121.

Doesnt help if you don't know what one looks like I admit but their cheap and plentiful. You still near Spalding/Boston ? I'll have a look

[High Jetter]

8 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

Christ I'd forgotten what a bloody horrible place to drive in Oxford is.  Hopefully that's my one visit for the next couple of years done so I don't need to venture that way again any time soon.

Nowhere near as bad as London, but still sodding unpleasant.  I always forget as well how outright suicidal a lot of the cyclists there are too.

Yup, we stayed on the outskirts then walked or used the bus. As a pedestrian, the cyclists were...problematic!

[RoverFolkUs]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:31 AM, Split_Pin said:

My dad was ripped off by a main dealer today (no surprise but wait until you hear this right old load of tripe).

He had his 2017 Volvo V40 cross country into John Clark Volvo in Edinburgh for a service and MOT. He's 74 now and hates the long and busy drive in from Linlithgow so they always collected it and dropped it back off which is brilliant.

They delivered it back to him and said that there were some rusty screws on the undertray and they broke it whilst trying to remove it. 

And charged him £400 for a new one (which took 3 days as the wrong part arrived initially)

It also needed a new front damper which was £160 for the part.

For a service, MOT, parts and labour, they charged him TWELVE HUNDERED POUNDS.

I'm below amateur and even I have removed an undertray which has had rusty fixings without breaking the thing. Cutting the bolt and making do with the no doubt countless other fixings would surely have sufficed.

Obviously he is going to complain but I'm beyond words how a main dealer can do this to someone. They obviously saw he was a pensioner who lived in a nice house and just took the piss. 

I'm really angry about it.

The undertray price is a total pisstake, if they did not speak to your dad before going ahead with it. I'd be livid too.

£160 for a shock (even for the part only) does not surprise me at a main dealer. Shocks are not cheap for newer cars. Looking at ECP it seems they're £155 each for a 2017 V40. But of course there lies the question was there actually anything wrong with it. Main dealers are ridiculously anal and what I may deem as a minor weep of fluid around a shock, a main stealer is likely to fail as a serious leak. 

On 9/27/2022 at 10:00 AM, juular said:

For the £400 I suspect almost anyone would say, fine, ditch the undertray.  Or cable tie it back on (which is easier in the long run to deal with).

A phonecall would have sorted all of this out.

£400 for an undertray and £160 for a shock isn't incompetence unfortunately, it's blatant profiteering out of people that don't have mechanical knowledge.

Undertray, yes profiteering I agree. The shock? I'm not so sure. £160 doesnt surprise me for a 2017 car from the dealer. As above they're £155 even from ECP

On 9/27/2022 at 10:12 AM, Talbot said:

Really?

If they find corroded fixings or some other issue that means the job takes longer, they just charge per hour labour to do the job.

In the event of corroded fixings on an undertray (which is a shit design in the first place.. they should be able to last longer than 5 years) even if the mechanic had to grind them off and then use new fixings with penny washers, that might be another 1/2hr labour and a few quid for fixings.

This is a classic case of a Main Stealer living up to the stereotype.

Main dealers run off book times. Mechanics are usually paid flat rate rather than hourly. They might be paid for example 0.8 hours for an oil change. The oil change might take 0.8 hours if the undertray comes off without difficulty. If they have to spend an hour faffing around with the undertray to try and save it, they won't be paid for it. And that hour they spend is lost when it could be used to do another job. 

That's why the main dealer approach is to replace not repair. There's no book time to repair undertray fixings and secure it with cable ties, so they can't charge the customer, can't pay the mechanic so they can't offer the job

However what is absolutely inexcusable is the fact @Split_Pin's dad was charged for the new undertray without being consulted. That is absolutely unacceptable

On 9/27/2022 at 10:41 AM, andyberg said:

Surely if they broke the undertray then they should replace at their cost??????

There's a difference between a mechanic breaking a part due to their negligence (e.g dropping it or installing or removing it incorrectly) and a part that would become damaged no matter who touched it next, which is normally the case with seized or corroded fittings.

If the fittings were seized there's not a lot that can be done and it's not their responsibility to pay for it.  But it's also not acceptable to charge the customer £400 for a poxy bit of plastic without their say so. I completely sympathize with that

On 9/27/2022 at 2:55 PM, DavieW said:

The thing I've found with main dealers of all colours is they don't "repair" parts, it's replacement. I've seem hubs with broken studs replaced as they can't or won't remove the broken stud. Same with sumps, replace because the sump plug snapped. As with the injector above, they won't entertain repair, same as the undertray,  whereas a non franchise garage will happily repair.

 

 

They are just told to replace things and are usually paid the book time to do it. And they're often on a bonus for whatever they manage to upsell. Eg reporting discs and pads that are 50% worn...

Their speciality is warranty or recall work. They'll be paid 1.2 hours by the manufacturer to replace a door latch or something on a certain model day in, day out

[RoverFolkUs]

On 9/27/2022 at 5:18 PM, twosmoke300 said:

A decent independent would have greased the bolts on the previous service so the undertray came off easily . 
 

Just sayin

Or just do away with it entirely!

I've got a stack of undertrays waiting to go in the skip 😆

No point keeping them when all the fixings are broken and they're all cracked and held on with about seven cable ties all looped round the subframe in weird positions

I'm talking about 15 year old cars here. No need for 'em whatsoever!

[Yoss]

The undertrays on my Favorits and Felicia are metal. They don't break. Just saying. 

[artdjones]

9 hours ago, RoverFolkUs said:

Or just do away with it entirely!

I've got a stack of undertrays waiting to go in the skip 😆

No point keeping them when all the fixings are broken and they're all cracked and held on with about seven cable ties all looped round the subframe in weird positions

I'm talking about 15 year old cars here. No need for 'em whatsoever!

The trouble with a lot of newer ones is that the undertray ties a load of other plastic bits together, so if it's missing the whole front end and bumper will flap about. So it's not really an option to throw it away. If one of those other plastic pieces comes loose and cuts a tyre, causing a blowout, the garage that left everything flapping about will be liable.

The dealer should have phoned the owner, but spending three hours saving the undertray would probably cost £300 anyway at main dealer rates.

I had a quick look at the V40 parts catalogue and the seems to be an alternative factory part made of metal. Who knows what that costs though.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:41 PM, wuvvum said:

Me.

'Cos I'm tight, I hate pissing about with suspension and unless I'm trying to beat my PB round the Nurburgring I'm unlikely to notice the difference in handling.

When I first read this , I thought “ Fuck me he’s  bought a Cresta” then I realised what PB meant.

Oh, and me. I replaced one spring on the Boxster recently too.