project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Making New Bits

[Shite Ron]

This is a great looking car and not one I recall seeing before. Very well bought, I am looking forward to seeing updates on this and also very impressed that the Princess is now your modern car. Congratulations on a great buy, you must be very excited waiting for it to arrive.

[wuvvum]

That bootlid looks a lot like the one on the Daimler.  I wonder if it only opens up about 15 degrees like the Daimler's did?

[wuvvum]

1 hour ago, somewhatfoolish said:

Are these not a centrifugal clutch rather than fluid flywheel? There's little enough power on tap without wasting it.

Defo fluid flywheel on these.  They weren't built for performance...

[Angrydicky]

What a beautiful old crock, I absolutely adore it and am insanely jealous! I'll have to come and visit it/you (in the Somerset, naturally) when this is all over! 

I'm firmly in the 'do not paint' camp and those front seats don't look bad at all for 70 odd years old. Loads of leather cream to soften them up and some sympathetic repairs are all that are required.

Nice Coventry numberplate too and original plates as well. Another big bonus in my eyes as so many of these have had their plates nicked.

Jeremy Clarkson once described his co-presenter's Lanchester as "like driving around in a radiogram". I think he was right!

[PhilA]

1 minute ago, wuvvum said:

Defo fluid flywheel on these.

What kind of diameter? Mine is about 16" across and is locked almost solid by about 800rpm- would have thought similar characteristics on this would be desired.

[HMC]

Great buy! Love the originality, especially its original reg.  So nice to see.

IIRC Michael Sedgwick in My falling to bits classic cars 1945-1970 refered to them as “retired colonel type transport”
 

Hence I do hope you grow an impressive moustache for deployment after recommissioning.

[barrett]

30 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

We haven't decided if we're getting the seats reupholstered with new, or are going to just attempt to repair the damage and retain the aged look. 

Under no circumstances can you replace the leather. That is literally 100 per cent of the appeal of an old car - new upholstery is always (with about 1 in 100,000,000 exceptions) horrible, and it will never age the same way as old upholstery. I cannot stress this enough - if you put new leather in, the car will be ruined forever.

It is, of course, possible to make a good fist of new upholstery, but conservatively it's going to cost £10k to do it anywhere near as well as original. 99 per cent of new old car leather is pre-coloured hides, which always look wrong, for example. Ditto the stuffing, stitching, anything else - only a tiny handful of people actually have the skills, or the attention to detail, to do a proper job.

Again, just in case you didn't hear me: DO NOT RETRIM

[PhilA]

6 minutes ago, HMC said:

IIRC Michael Sedgwick in My falling to bits classic cars 1945-1970 refered to them as “retired colonel type transport”

Hercules Grytpype-Thinne?

[Christine]

If you need horse hair.....see me!

[Angrydicky]

3 minutes ago, barrett said:

Under no circumstances can you replace the leather. That is literally 100 per cent of the appeal of an old car - new upholstery is always (with about 1 in 100,000,000 exceptions) horrible, and it will never age the same way as old upholstery. I cannot stress this enough - if you put new leather in, the car will be ruined forever.

It is, of course, possible to make a good fist of new upholstery, but conservatively it's going to cost £10k to do it anywhere near as well as original. 99 per cent of new old car leather is pre-coloured hides, which always look wrong, for example. Ditto the stuffing, stitching, anything else - only a tiny handful of people actually have the skills, or the attention to detail, to do a proper job.

Again, just in case you didn't hear me: DO NOT RETRIM

Well said. I wish the Standard had its original interior, but it had already been retrimmed (badly) when we got it and ideally needs doing again. Ditto the original paint etc.

[vulgalour]

@barrett one of the big turn offs to a retrim is precisely what you say, those predyed leathers just look too uniform and artificial, sometimes even looking like it's been redone in vinyl  The texture is usually wrong too.  The leather in the car is actually still quite supple, I was expecting it to be dry and cardboardy, but it's still quite springy.  The damage on the passenger seat looks like a cat has used it as a scratching post, and if I remember there's a tear across the back seat.  Hopefully we can just bridge it from the back, or insert a piece of old leather from another seat or something like that.  The door cards hopefully just need a bit of a reglue and some care to get their shape back, at worst new backing boards.

[egg]

Any idea why the DVLA says this is a 1957 registered and 57 built car?

[DSdriver]

I look forward to being stuck in a queue behind you

[Tadhg Tiogar]

24 minutes ago, Christine said:

If you need horse hair.....see me!

Or me.

3 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

I look forward to being stuck in a queue behind you

...on a steep hill.

[vulgalour]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

Any idea why the DVLA says this is a 1957 registered and 57 built car?

None, though we do have several theories.

Theory 1 is that someone messed up at the DVLA and misread a 1 as a 7.

Theory 2 is that it went abroad at some point and was reimported a few years later, so got slapped with a '57 registration date

Theory 3 is that it sat around unsold/registered somewhere for the first few years of its life.  Perhaps that first owner was MOD or something of that sort.

Other than that, no idea.  It's got a new-ish V5 and the DVLA know it exists so I'm not going to worry about it.

[LightBulbFun]

16 hours ago, egg said:

Any idea why the DVLA says this is a 1957 registered and 57 built car?

 

16 hours ago, vulgalour said:

None, though we do have several theories.

Theory 1 is that someone messed up at the DVLA and misread a 1 as a 7.

Theory 2 is that it went abroad at some point and was reimported a few years later, so got slapped with a '57 registration date

Theory 3 is that it sat around unsold/registered somewhere for the first few years of its life.  Perhaps that first owner was MOD or something of that sort.

Other than that, no idea.  It's got a new-ish V5 and the DVLA know it exists so I'm not going to worry about it.

