Sump plug cockup

[Pillock]

Got the spanners out and serviced the Leon this morning, but I think I might have done more harm than good. Tightened the sump plug back up, all good, refilled with all. Finishing up and I went to double-check the sump plug and it feels like I've stripped the thread I've resisted the urge to fiddle too much as it appears to be oiltight - nothing's gushing anyway but I suspect I may have introduced a little bit of a leak.

 

Options as I see them:

 

Take it to a garage and get bummed

Take the plug back out and apply something like chemical metal to the threads, and hope it makes a new thread

Do nothing, keep checking oil level and top up when needed.

 

I guess my fear with the chemical metal / other sealant is that I'll never get the plug back out when I change the oil next (unless I use one of those smart-looking dipstick vacuum pump jobbers). And my fear with option C is that it'll just leak far too quickly and I'll loose all the oil one day. Anyone have any idea what a garage could do for me? Retap and larger plug?

[dollywobbler]

Tricky. Tempting to leave it and hope for the best - at least until the oil has done some mileage - but if it goes, you're back in engine change territory again. S'pose you can always drain and refill using the same oil. I'd opt for a Helicoil or similar myself I think, or replace the entire sump if that's an option?

[outlaw118]

Allow me to be the first to say.....

"Can you hammer a larger plug over it?"

 

As you were....

[John F]

Allow me to be the first to say.....

"Can you hammer a larger plug over it?"

 

As you were....

 

[John F]

Got the spanners out and serviced the Leon this morning, but I think I might have done more harm than good. Tightened the sump plug back up, all good, refilled with all. Finishing up and I went to double-check the sump plug and it feels like I've stripped the thread I've resisted the urge to fiddle too much as it appears to be oiltight - nothing's gushing anyway but I suspect I may have introduced a little bit of a leak.

 

Options as I see them:

 

Take it to a garage and get bummed

Take the plug back out and apply something like chemical metal to the threads, and hope it makes a new thread

Do nothing, keep checking oil level and top up when needed.

 

I guess my fear with the chemical metal / other sealant is that I'll never get the plug back out when I change the oil next (unless I use one of those smart-looking dipstick vacuum pump jobbers). And my fear with option C is that it'll just leak far too quickly and I'll loose all the oil one day. Anyone have any idea what a garage could do for me? Retap and larger plug?

 

One other option is to try to find a replacement sump at a breakers, then fit it next time you do an oil change.

[Richard]

A decent old-school garage should be able to sort that out in minutes, either with a helicoil or larger sump plug. They will have had to deal with the same problem themselves if they do oil changes daily. I don't think there's a DIY solution really, except to do what the garage would do. Your nice new oil can be reused.

 

I wouldn't run it 'as is' for much more than the running around it takes to get it sorted. I don't suppose the sump from the dead engine is still around?

[Espacetic]

As a temp measure you can wrap some PTFE tape around the plug, then refit being careful not to overtighten.

[HBR]

As a temp measure you can wrap some PTFE tape around the plug, then refit being careful not to overtighten.

 

I'd go for this too as a short term fix at least.

While the bung is back out you can have a look to see what's really gone on & assuming you have stripped the threads see if there's plenty metal around the hole to stand being tapped to a bigger size, assuming there is you can then plan the job & put the car back on the road using the thread tape on the bung till you get it all together. It'll be a standard thread & you'll just need to find a bung from something a little touch bigger & a tap to suit, say it's an M14 thread it could probably be tapped to M16. You'll need to know the thread pitch too. If you measure the size of the stripped hole & find the tapping drill size on this chart http://www.metrication.com/engineering/threads.htm that is closest & tap to that size. If nothing common has a bung that thread size then it'd be possible to make one froma bolt threaded right to the head. All can be done with the sump in-situ, grease the threads on the tap & it will catch 90% of the swarf, you can get much what it doesnt catch in the grease once the tap is back out with a little screwdriver.

 

Alternativly a mate clattered the alloy sump on his Octavia (for the second time the tit!) & it was beyond welding, a new sump was found to be very reasonable even to the point of questioning whether it was worth welding it the first time he did it! This was on a petrol either a 1.8 or 2.0, with it being VAG group like the Leon you may be fortunate

 

 

Having looked at the chart I've linked to it aint all that comprehensive, this one has more: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/metri ... d_777.html

[gdhaydock]

Had a 2000 Passat TDI (probably same engine as yours), where I cracked the sump whilst in on Holiday in Ireland. Being miles away from home, I took it to the main stealer where they charged about 250 euros to supply and fit a sump.

 

The sump itself was only about 40 euros, but quite a lot of labour hours as a fair few components had to come off to change it, including one of the bottom arms and an engine mount IIRC. From memory the sump was made of cast aluminium and had about the thickness of an egg shell, so welding would have been a non starter.

[DSdriver]

In a sensible world the thread on the plug would be of a material that would fail before the thread in the sump. In this unlikely scenario it would just be a case of replacing the sump plug.

[Pillock]

"In a sensible world"..... yeah right, these are cars we're talking about!!

Might be worth sourcing a new plug first though and giving it a whirl but I do know the sump is ally so I bet I know which component has failed.

 

It's not dripped at all today, so I know it's at least OK till I can phone some garages next week. Just going to check oil level and/or road under car for every journey I think short-term. PTFE tape was an option in my head but I didn't know if oil/heat broke that stuff down, and if it broke down whether it was bad for engines. I know most of it will be trapped in the threads but you never know.

