Ongoing P4 rectifications - ignition

[jonathan_dyane]

No hot brake servo action yet but I had enough time today to mess around with hoses.

Almost all the radiator/cooling hoses were badly perished so having procured some new ones from Mr Wearing I drained the system and set to. Just as well I did as the system did not appear to contain any antifreeze whatsoever only rusty water and silt. Being a high quality automobile there is a drain plug at the bottom of the radiator and an easily accessable tap to drain the block. Being badly neglected opening both resulted in nothing escaping until I prodded at them with a suitable screwdriver. There was much back flushing until water went clear.

Drain cock just visible under carb linkage 

Heater valve was stuck but I managed to get it moving with some persuasion.

Old hoses, bottom hose on the left was ok the rest knackered.

Remarkably the thermostat housing came off without any difficulty or destruction. There was no thermostat as I had suspected, nice replacement now in situ.

I haven't bought any antifreeze yet so it's currently empty of coolant but I still put the new radiator cap on. The cap that was fitted appeared to be off a 1990s Peugeot and was the wrong pressure entirely although looked like it probably wouldn't have held any pressure. 

The original caps were round and can still be bought but the ones with lugs are cheaper although sit at a jaunty angle which probably upsets the purists 🧐

I still have this little blighter to replace, the bypass hose. I haven't bothered because the water pump needs to come off to replace it and it's almost a certainty that the pump will start leaking shortly after the car starts getting used again...

[TrabbieRonnie]

I've flushed and refilled the coolant on my old girl, but didn't know about the drain tap at the rear of the block...  Will have another go I think!  I took got very little in the way of anti-freeze out.

I'll be following your servo shenanigans closely too, as mine started sucking dot 4 through the engine yesterday, resulting in a fair old cloud!  I've been having trouble getting a firm pedal, and bleeding the system in general. 

With no plans to drive her on the road until the Spring, I may well just loop out the servo just now, and try one of the Lockheed units then.  At least I could have some brakes for easier movement around the yard.

Good work, and thank you for posting, you're indirectly helping another old P4 back to health up here!

[Zelandeth]

55 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

No hot brake servo action yet but I had enough time today to mess around with hoses.

Almost all the radiator/cooling hoses were badly perished so having procured some new ones from Mr Wearing I drained the system and set to. Just as well I did as the system did not appear to contain any antifreeze whatsoever only rusty water and silt. Being a high quality automobile there is a drain plug at the bottom of the radiator and an easily accessable tap to drain the block. Being badly neglected opening both resulted in nothing escaping until I prodded at them with a suitable screwdriver. There was much back flushing until water went clear.

Drain cock just visible under carb linkage 

Heater valve was stuck but I managed to get it moving with some persuasion.

Old hoses, bottom hose on the left was ok the rest knackered.

Remarkably the thermostat housing came off without any difficulty or destruction. There was no thermostat as I had suspected, nice replacement now in situ.

I haven't bought any antifreeze yet so it's currently empty of coolant but I still put the new radiator cap on. The cap that was fitted appeared to be off a 1990s Peugeot and was the wrong pressure entirely although looked like it probably wouldn't have held any pressure. 

The original caps were round and can still be bought but the ones with lugs are cheaper although sit at a jaunty angle which probably upsets the purists 🧐

I still have this little blighter to replace, the bypass hose. I haven't bothered because the water pump needs to come off to replace it and it's almost a certainty that the pump will start leaking shortly after the car starts getting used again...

Look on the plus side...that bypass hose is far worse on the 110. 

In that there is no hose...just an O-ring between the head and water pump body.  Which perishes exactly as you'd expect.  Your choice of you pull the head, water pump or both.  My vote was going to be head - while it's more work in theory, it's way *less* work than dealing with broken water pump bolts.

[jonathan_dyane]

@TrabbieRonnie helpfully the block drain tap is the right size for you to be able to hold a garden hose on it so you can get all the silt moving, it didn't take too long alternating between the hose on the tap and other entries to get it running clear

[jonathan_dyane]

A proper update is overdue (and will follow) but here's some photos from today at the shops. 