KKVxxx was first issued in May 1951 (nice to see it still retains its original mark  ) so I suspect at some point as you say the 1 may have been miss read as a 7 etc

(probably when it was transferred from a buff logbook to the DVLC V5 computer system)

as a side note currently the DVLA only have it recorded as registered in 1957 right now im pretty sure the year of manufacture is not actually explicitly recorded yet

but probably will get updated once the new V5 arrives and or its taxed again etc

 

you cant see it without 3rd party tools now, but the DVLA only started recording the year of manufacture recently (unless declared otherwise)

and on old versions of the DVLA checker you could see this in action, old records that had not been updated in many years would not actually have a year of manufacture recorded

but once a vehicle gets a new V5 issued and is taxed once more etc a year of mfg would suddenly pop up

 

AFAIK as above the internal system still works like this from what I have seen/can tell, but the newer DVLA checker just get the year of manufacture from the date of first registration, even if its not explicitly recorded yet

 

as a side note if you can do the keeper transfer online, you get to keep the 2008 V5 and id try and do so

as it looks like it will have the "1st" keepers details on it  (or more specifically Im guessing the V5 probably says "number of former keepers since July 1977" or whenever it was V5'ed as the keeper counts would not always be moved over from the buff logbook so they would put a special note of that in the V5 saying the keeper count only goes back to such and such date)

[morrisoxide]

Brilliant purchase!

I bet that interior smells wonderful after a blast on a B road on warm day. The smell of decaying leather, horse hair, wood, petrol and a slight whiff of oil. 

Needs a crochet rug and a map from 1953 on the back seat stat 

[somewhatfoolish]

1 hour ago, PhilA said:

Hercules Grytpype-Thinne?

More Major Denis Bloodnok I think.

 

1 hour ago, vulgalour said:

@barrett one of the big turn offs to a retrim is precisely what you say, those predyed leathers just look too uniform and artificial, sometimes even looking like it's been redone in vinyl  The texture is usually wrong too.  The leather in the car is actually still quite supple, I was expecting it to be dry and cardboardy, but it's still quite springy.  The damage on the passenger seat looks like a cat has used it as a scratching post, and if I remember there's a tear across the back seat.  Hopefully we can just bridge it from the back, or insert a piece of old leather from another seat or something like that.  The door cards hopefully just need a bit of a reglue and some care to get their shape back, at worst new backing boards.

What is it about old leather that's different? Is the colour a surface finish in effect(I vaguely recall the bright red in Jag Mk2s was like that)? In which case could undyed hide not be used and then coloured using a kit?

[jonny69]

I don’t think I appreciated that this was coachbuilt. Amazing!

 

or did I mean fuggin hell, shiters knocking about in old coachbuilt tin, this place ain’t what it used to be etc

[Christine]

I watched the Bentley build program on telly a few weeks ago " We have 500,000 pounds worth of hide at any one tiime... It's all perfect ...We only have leather from  bulls .. Cow leather has stretch marks ...We only  have the best this We only have the best that....etc. ."  The next program was Aston   Martin , somewhat similar.....but more performance orientated... 

The next program was how they build a Morgan  in a shed ...? Nothing was said about the source of leather !  

 

 

 

 

[vulgalour]

@Christine Yes please on the little motoring book, that's a lovely looking thing just for the cover really.

 

[puddlethumper]

8 hours ago, vulgalour said:

glitter paint, murals, buttoned crushed velour interior, sketchy radio install, fibreglass additions, fog light to illuminate the rear axle (chromed, naturally)....

And a spanner welded on the diff. 

[Christine]

Yeah  i thought i had a Lanchester book in the attic , apparently not ...but i found that map booklet  ,  Detling hill was well scary in those days by the look of it .. Now a dual carriageway, in those days a single ..so a good chance of a full speed runaway head on !!  
 

[lesapandre]

Ditto for the leather. Repair will retain the character. If necessary get specialist help - will be less than a retrim.

Bodies - the all steel Briggs bodies were manufactured in Dagenham and I think shipped up by rail to Coventry. Wikipedia says that this led to supply problems (Briggs having Ford as their main customer) and Ford took them over in 1954. 

The Barker bodies interestingly were a step back in that they are wood framed I think. Being coach built I wonder if the chassis were sent down to Barker in London for completion? Bit of a convoluted history and all that sending of parts about the country must have eaten into profits. I'm sure the owners club will know more.

[vulgalour]

Can confirm, the Barker body, which this one is, has a wooden frame with aluminium banged over the top.  I'm not sure what exactly is shared between the Briggs and Barker bodies, if anything, though I suspect the front wings are, and the infill panel that goes behind the front bumper.  The panels on the side of the bonnet might too.  This is one of those cars with a hinged bonnet lid, and then two removable panels, one each side, if you need a bit more room to get in the engine bay.  The rear arches on the Briggs body are part of the body, while the Barker ones are separate, so they're not interchangable, but both are steel.  Presumably having the wings in steel rather than aluminium was done because they can brush off more substantial bumps.

[320touring]

That is JUST LUSH.

lovely biscuits!

 

[Vantman]

A bit off topic but if you need parts this is the number you need,at the head of the letter!!!    Actually it's the parts needed for a Lanchester Eleven that was in for repair at the garage where i first started work. 

[ETCHY]

Interesting shape. To my eyes the back end looks more modern than the front.

It's got real character, bloody superb !

[motorpunk]

Vulg’, this is lovely, well done and thanks for sharing.

[somewhatfoolish]

1 hour ago, Vantman said:

A bit off topic but if you need parts this is the number you need,at the head of the letter!!!    Actually it's the parts needed for a Lanchester Eleven that was in for repair at the garage where i first worked. 

Sadly 'Daimler House', 290 Willesden Ln seems to be a block of flats and a Shell garage these days.