Ask a Shiter

[sierraman]

Exhaust will be the flex on the manifold, it all comes as one piece, they’re usually about £45-50 for an aftermarket one. Bottom arms piece of piss on those. Undo the pinch bolt and the front/rear bush carriers and put it comes, just watch you don’t pull the driveshaft out when you move the strut a bit. The spray on underseal will be perfectly adequate in this case, wirebrush the loose stuff off, then give it 2-3 coats. 

[tooSavvy]

MOT & rust/£value ratio...

I just spent nowt for a year and MOTd ToMM© yesterday, to sell on (for not much) to fund a 1.0 badermatic 😕

OK..... So the bean can I'm getting hasn't failed a MOT in 22 yr.

I'm addicted, me...

[tul66]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=james+brown+take+it+to+the+bridge+gif&&view=detail&mid=F54FBFBDCAB688848D26F54FBFBDCAB688848D26&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Djames%2Bbrown%2Btake%2Bit%2Bto%2Bthe%2Bbridge%2Bgif%26FORM%3DHDRSC3

[juular]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:45 AM, andy29 said:

Oh boy, learning to weld... that would be wonderful, but I would be starting from zero knowledge other than a few Youtube videos. Still, the car could wait for me to get a clue, no hurry.

It's a little bit of investment in time and money but it is an investment nonetheless, and in the future it'll repay you many times over. The main hurdle is storage / work space and the initial outlay for the machine, gas, PPE and the metal itself. The running costs after that are very very small. If you consider that your average welding job on an old heap costs about a hundred quid it doesn't take long for it to repay you. Plus you get to keep the tools and knowledge.

When I joined this forum a year ago I'd never even considered welding but it really surprised me how quickly it can be picked up. The most difficult part is in cutting and shaping new metal to fit, but on an old shitter that just has to pass an MOT that matters much less as you can just chop out the rot and weld new plates over. There are loads of people on here that can help out too.

It also opens the option of taking on other more desirable chod that may be passed over by others because of rust, and getting it quite cheaply. It gets very addictive though! 

[andy29]

  

On 10/13/2020 at 9:29 AM, sierraman said:

Exhaust will be the flex on the manifold, it all comes as one piece, they’re usually about £45-50 for an aftermarket one. Bottom arms piece of piss on those. Undo the pinch bolt and the front/rear bush carriers and put it comes, just watch you don’t pull the driveshaft out when you move the strut a bit. The spray on underseal will be perfectly adequate in this case, wirebrush the loose stuff off, then give it 2-3 coats. 

Pulling the driveshaft out, yeah will make sure I avoid that, yikes. Get the loose crap off and do two or three coats of the spray, got it. My exhaust manifold goes straight into the cat through the flange, am I misunderstanding? Don't know why the guy who looked said I would need a new cat (for a bajillion pounds), can't really pester him for a reply any more than I have. Rust spots on it don't look good but as you know the MOT did say it was the flange, so...!? I'll have less crap descriptions when I get the bits to have a look at it myself.

On 10/12/2020 at 11:57 PM, dozeydustman said:

Haynes manual will be fine for most simple jobs. Beware the spanner/skill rating often tells fibs.

It overestimates how hard things are, right? Right? 😀

[sierraman]

Is it a 1.8? They’ve a manicat on them - an awesome idea of combining the manifold and the cat. If it is the the flange then even better though you’ll probably end up cutting the bolts off so have a pair of spare 15mm nuts and bolts. Cut the bolts clean the faces up and put a new gasket and bolts. Strictly speaking you can’t use sealant up river from the cat but at this point it’s bye the bye really, you are eking our another year or two from the car. 

Theres a few different types on those 1.8 I’ve done over the years, some of the older ones fitted to the Mondeo’s had a joint between the manifold and the cat, the cat being behind the radiator, later ones which I’d say yours will be, had the manifold and cat one piece if that makes sense?

[sierraman]

8 hours ago, andy29 said:

 

It overestimates how hard things are, right? Right? 😀

It was written based on a six month old car being took to bits in a garage environment, not a 20 year old rusty one took apart at the roadside. Example say the rear lower control arms the springs sit in. Says in the book probably mark and undo the rear camber bolts... yeah good luck with that - those fuckers will have fused to the arm. 

