project 1980 Austin Princess

[PhilA]

Ooh, that is bringing back memories of a decade ago.

Get yourself some valves, fling 'em in, whap a new belt on, bolt it all back together and job's a good'un.

 

You didn't bust any off, all you did was merrily bend the heads of the poppets. It's likely not even done any harm to the guides and so long as the cam bearing carriers are stout enough to tolerate it, a new set of valves will get that going again with no other real worries.

 

While a punch in the gut, it could have been much worse. Chalk it up to experience.

 

--Phil

[lexi]

That was bad luck really.  Once you do the house move and have your fill of that, I think you will be keen to get back on it.

[vulgalour]

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

[barefoot]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

 I don't know how anyone has the patience.

Are you on the correct forum?

[Tadhg Tiogar]

26 minutes ago, vulgalour said:

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

Sounds like ye're ready for a CX....

[ETCHY]

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

Really sorry to hear it's gone tits up, hope it gets sorted ok. It will be worth it in the end.

Best of luck

[richardthestag]

16 hours ago, ETCHY said:

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

[Asimo]

It is easy to forget, because of their familiarity and apparent simplicity, that car engines are an example of precision engineering. Sometimes exactly what matters on re-assembly is lost between the rebuild and the original assembly line procedure. I haven't ever seen an O-series workshop repair manual, but I would be surprised if the presence of the gasket is mentioned in it as being critical. The instruction will simply be to fit a new gasket.

Relying on the thickness of a paper gasket to define one direction of camshaft end float is an example of good production engineering - a gasket which is required anyway also does for free another job. In any design office that is a win.

Obviously it is infuriating when one gets caught out by this sort of subtlety, but it shouldn't be seen as a design fault.

[PhilA]

On 12/3/2019 at 10:34 AM, vulgalour said:

Alfa Romeo Syndrome.  When it's working it's a joy (to me), when it's not it's horrid.  Should've really called it Mathilda.

See, this is where I was thinking about what people said, making comparisons to the way the engine on the Renault is built- and then to the general design ethos that has been very pervasive over here.

What you experienced there does show just how fine the design tolerances are on that engine. For a paper gasket to be an engineered thickness is a bit of a mind-boggle though mostly because there is so much to go wrong if it's not done just right (wrong thickness gasket, no gasket, over-tightened and crushed gasket), and as you saw with the helicoil that has been tightened by a gorilla at some point in its' history. So, I'd wager the correct type of gasket is very solid and possibly rubberized so as not to crush when it's tightened in order to keep the correct shim thickness. It also means once it gets to be a few years old it'll likely leak like a sieve, particularly if it's undone and reused.

Thus, it's not something that comes to mind- it's Unusual Engineering. Normally, the gasket should crush slightly so nipping the bolts up just a bit can cure a chronic leak, and any kind of engineering tolerance is fixed by a non-crushable item like a metal shim. Certainly if there was a foil-metal shim in there you'd expect things to bind up if it was left out.

That's what I mean by "Unusual Engineering". It's a clever and well-executed design when everything's fresh out of the factory and undisturbed but once it's been apart a few times things begin to show problems. It also assumes the gaskets are available.

Engineering like that here has never really been accepted- if something as simple as a paper gasket can render an engine unusable then the design is wrong. There's not much side-of-the-road get-you-home built in. Compare that to the Buick 3.8 V6. It's perhaps not as refined as your engine but factors such as expansion, wear and general abuse and neglect were factored into the way it was made. It'll run with no oil, no coolant, with a rod having made a hole in the crankcase running on 4. It is the utter antithesis of Alfa Romeo syndrome. You really do need to factor what your typical Alf would make of the design, standing in his grubby overalls, pipe in mouth, tutting over "modern nonsense".

 

Repair it, let it sit.. whichever. The GTA is the same. When it's running it is a really very good little car. Unfortunately it likes to break.

 

--Phil

[ETCHY]

7 hours ago, richardthestag said:

are you sure you are on the right forum?

These scenarios are far more common than you would apparently believe. Lets stop the "Top Gear - it's British therefore must be crap" bollocks eh

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

[richardthestag]

15 minutes ago, ETCHY said:

I actually like BL cars (see several previous posts), I also hate Top Gear (think i've posted about that too).

At no point have I ever said it's British  therefore must be crap as I don't believe it. It was a lighthearted quip. as I know only too well that this sort of stuff happens often.

So why don't you get your facts straight, get a sense of humour & cut it out with the unpleasant & inaccurate bollocks eh ?

let me quote your unpleasant and inaccurate bollocks again

Quote

You do have to wonder about what kind of fuckwitt manufacturer designs something whereby the thickness of a paper gasket stands between all ok & catastrophe.... Hang on it's BL so that's cleared that up !

when you get to the bottom of the hole do stop digging ?

 

p.s. That ^ was my sense of humour

[ETCHY]

For the record my dad worked at Leyland (admittedly the Truck & Bus side) for 25 years, so the chances of me thinking Leyland & anything British is crap, are quite slim ?

[vulgalour]

Ladies, please.  It's the internet, let's not fight over nothing at all and enjoy the slightly miserable but amazingly joyous experience that is BL ownership and care.

[High Jetter]

IIRC you were having a problem sourcing parts at one time down in Mucking Fental, and I wonder if you have a genuine, period parts catalogue for the wedge? I can have a look and see if I have one if not, though most of the ones I have are Jag/Rover/Triumph but I know there are a few Austin Rover ones too. They're a bit* buried so it might take a little while to ferret one out.

[captain_70s]

2 hours ago, vulgalour said:

Ladies, please.  It's the internet, let's not fight over nothing at all 

Uuuuh. Is that not the sole purpose of communication via the internet?

