Ongoing P4 rectifications - ignition

[jonathan_dyane]

I picked up my new motah today which was excellent.

I have fancied a P4 for a while and with the GS off the driveway naturally I started itching to buy something else. This was the second P4 I looked at, the first was overpriced and needed too much work while the one I bought was reasonably priced but with a high wob factor and hadn't legitimately been on the road since the 1980s.

Having yesterday taken it for a short spin I decided it seemed reasonably roadworthy and could probably manage it back home under its own steam so this morning I insured it (a reasonable £122) and negotiated public transport and a decent walk to go pick the thing up.

After getting some petrol and calling at the post office (who remarkably managed to change the taxation class to historic and tax it) I founded myself driving down the sliproad to join the M56 in a car that was last taxed in 1987. Felt kinda heroic like.

(More later and maybe photos of tired Rover)

[jonathan_dyane]

I discovered that remarkably the clock works however the indicators, wipers etc. not so much.

[SiC]

Dirty fusebox contacts and associated spade connectors to it would be my first port of call. 

[jonathan_dyane]

I largely confined myself to lane 1 all the way back running with the wagons at 56mph (I did stray into the middle lane at one point to pass the inevitable asthmatic split screen VW camper- incidentally is it true they burst into flames at 60mph?) and as the miles went by I gradually became more confident that I might actually get home.

In terms of observations I was pleased with how punchy the Rover feels and clearly it would be happy at 70. Although it doesn't seem to smoke terribly it does smell a bit oily which makes me suspect it's breathing heavily. The temperature showed pretty low so either the guage or sender is u/s (or maybe voltage stabiliser) or the thermostat is stuck. I did become increasingly anxious about running out of petrol; naturally the gauge doesn't work and when I picked it up the fuel was set to reserve. These dinosaurs have a mad old double ended SU pump with a central valve block and a pumping mechanism and points on each end, one end is the normal part and the other end which picks up from the bottom of the tank is reserve. After sticking £50 in the tank (I didn't want to brim it in case it started pouring out everywhere) I set off with the selector switch back to main however shortly after conked out; clearly that end of the pump is u/s (although eminently rebuildable). I was however left with no way of monitoring fuel use and no reserve but hey it didn't stop.

As I pulled off the motorway I learnt that with a hot engine at tickover the oil pressure light illuminates (at least it works!) Probably TADTD to an extent although I suspect the engine is probably tired.

Last installment will follow shortly with appraisal on return home and photos.

 

[jonathan_dyane]

And so I arrived home

 

 

 

The issue I was having looking at P4's in my price range was that they tended to either look canny but be mechanically shot or be mechanically decent but look like they've been parked in a hedge for 30 years. Whilst this one has many imperfections it looks canny from 10 feet, has a nice interior and mostly seems fairly solid.

I realised early on in the journey home that wing mirrors are pretty fucking handy. I have now ordered some new old stock Denso Boomerangs to fill the holes in the wing which leaves only one hole, probably for an aerial but not an ideal location.

Under the bonnet looks reasonable. Fuel hose has been replaced but radiator hoses need doing. The glass windscreen washer vessel has been smashed/lost and replaced with some sort of plastic container which has spent some time melting on the exhaust manifold which will require addressing. Also note missing air filter and visible problem wiring.

Overall probably not a bad £3400 worth. With the exception of one outrigger underneath looks solid and the interior is very acceptable 

Number plates however are dreadful.

 

Tyres entirely unsuitable but legal (and they're 110 hubcaps)

And clearly the lower bodywork has at points been lovingly recreated in wob but as a oily rag runner it seems excellent.

Plan is to thoroughly check steering and brakes, replace hoses, tune up, get electrics more functional and drive, hopefully achieving without much spending.

[jonathan_dyane]

Incidentally another fun thing to work out with the wiring, I realised that one thing causing a problem was a slack battery terminal although on closer inspection the battery was fitted in negative earth configuration however the battery clamps are still set up for positive earth which was why one doesn't fit properly. On recognising this I realised that the ammeter is still set up for positive earth as what I thought was charging was actually discharge - it isn't charging and ammeter is reading backwards.

Possibility #1 battery has been connected backward hence backwards dynamo and no charging as dynamo hasn't been 'flashed' for negative earth

Possibility #2 other problems causing not charging.

The odd thing is the clock works and I didn't think that positive earth clocks would work with negative earth. And if the car had been 'converted' to negative earth if you went to the trouble of changing/converting the clock you would surely swap the ammeter wires around?

Hopefully I can get away without the expense and difficulty replacing the whole wiring loom!

[Saabnut]

Most likely the person who fitted the battery is under 60 years old so probably didn't know positive earth is a thing and has just fitted it the wrong way round. Swap it over and watch all* your problems disappear.

Disclaimer, connect loosely in case I am wrong and have a fire extinguisher to hand! Seriously briefly connect the leads the other way around and listen for sparks. If non, carry on.

[artdjones]

I seem to remember these drink a bit of oil even in tip top condition.

[bramz7]

I find myself liking cars of this era more and more now. Great buy. 

 

Also, I spy my former 406! I'm so glad it's still around. I spent quite a lot on sorting that car out after buying it from someone on FB. 

[Surface Rust]

That interior is superb, they usually suffer badly. You did well for the price if it's solid underneath.

Rings might be a bit sticky if it's been sat for years which could cause excess blow by. Might come around with a bit of use.

[lesapandre]

They look best in black. It's got that nose-up look - these lose the tempering on the rear springs and thus sag at the back and do look even better with the ride height corrected - sometime. 