Whatever you do avoid disturbing the rear suspension on these cars, no exaggeration to say you’ll have to cut 75% of the bolts off. 

[andy29]

I see what you mean. Sure is a 1.8 with the cat vertically right under the manifold. Depends how early they changed, it's from '99 and if the diagram in the Haynes book is right then maybe I'm lucky and there should be a joint there. The guy didn't take the heat shield off so maybe that's why he thought the whole thing should go? I'll have a look, if the heat shield bolts would like to co-operate. Sounds like it's the difference between a gasket + bolts or £500+ worth of cat and manifold which probably equals dead car. Nice.

Fair enough about the book, christ no wonder I was told it was a big job if the rust gets too bad in a place where the rear suspension would need to be dropped down.

[andy29]

Well... looking from the outside round the heat shield, naturally I can see everywhere but where I want to see. Can't see a mention of a both in one type in my Haynes book (1998 to 2001, S to Y reg) so still hoping to be lucky and I'll see if I can get the shield off when I get a chance.

Any chance of getting a second hand one if I do end up needing the whole thing? Or do breakers just sell them straight to people who want the metals from them? If I could get one for a couple of hundred or something, at least it's a bit more sane.

[sierraman]

The heat shield bolts might break but not end of world, is it an obvious blow from the gasket or is it the manifold cracked, they used to make a crappy monkey metal manifold that was prone to cracking between the branches. I’ve got one somewhere I’ll show you the type. 

[andy29]

As long as I can replace the bolts I suppose but I'll go as carefully as I can for now anyway. Got some PlusGas on em. Can't say any more for tonight but it was definitely somewhere around the cat and the engine itself. At the age the car is I'm expecting everything to look shitty but the leak's getting bigger so hopefully there's some evidence there. No need to go out of your way but any information is very helpful.

[andy29]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:37 AM, juular said:

It's a little bit of investment in time and money but it is an investment nonetheless, and in the future it'll repay you many times over. The main hurdle is storage / work space and the initial outlay for the machine, gas, PPE and the metal itself. The running costs after that are very very small. If you consider that your average welding job on an old heap costs about a hundred quid it doesn't take long for it to repay you. Plus you get to keep the tools and knowledge.

When I joined this forum a year ago I'd never even considered welding but it really surprised me how quickly it can be picked up. The most difficult part is in cutting and shaping new metal to fit, but on an old shitter that just has to pass an MOT that matters much less as you can just chop out the rot and weld new plates over. There are loads of people on here that can help out too.

It also opens the option of taking on other more desirable chod that may be passed over by others because of rust, and getting it quite cheaply. It gets very addictive though! 

I'm starting to really hope I can find the room to put a machine one day. I really must look into it, it seems like a fantastic ability to have. And the difference in cost between paying someone to do it vs being able to do it yourself, in your spare time, with equipment you've already invested in is going to become very big very quickly isn't it (unless the supplies for it are expensive, I wouldn't know). Plus you know exactly what you've done, so if you do get skilled enough for important parts, you know it's going to be safe etc. I can see how it's addictive, I love it when I can fix something that most people would have just tossed away, on top of knowing that YOU did it.

[sierraman]

Does your manifold look like this one? 

[hairnet]

Is this ok

Left - the one bought thread and pitch is fine

Right - the oe taken off

I was expecting more thread thru the nut but hey

Is the bigger cone a problem?

Thanks

[Tetleysmooth]

WD 40 v Plusgas, what's the best for loosening yer nuts?

[sierraman]

1 hour ago, Tetleysmooth said:

WD 40 v Plusgas, what's the best for loosening yer nuts?

Anything but WD40, it’s ok for kids bikes or getting marker off a painted wall. Other than that it’s mammothly shit. ECP QX stuff is 600ml and only about £2-3. 

[andy29]

7 hours ago, sierraman said:

Does your manifold look like this one? 

Thank you for taking the time to do that sierraman, I think it does, I think I can see that left hand bolt - but a proper look might have to be put on hold for a few days because I needed to use it today and now it seems like I'm going to be waiting for the rain to sod off.

I'm being very careful with the heat shield because it was already a bit broken up at the top when I got it in '08, however I guess because the garage fixed it up at that time (included in the sale) the bolts/nuts on it came off stupidly easy and I don't think they even needed the PlusGas I put on them, so that was something handy.