[Cavcraft]

Hey, Vulg, just browsing Facebook and this has popped up for sale...

 

 

It's in an LDV so guessing it's an 'O' series. It's a 2.0 pez, no idea if it's any good (at all, or for you) but can try and find out if you like?

[jonathan_dyane]

Good spot but alas it ain’t an O series, too new I suspect.

Ford twin cam maybe?

[vulgalour]

 @High Jetter I don't have a parts catalogue, if you do find one please do drop me a message, I'd certainly be interested in acquiring one.

I'd agree on that LDV engine being a Ford lump.  As far as I'm aware, the Freight Rover version of the Sherpa was the last to use the O-Series and it was all Peugeot and Ford by the time you got to LDV era, I'm sure Wikipedia has full info on it, I'm going off info soaked up when actively looking for a Sherpa truck a few years ago purely because they had an engine I knew in them.  Opinions differed on if the O series in the Sherpa really was a lower compression version of that fitted in the cars, since the same was also put in things like Marina vans.  I won't really know what I'm doing engine wise until after the house move, I've decided it's best to hang fire until I've pulled the existing engine apart a bit more to find out exactly what is and isn't damaged before deciding on a course of action.  I probably just need to get a new head gasket set, new timing belt, and either new valves or the valves from my spare head.  Then reshim the valve train and bolt it all back together and we should be good... unless it's done bottom end damage, which is something I need to investigate.  Ironically, I did used to have a bottom end from that orange car I broke a few years ago and only let it go because I couldn't move house with it at the time, I recall somebody bought it for £notalot, just not who.  Thanks for keeping an eye out anyway, it's useful having folks looking in places I don't go.

[vulgalour]

I have done the last jobs I can on the Princess before the move now.  I've put it back on the old wheels and tyres to save my new ones getting damaged from the car being sat around doing nothing for a while, this will allow the car to be rolled about until I can redo the engine.  In addition, the rotten orange door has been removed and the hastily resprayed and reassembled original door that I'd repaired has been fitted.  The fit on this door is actually pretty good and the repair really just needs the bottom edge dressing a little more to sharpen up the fold before filler and proper paint goes on, so I'm moderately happy with that.  The window winder mechanism is stiff, I'm not sure if it's the mechanism itself or if something is misaligned, but since the intention was just to get as many parts back on the car so they didn't go missing, and to get the car weather tight, it's not a problem for now. Happily, what it does mean is I don't have to take a rotten door to the new house with me so it's one less big item to find a home for.

 

Unfortunately it has rather highlighted the shortcomings in the driver's door repair which doesn't align on the trailing corner at all well.  Never mind, that was the first door I ever repaired and now that it's not full of rot it will be easy to correct once I'm set up in the new place.  It'll be a little while before the Princess is worked on again, Mike's going to look after her for a bit while I sort things out at the other end so I can afford transportation and organise the new garage so there's somewhere dry and secure to put the car.

[trigger]

I've just seen this one Facebook.



Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

[vulgalour]

haha!  I've not long had a phonecall to say it's arriving very soon.  I'll let him know he's got a light out on the truck.

[vulgalour]

Hooray it's here!

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Just so you know, it's journey was monitered by a crack team of shite surveillance operatives, here's a Cavcraft quality photograph I took on the M1 near J13 earlier. Might be worth explaining to the driver how average speed cameras work too...

 

[Parky]

Any of this usable?
 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MAESTRO-MONTEGO-2LTR-O-SERIES-EFI-ENGINE/233204562717?hash=item364c133b1d:g:W6IAAOSwKTBZcGpf

[PhilA]

12 minutes ago, NorfolkNWeigh said:

Might be worth explaining to the driver how average speed cameras work too...

Also keep a copy of the photo for when your plate was also snapped doing 85 in a 60 on the back of the truck and you have to present it to the court and explain how their robotic cameras can't tell the difference.

 

Phil

[vulgalour]

Tucked up safe and sound at home.  @Wingz123 was top notch delivering the Princess, if you need stuff shifting, I highly recommend him.  A big old thank you for him doing the big pile of driving today for a very reasonable fee.  Absolutely trouble-free from start to finish and a lovely bloke to boot.  Because of house stuff I'm not sure exactly when I'll be getting stuck in on the Princess, though we have a tentative plan outlined for March with my friend over in Lincolnshire and the only thing I currently need to find is my valve spring compressor now that the new gasket set has arrived so I can build the head again.  I'm really happy to have the Princess at my new home, it hasn't been the same the past few weeks without it about and I have missed it very much.

[danthecapriman]

Glad you’ve got it back with you again.

I felt the same when my Capri was away having it’s paint & bodywork done. I hated not having it with me! It’s weird how a lump of old metal means so much to you that you hate not having it with you!

[vulgalour]

We're closing in on the eight year ownership anniversary now, and it's been through a lot of house moves with me.  It's become more than the sum of its parts.

@Parky unfortunately nothing really interchanges on that engine and the one in the Princess, which is a shame because sometimes I think fuel injection would be kinda neat.

[MikeKnight]

Glad to see it arrived safe and sound!

I'm really happy we put it in the garage backwards, it made loading it an absolute doddle.

[vulgalour]

Today I got the Princess emptied out of the spares that were in it and found my valve spring compressor in a garage box.  I've a suspicion I've the wrong head type on the compressor for the Princess head though, I'll find out when I have time to try it out.  The Princess does look to be slightly shorter than the BX so it will fit in the garage a bit easier that way, unfortunately it's also a bit wider and that means I'd really struggle to get in and out of the car once it was in the garage. Car port building it is then.

After a good inspection of the things I put back together loosely I can confirm that nothing appears to be missing under the bonnet and it shouldn't be too much work to get everything apart that I need to when I get into it.