Car design quirks that do/did your head in

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, GeordieInExile said:

This. 

The rear door shape could follow the line of the wheelarch and it would all look far more cohesive but for some reason they decided to have that confused mess of lines instead. 

Crikey, never twigged that before. How lousy! I'm always going to be drawn to that now whenever I see one 😅

[Garythesnail]

Colleagues at work in the late 80s and early nineties found Ford's audio system (Escort, Orion and Sierra) a pain as the rotary knob for the volume could be turned up to max vol when the vehicle was off without the keys in, giving a surprise when they jumped in at the end of the shift.

I, however, found it to be highly amusing when the old codgers jumped out of their skin before effing and blinding. Shouldn't have let their windows wound down.

[MiniMinorMk3]

I bet this would do a lot of readers heads in.

Lets start under the bonnet with the metal brake and clutch cylinders that you need to remove the caps to see the levels. Or maybe the washer bottle that you have to take out so you need to fill it. Then there's the non-existent expansion tank so you need to take the rad cap off (only when cold) to check the level. Then there's the points that need checking, the valves that need checking, the carb that need adjusting, not to mention all the grease nipples that need fondling every week or so.

Now for the dash, which switch is the lights and which the wipers. Look where the washer plunger is to the left. To turn the heater fan on you have to reach underneath the heater box for the switch with only one speed setting.

Look at the daft gear lever that doesn't go backwards and forwards like a conventional one, but more like up and down. Oh, and there's no synchromesh in first so you have to come to a dead stop before selecting it. You can just about see the high beam switch on the floor ahead of the gear lever, no fancy flashers on a stalk here, which leads to the other problem of letting truck drivers know that they have passed you on the motorway. One has to reach the headlamp switch, it's teh one on teh far left, and switch it up and down. Oh, and did I mention that the wipers do not self park, so you have time the witch off right to avoid leaving the wipers half way up the screen. Also the wipers only have one speed, no fast or intermittent here. Have you spotted the indicator stalk that has a warning flasher in the end, also no fancy self cancel, and most of teh time the warning lamp is obscured by your hand holding the wheel.

No fancy up and down windows either, just a couple of sliding pains, in both senses, for ventilation.

Check out the internal door release, yes it's that black cord that's hanging down. It's a bit of a pain to always have to explain to new passengers that it is not there to help close the door. If you do try to close the door using the cable it does not close, as the latch will not latch. Also spotted the black button on the floor, that's the starter switch.

And did everyone notice the lack of cup holders. Well Mr Issigonis designed the doors with pockets that could hold bottles of gin, so swings and roundabouts.

You young 'uns don't know you're born!

 

[grogee]

6 hours ago, leakingstrut said:

I don’t drive on the road without a seatbelt, but I often have bag on the passenger seat which sets it off, and I’m not going to bother wearing one when I’m doing 15mph along a gravel track and I’ve got a million gates to open and shut. Tempted to see if I can unplug the belt sensor and bridge it.

Buckle the belt first then sit on the seat. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

I was, as a young lad, quite car sick and filled up one of those Mini door pockets - my older cousin was impressed* with the capacity.

Here's mine. TLDR : Most of these I reckon you quickly learn to live with after the initial panic/OMG moment - but I simply cannot get on with the 'no click' 3 -5 indicator flash when you breath on the stalk.

Mostly I echo a lot of the above:
Boxer/Ducato - no cup holders, thick A pillars further thickened by mahoosive internal trim so they block your view badly at junctions. Bit like flying a Heinkel 111 I reckon.
The aforementioned handbrake up the jacksie is indicative of a combination of seat squab failure and handbrake cable stretch. Starts at 6,000 miles. Ask my ass how I know
Twitchy stalk - if you go to dip the lights and are slightly off centre it fires the indicators on the wanky  3- 5 flashes that many cars now have.
You cannot cancel that as you just get another 3 -5 in the other direction. 
Airbag ECU is on the floor near the driver's left foot. Never wash one out after working on site.