Also see ridiculous mirror extensions which means the mirrors are actually now usable and not just an ornament (yeah different mirrors with longer arms would look better but this was cheaper...

 

[Yoss]

Do You have potatoes with everything? 

 

Great looking car BTW. 

[jonathan_dyane]

The wiper blades looked older than me however I realised that the modern refills fit and one refill was enough to do both wipers.

Not a bad result for £3.

[jonathan_dyane]

So onto the brakes.

@Stinkwheel very kindly gave me a brake servo 

And I acquired a mounting bracket from John Wearing. So I wrestled out the old servo.

And successful fitted the new mounting bracket to the chassis with the original 60 year old bolts which remarkably came undone beautifully. I also took the opportunity to top up the steering box which has been leaking profusely onto my drive ever since. I may investigate some of that magic greaseoil stuff which is the bodge for this sort of problem.

Unfortunately I then realised that the bracket didn't seem to fit the Servo 🤔

I then did the research I should have done to start with and identified that the 'new' servo was a 7 inch with a 1.9 to 1 ratio whereas the servo that is generally regarded as the one for the job is a 8 inch servo with 3:1 ratio. I considered redrilling the bracket to fit but ultimately decided against it because the brake force required would I think have been excessive and spoilt the drive.

More to follow, also note I now have a 7 inch Lockheed 1.9:1 servo available FOC to a shifter who will use it; I believe it could be used to upgrade an originally non-servo system.

[TrabbieRonnie]

Excellent work, wish mine was fit for running about in!

My servo is different to your old and new ones...

A Mk2b apparently (above pic was prior to my 'rebuild').  Still waiting for better weather to get it refitted.

 

[jonathan_dyane]

So I decided that I really needed a Lockheed 3:1 8 inch remote servo.

You can still buy a 'genuine' Lockheed servo although Lockheed are long gone whoever bought them out still sells them, apparently the quality is good but they are like £300 which seems too much. Alternatively you can get a Chinese copy for about £60 to £80 but they seem to be pretty shit. I was contemplating buying a second hand one to rebuild but then I spotted a 'new old stock' original Lockheed available for £125 and decided to take a chance on that.

It didn't take too much fitting but I had to make up a nose bracket which I did with some ally strip in finest giffer style.

I found that the brake fluid reservoir was full of sludge so I washed it out with hot water and dried it thoroughly with a hairdryer. The bleeding was a protracted affair and I had to resort to wedging the brake pedal down overnight to get the last of the air out. I splashed out and bought a new combined brake fluid cap/level sensor because the original one had disintegrated and the level warning is pretty vital in a single circuit system.

The result?

The brakes are much improved but still not quite as good as I think they should be, also the pedal travel seems excessive. The pads are pretty new and could perhaps use more bedding in and it is possible that the master cylinder pushrod needs adjustment but I suspect it's probably more likely that the master cylinder could use rebuilding and is probably full of the sludge that was in the fluid reservoir and so is a bit sticky/not returning fully. More exploration required but for now it is operational.

[jonathan_dyane]

So I have been using this whenever I can. I did have a bit of a mishap where the (already suspect) battery expired at the Asda filling station. I could see that there was a slope down from the end of the forecourt so decided I could push the car across the forecourt and bump start it on the slope. As I started pushing I realised that actually the forecourt itself was uphill but persevered despite it being bloody hard going. Naturally when I got to the downward slope the bastard didn't start so I had to call my wife to get her to run over and give me a jump start.

Helpfully I discovered that there is an excellent scrap metal merchant in Leigh and I took them the old battery and two other duds and they took them in as a straight swap for one serviceable battery.

The bad news? I totally fucked up my back pushing the thing and it has taken a week to recover!

[jonathan_dyane]

So overall it's running rather well however as well as the master cylinder needing more investigation the clutch and handbrake need adjusting which with my back out I haven't felt up to dealing with yet. It is a pleasure to drive and with a bit of a fiddle the heater is now operational and works remarkably well.