[sierraman]

Ill take some more pictures when I’ve finished work. 

[andy29]

Sorry Sierraman, not been able to look at the exhaust manifold for a few days anyway. I'll get back in there when I get a chance...

Well I almost organised a pre-mot but somehow completely failed to get across what I want them to do - they were trying to be helpful - I guess I'll be more direct and just ask them to give me a quote for any welding they think is needed to get it through an MOT.

Or maybe just say sod it and wait for the MOT in mid December when the old one's about to run out, and get the official verdict? Fully expecting to have it off the road for a while when it runs out anyway unless I'm incredibly lucky with it. It was only really because I'd like to get on with it and it would be better to know before I  spend money on a jack, stands etc.

Quite happy for this to become a bit of a project. Only want that welding decided on before the MOT expires so I can get it done while I can still drive it.

My god the amount of HubNut, Furious Driving and a bunch of others I've watched, times I've read the Haynes manual, it's about time I did something. And oh boy what shite I would go after if I knew how to do enough. I know this isn't a help forum for dummies so I hope I didn't shit up this thread too much.

[loserone]

That' exactly what this Stupid Question Amnesty thread is for, I'd have thought?

[catsinthewelder]

@andy29

A big part of being able to weld up a car is having somewhere to work.  If you can find a spacious garage with electricity it will be a hell of a lot easier than working on muddy grass in the rain and wind or having to be careful not to give the neighbours kids arc eye.

[andy29]

18 hours ago, loserone said:

That' exactly what this Stupid Question Amnesty thread is for, I'd have thought?

Fair enough 😀

17 hours ago, catsinthewelder said:

@andy29

A big part of being able to weld up a car is having somewhere to work.  If you can find a spacious garage with electricity it will be a hell of a lot easier than working on muddy grass in the rain and wind or having to be careful not to give the neighbours kids arc eye.

Uhhhhh yeah that might be the awkward part. Well I have a concrete driveway... enough room for me and a machine though. Did wonder about needing to be careful with other people around 😬

Does what the guy does in this video resemble a good job? Because I know some people who make videos are a bit questionable. Would probably need to look out for a used machine to be honest but it's already looking a little less impossible...

[Tickman]

3 hours ago, andy29 said:

Fair enough 😀

Uhhhhh yeah that might be the awkward part. Well I have a concrete driveway... enough room for me and a machine though. Did wonder about needing to be careful with other people around 😬

Does what the guy does in this video resemble a good job? Because I know some people who make videos are a bit questionable. Would probably need to look out for a used machine to be honest but it's already looking a little less impossible...

The video isn't bad at all really.

Second hand machines can be hit and miss and you do get what you pay for.

[juular]

On 10/20/2020 at 2:12 PM, andy29 said:

And the difference in cost between paying someone to do it vs being able to do it yourself, in your spare time, with equipment you've already invested in is going to become very big very quickly isn't it (unless the supplies for it are expensive, I wouldn't know). .

It doesn't need to be that expensive to run.

The main outlay is the welder and gas bottle. A cheap machine is totally fine but it will make the learning curve a bit steeper as you won't really be able to get the perfect setup (the adjustments on cheap welders are quite coarse) and you won't know how much of the difficulty is down to yourself or down to the machine. A second hand well regarded machine is an ok idea but if you get one with knackered wire feed and liner and have to go out and buy a regulator, wire and tips you might be approaching the price of a new one with all that stuff included.

PPE is no more than a helmet and gloves. Aldi are currently selling dirt cheap helmets and sometimes have gloves too. They don't need to be expensive.

You'll need a grinder. I've been using a £20 Aldi one for years and it came with a big pack of discs.

The gas can be a bit of a difficult one to swallow initially as the best weld will come from something like argon mix and you ideally want to pay a refundable deposit on a big bottle like you'd do on a calor gas bottle.

The little disposable bottles work out very expensive and hardly last. The big bottle gas itself will last a long time and is not that expensive to get topped up. A lot of people use CO2 from fire extinguishers or pub gas which you can sometimes get for free. It might make the welding a bit more hit and miss than a nice bottle of argon / co2 but if cost is a problem then it's a cheap way in. 