 

Annoyingly I was going to keep the sump from when I swapped engines, as original engine had a sump fitted with an oil level sensor and this one doesn't so the oil level warning flashes for a few seconds every time I start the engine. I looked at how to get it off the old engine, decided it was too much hassle (I think there were some bolts behind the bottom pulley) and let it all go for scrap. Typical. Only went about 8 weeks ago too.

[HillmanImp]

Can you not just try re threading it without helicoiling it? Worth a punt shirley. What size is it?

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Plug-Thread-Repair-Chasers-10mm-12mm-14mm-18mm-/280798172015

[myglaren]

Had a similar problem with my son's GTi when attempting to service it.

The plug didn't unscrew nicely at all, stiff bits then loose bits.

Persevered anyway but on replacing it it was easy to see the threads were buggered.

 

The guy that we rely on when it all goes horribly wrong came round - he was coming anyway to fit a new spring on the front suspension that had collapsed.

He went off and bought a set of taps & dies, rethreaded the drain and put a new bung in.

 

Only took him an hour and a half to do that and change the spring, at the roadside.

 

He only charged £100 including parts and oil and he spent a couple of hours running around trying to get a spring. The taps & dies cost him more than he charged.

[cobblers]

If it's the engine I think it is, new sumps are only about £35 from GSF because every bugger strips them. My mate whos a MASTER OF THE VAG says about 1 in 10 that come to him have a sump plug just holding on for dear life. He's got a proper kit for helicoiling them, but he doesn't use it a lot on these engines because it takes him just as long to piss about helicoiling it, and the sump usually weeps a tiny bit from then on, and the helicoil bit itself is about 9 quid anyway. He'll probably change one of these sumps every week.

[trigger]

Your meant to change the sump plug and washer everytime you change the oil, not reuse the old one, you might just find it's olda plug with a spread washer, You'll need to replace it with a new one.

 

Of course if it was a new one that you fitted then ignore this post!

[Mr Lobster]

I feel your pain. Had the same issue on my Toledo. Or at least the garage did when they serviced it. They fitted a helicoil thing as new sumps were on back order from SEAT at the time. Does weep a tiny bit so might get a new sump on it at some point i s'pose

[Morgan84]

Vw group alloy sump threads are very easily pulled if pulled too much,but provided its not leaking ( slight dampness isn't a problem really ),best thing to do is leave it alone,and worry about it next oil change,when you can then either try the ptfe tape to help it bite in tight again,or then consider a Helicoil option.I used to look after a Golf with a pulled sump,and it was never a problem.

[AeroNautiCal]

What I used to do for guys that very seriously damaged their drain plug housing (which was invariably the crankcase) was to drain the oil, thoroughly clean ALL traces of oil (brake cleaner worked well) and... Clean the sump plug, then drill and tap it for the largest diameter bolt that will fit, with washer, then refit the original, tapped sump plug using Metal Set or the permanent compound of your choice, ensuring that as much of the original sump plug as possible is adhered to the sump pan.

 

Leave it to set... Thoroughly!

 

Then fit your new, smaller 'sump plug/bolt', after magnetizing it.

 

With this method I managed to keep motorcycles on the road for guys that couldn't afford to have 'em fixed using conventional techniques or where the nature and extent of the damage ruled out inserts.

[OwdChina]

Modern sumps are a pain if you strip the thread. There is not enough land to helicoil. Bodging with ptfe tape will not work. Liquid metal or thread sealant is a short term fix. The sump will need to come off and taken to an engineering workshop to have the plug location replaced. Cut the old one out with a core drill or hole saw and then tig weld a replacement in, which can be any thread size you want.............done loads of em. The hardest part is removing and refiting the sump.

[Pillock]

Your meant to change the sump plug and washer everytime you change the oil, not reuse the old one, you might just find it's olda plug with a spread washer, You'll need to replace it with a new one.

 

Of course if it was a new one that you fitted then ignore this post!

 

 

It didn't appear to be a spread washer - you mean a split, slightly offset one? Like a locking washer?

To be honest I'm now confused about whether it's the thread that stops the oil pouring out, or the washer and the thread just tightens the washer against the plug/sump. But no, I have to admit I reused the plug, like I do every single time. Oooops. Although I never keep a car long enough to service it more than once usually!

 

Latest news is that it had "marked it's spot" overnight so I went to drop the new oil and take a look at the thread, but for shits and giggles thought I'd try to tighten it more - heck, if it needs retapping and an oversize plug then I might as well make a proper job of it! It span a couple of times with "some" resistance then seemed to tighten more. I've stopped at that point, oil is still in the car so I've dropped the car back a foot to see if it continues to leak, I've wiped the sump clean so any new markings are definitely a leaky plug. With Trigger's knowledge now seeping into my brain, if that still leaks I'll buy a litre of oil, and a new plug and washer - quickly swap them over and top up anything spilt. If that then fails, it's tapping time.

 

The sumps themselves are £88 from Euro, not tried GSF as they've changed their website to a faffy registration system.

[dieselnutjob]

it's the washer that makes the final seal

oil will work it's way past the threads even if the threads are healthy, though it would only be a drip

the worst risk would be if the threads are so damaged that the plug falls out completely and you loose the entire sump full whilst driving along; extremely unlikely to happen though I should think

[DSdriver]

Off topic info that may be useful to some:

Flat copper washers on older sump plugs should be annealed if being reused. Just heat them up till they glow red and plunge into cold water. This process softens the copper.