The individual front seats are rarer and nicer.

Lovely car.

[DSdriver]

And now the fun begins...

(Why is there a sink plunger next to the drivers leg position?)

[somewhatfoolish]

4 hours ago, DSdriver said:

And now the fun begins...

(Why is there a sink plunger next to the drivers leg position?)

That's the handbrake.

[jonathan_dyane]

9 hours ago, bramz7 said:

I find myself liking cars of this era more and more now. Great buy. 

 

Also, I spy my former 406! I'm so glad it's still around. I spent quite a lot on sorting that car out after buying it from someone on FB. 

The 406 is my sensible modern daily 😅

[comfortablynumb]

Lovely looking car.

Re. Campers, if the one I had is anything to go by, if it had burst into flames I'd have been inordinately grateful.

Hateful piece of shit, vying with a Firenza for title of the worst vehicle I've ever had..

[Angrydicky]

I think the original number plates are still there underneath those ones.

You can see the Ace logo in the top corner of the rear one.

I suspect they were originally raised digit type where the digits have since gone awol. It would be interesting to take those ones off and have a butchers though.

[jonathan_dyane]

On 04/09/2024 at 13:32, Angrydicky said:

I think the original number plates are still there underneath those ones.

You can see the Ace logo in the top corner of the rear one.

I suspect they were originally raised digit type where the digits have since gone awol. It would be interesting to take those ones off and have a butchers though.

I had a spare 30 mins (which would undoubtedly have been better employed elsewhere) so I investigated...

 

It is conceivable that I could scavenge/obtain suitable letters to revert back to the original arrangement which I might try and do such is my hatred for the current plate(s).

Also predictably there appear to be many leaks to fix before further dissolving and rotting of carpets. Looks likely to be windscreen rubber at the front and the rubber around the boot lid at the rear 

[Stinkwheel]

18 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

incidentally is it true they burst into flames at 60mph?

Hopefully, yes

[jonathan_dyane]

A small further piece of ineffectual faffing around with some more snatched time.

I swapped the battery around for positive earth configuration 

Battery looks good but a bit fucked

Then with no sparks or fire thought I'd see if it would start and perhaps charge

Started great once I took it out of gear, I even took a video but can't work out how to upload/share here.

Still no charging though, further investigation required. It did start beautifully however with no smoke.

Next job definitely looking at the wiring

[lesapandre]

You may want to try some silicone in the seals first off to see if the situation is salvageable. I expect they are rotted and shrunk.

If do replacements watch out for quality of what goes back. That's the kind of job I'd farm out to a specialist on the windscreen.

There are are a number of number plate experts on here who may well know where lettering can be got?

@LightBulbFun and @HMC spring to mind as people who have looked into this recently.

[mat_the_cat]

8 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

I swapped the battery around for positive earth configuration 

Still no charging though, further investigation required.

Have you managed to make time run backwards though?

[jonathan_dyane]

Just now, mat_the_cat said:

Have you managed to make time run backwards though?

😁 

Interestingly the clock is still going and definitely forwards! I suspect it is the time which is part mechanical and there is a tiny solenoid thing inside making it work which obviously isn't sensitive to polarity

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

There are are a number of number plate experts on here who may well know where lettering can be got?

@LightBulbFun and @HMC spring to mind as people who have looked into this recently.

thankfully there are a few people flogging number plate digits/numbers on eBay, for example if you search "ace number plate" you will get a few listings of people flogging digits for Ace number plates 

also Tippers vintage plates offer a number plate restoration service  https://tippersvintageplates.co.uk/restoration-renovation/

[AnthonyG]

Hey @jonathan_dyane, there’s a factory workshop manual for these in a secondhand bookshop in my mum’s village  - it’s £8, which I think is a bit of a bargain - although obviously they’d be postage on that unless you can collect from Herefordshire (nr Kington) or Cheltenham. 

Anyway, I doubt it will have sold in the last week as it’s been there for at least a year, PM me if you want me to get it for you. My rough guess on postage is around a £5.

[jonathan_dyane]

@AnthonyG that's very kind of you but unfortunately I've just bought one off eBay for £22 ...

[AnthonyG]

If that’s the going rate I might pick it up anyway, on behalf on the inevitable next P4 owner on here! 

[lesapandre]

13 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

If that’s the going rate I might pick it up anyway, on behalf on the inevitable next P4 owner on here! 

Definitely worth picking that up. They seem to make up to £30-50 (at least that's what they ask) - the earlier (pre-reprint versions by BLMC) are the most charming.

I say this because if it sits on the shelf too long - some charity shops understandably refresh their shelves and disguarded books go in the rag bin.

Though interestingly my recycling friend tells me the books eventually get  gathered up and sent in artics to European factories to get made into insulation material used in cars.

Some charity shops won't put out 'old books' because of slow demand - so it sounds a good shop if they will bookshelf a workshop manual. 

[Westbay]

18 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

thankfully there are a few people flogging number plate digits/numbers on eBay, for example if you search "ace number plate" you will get a few listings of people flogging digits for Ace number plates 

also Tippers vintage plates offer a number plate restoration service  https://tippersvintageplates.co.uk/restoration-renovation/

.. and another option ...

https://www.classicplatesonline.co.uk/

[jonathan_dyane]

2 hours ago, Westbay said:

.. and another option ...

https://www.classicplatesonline.co.uk/

Cheaper therefore tempting. I would prefer silver digits but their white 3 1/2 inch plate looks canny

[jonathan_dyane]

Getting serious