You can go gasless, then you can weld in the wind outside but the learning curve is steeper again and the welds can be messy. You might get hacked off with that in no time.

A reel of wire lasts for ages. Steel itself is cheap if you use the right places. B and Q and Wickes etc sell overpriced shite. A stockholder will sell you a 2m x 1m x 1.2mm sheet for under £50 and it will go on forever. I used a big offcut from that to start practicing and used the rest to make repair panels, water tanks and gas locker for my campervan, camper bed brackets, hinges, still have lots left over. Some metal fab places give away offcuts for nothing, just need to make sure it's not galvanised or stainless.

Other consumables like cutting discs, flap wheels etc are only a couple of quid each.

The ongoing costs are really very small once you get over the initial hump.

[cort1977]

Thanks for writing that, very useful.

[andy29]

On 10/29/2020 at 6:52 AM, Tickman said:

The video isn't bad at all really.

Second hand machines can be hit and miss and you do get what you pay for.

 

On 10/29/2020 at 12:37 PM, juular said:

It doesn't need to be that expensive to run.

The main outlay is the welder and gas bottle. A cheap machine is totally fine but it will make the learning curve a bit steeper as you won't really be able to get the perfect setup (the adjustments on cheap welders are quite coarse) and you won't know how much of the difficulty is down to yourself or down to the machine. A second hand well regarded machine is an ok idea but if you get one with knackered wire feed and liner and have to go out and buy a regulator, wire and tips you might be approaching the price of a new one with all that stuff included.

PPE is no more than a helmet and gloves. Aldi are currently selling dirt cheap helmets and sometimes have gloves too. They don't need to be expensive.

You'll need a grinder. I've been using a £20 Aldi one for years and it came with a big pack of discs.

The gas can be a bit of a difficult one to swallow initially as the best weld will come from something like argon mix and you ideally want to pay a refundable deposit on a big bottle like you'd do on a calor gas bottle.

The little disposable bottles work out very expensive and hardly last. The big bottle gas itself will last a long time and is not that expensive to get topped up. A lot of people use CO2 from fire extinguishers or pub gas which you can sometimes get for free. It might make the welding a bit more hit and miss than a nice bottle of argon / co2 but if cost is a problem then it's a cheap way in. 

You can go gasless, then you can weld in the wind outside but the learning curve is steeper again and the welds can be messy. You might get hacked off with that in no time.

A reel of wire lasts for ages. Steel itself is cheap if you use the right places. B and Q and Wickes etc sell overpriced shite. A stockholder will sell you a 2m x 1m x 1.2mm sheet for under £50 and it will go on forever. I used a big offcut from that to start practicing and used the rest to make repair panels, water tanks and gas locker for my campervan, camper bed brackets, hinges, still have lots left over. Some metal fab places give away offcuts for nothing, just need to make sure it's not galvanised or stainless.

Other consumables like cutting discs, flap wheels etc are only a couple of quid each.

The ongoing costs are really very small once you get over the initial hump.

Glad the video's a good one, it seemed pretty in depth and clear to me, but I wouldn't have even known about the positioning of the replacement metal so I wouldn't have had a clue! I wouldn't rely on a single person's videos anyway.

Thank you for writing that out Juular. It'll be so useful to get me started. I would not expect to look for welding equipment at Aldi so that's handy to know. Definitely would need to have a play on some metal first, not surprised B&Q/Wickes are like that for buying the metal, I'll need to find out what places are even around me.

Such a useful and money saving skill to have.

[Tenmil Socket]

I bought a gazebo and the metal frame is very flimsy. Therefore I’ve bought some timber to make a new square/cube frame. 
What’s the best way to construct/fasten in the corners? There’s going to be 3 pieces joining in each corner so I need to avoid screws hitting each other. 

[sierraman]

21 minutes ago, Tenmil Socket said:

I bought a gazebo and the metal frame is very flimsy. Therefore I’ve bought some timber to make a new square/cube frame. 
What’s the best way to construct/fasten in the corners? There’s going to be 3 pieces joining in each corner so I need to avoid screws hitting each other. 

Corner blocks

[Tenmil Socket]

2 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Corner blocks

What’s this?

[sierraman]

You use them to make furniture. They’re like plastic blocks you screw through. Thinking on you could just cut a halving joint?