There is a reluctance to start when hot so I'm going to replace the condenser and rotor arm with replacements from Distributor Doctor and unless they are proper old spec and still serviceable the points too and check out the distributor cap. With this done and timing/dwell/gap set I will move on to valve clearances and carburation. Also still on the job card sorting out the drivers rear and passenger front door latches which don't open from the inside and seat belts.

So much fun 😀 

[Zelandeth]

1 hour ago, jonathan_dyane said:

So I decided that I really needed a Lockheed 3:1 8 inch remote servo.

You can still buy a 'genuine' Lockheed servo although Lockheed are long gone whoever bought them out still sells them, apparently the quality is good but they are like £300 which seems too much. Alternatively you can get a Chinese copy for about £60 to £80 but they seem to be pretty shit. I was contemplating buying a second hand one to rebuild but then I spotted a 'new old stock' original Lockheed available for £125 and decided to take a chance on that.

It didn't take too much fitting but I had to make up a nose bracket which I did with some ally strip in finest giffer style.

I found that the brake fluid reservoir was full of sludge so I washed it out with hot water and dried it thoroughly with a hairdryer. The bleeding was a protracted affair and I had to resort to wedging the brake pedal down overnight to get the last of the air out. I splashed out and bought a new combined brake fluid cap/level sensor because the original one had disintegrated and the level warning is pretty vital in a single circuit system.

The result?

The brakes are much improved but still not quite as good as I think they should be, also the pedal travel seems excessive. The pads are pretty new and good perhaps use more bedding in and it is possible that the master cylinder pushrod needs adjustment but I suspect it's probably more likely that the master cylinder could use rebuilding and is probably full of the sludge that was in the fluid reservoir and so is a bit sticky/not returning fully. More exploration required but for now it is operational.

Have the rears been adjusted?  A little bit of excess play there could result in quite a bit of additional pedal travel?

[jonathan_dyane]

44 minutes ago, Zelandeth said:

Have the rears been adjusted?  A little bit of excess play there could result in quite a bit of additional pedal travel?

Good call

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Have the rears been adjusted?  A little bit of excess play there could result in quite a bit of additional pedal travel?

Or is there adjustment at the pedal end itself?

[jonathan_dyane]

20 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Or is there adjustment at the pedal end itself?

There is I believe on the master cylinder pushrod, definitely one to explore after adjusting the back brakes 

[2flags]

Make sure the back brakes are properly adjusted first. I had problems with the Landy when a 'professional' adjusted the brakes which left me with a brake pedal that needed a double pump! He swore that they were fine. They were after I adjusted the rear brakes properly. Needless to say, I never went back. 

[Mr Pastry]

Ditto, rear brake adjustment first.  Master cylinder pushrod shouldn't need to be touched unless replacing.

[jonathan_dyane]

I did some work on the ignition today, the points, condenser and rotor arm from Distributor Doctor had arrived along with a new distributor cap from eBay.

Distributor without points and condenser.

Old points and condenser. Note condenser particularly looks tired with frayed wire. Points don't look awful but have the crappy plastic heel rather than fiber so I decided to fit the new set.

Old alongside new. 

The new 'Accuspark' bargain distributor cap was a total waste of time and money, as soon as I tried to screw in an HT lead it disintegrated! 

To give the benefit of the doubt it may have had a knock in the post although I suspect it was more a case of it being utter shit. The one on the car is fortunately still serviceable for now.

After all this work how did it drive? Terrible! I went for a test run and it sounded rough and was well down on power. It felt heavily retarded but I was confused how the timing might have slipped. On investigation it transpired that the distributor clamp was loose and when I had been working on the distributor I had obviously inadvertently moved it. 

With the engine ticking over I rotated the distributor until the engine sounded sweet then I fine tuned it with the time-honoured method of advancing it gradually and incrementally until pinking was evident when the engine was labouring then very slightly retarded it.

With this work done I was rewarded with the engine running very nicely, pulling well, decent tickover and best of all the hot start difficulty seems to be, at least for now, cured.

Next job is the carb. The jet adjusting mechanism seems loose and doesn't seem to do anything, similarly altering the slow running valve doesn't seem to achieve much, a full strip down and clean is probably the best next step.