Bini (most early stuff - dunno about later models) - 'retro' switch layout - finding fog lights and window switches is bonkers in the dark. Ditto the wanky 'no click' 3 -5 flash indicator stalk bollocks.
Door windows on these drop about 10 - 15mm when you open the door. When you shut the door they then close the final 15mm or so automagically. If the battery is disconnected they still drop but never go back up. Re-open the door - they drop again. You can build up a sizeable gap if you are clever whilst working on one with the battery disconnected.
It has cupholders (yaaay!) Located directly over one of the body ECUs - smart* design.
Another body ECU on the side of the car by driver's right foot - right where water trickles if you drive with the window open on a wet day (see also  above mention of self-dropping windows).
R55 - no temp gauge, I'd like one as my C15 didn't have one and the engine was already dying/ I was pulling over before the warning light came on.

All makes that have 'unusual' warning light combos or use.
Previously mentioned - blue coolant light. WTF? Gimme a gauge. Flashing red oil light on some pugs - waaah! Pull over we're going to die. Nope - just needs the oil changing? EML that comes on for a non-serious fault.
Early TPMS that run off the ABS - don't do nuffink as the tyre gradually deflates. When you blow it back up THEN it illuminates AFTER a short distance and has to be reset. That put my wife into a right panic once.

Ser 2a Land Rover - above mentioned steel reservoirs - grrrrreat.
Floor mounted headlight dip switch by clutch - you pretty soon learn to dip them in advance.

Triumph Herald - pull out choke. Pull out heater controller.  Same size knobs. No dash illumination. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Rusty Pelican]

1 hour ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I bet this would do a lot of readers heads in.

Lets start under the bonnet with the metal brake and clutch cylinders that you need to remove the caps to see the levels. Or maybe the washer bottle that you have to take out so you need to fill it. Then there's the non-existent expansion tank so you need to take the rad cap off (only when cold) to check the level. Then there's the points that need checking, the valves that need checking, the carb that need adjusting, not to mention all the grease nipples that need fondling every week or so.

Now for the dash, which switch is the lights and which the wipers. Look where the washer plunger is to the left. To turn the heater fan on you have to reach underneath the heater box for the switch with only one speed setting.

Look at the daft gear lever that doesn't go backwards and forwards like a conventional one, but more like up and down. Oh, and there's no synchromesh in first so you have to come to a dead stop before selecting it. You can just about see the high beam switch on the floor ahead of the gear lever, no fancy flashers on a stalk here, which leads to the other problem of letting truck drivers know that they have passed you on the motorway. One has to reach the headlamp switch, it's teh one on teh far left, and switch it up and down. Oh, and did I mention that the wipers do not self park, so you have time the witch off right to avoid leaving the wipers half way up the screen. Also the wipers only have one speed, no fast or intermittent here. Have you spotted the indicator stalk that has a warning flasher in the end, also no fancy self cancel, and most of teh time the warning lamp is obscured by your hand holding the wheel.

No fancy up and down windows either, just a couple of sliding pains, in both senses, for ventilation.

Check out the internal door release, yes it's that black cord that's hanging down. It's a bit of a pain to always have to explain to new passengers that it is not there to help close the door. If you do try to close the door using the cable it does not close, as the latch will not latch. Also spotted the black button on the floor, that's the starter switch.

And did everyone notice the lack of cup holders. Well Mr Issigonis designed the doors with pockets that could hold bottles of gin, so swings and roundabouts.

You young 'uns don't know you're born!

 

Had a 64 one the same colour _ ish and I agree , i also had a Sunbeam Stiletto - the Imp version of a Cooper Mini , so much better in every way that i sold the Mini and have had versions of Imps ever since 

[adw1977]

5 hours ago, Tenmil Socket said:

I understand it's a cost cutting exercise but cars with only one reverse light on one side. It messes with the symmetry.

e.g. 

Also means that if you're approaching from that car's right the reversing light is probably invisible.  Particularly dodgy when walking across a car park and have no clue the car is about to reverse out of a space.

[DavieW]

The current Toyota Corolla cruise control annoys me. The first press of the button operates the radar cruise. You have to hold the button for a couple of seconds to get the "normal" cruise control.  Once set, the radar setting goes up in 5mph increments but the normal cruise goes up in 1mph increments. 

The radio needs 2 taps on the screen to switch on depending g whether it was on when the ignition was switched off the last time. 

Also the bluetooth connection needs 2 taps to connect a phone. First option is the right hand button and confirmed by tapping the left hand one. 

Utter madness and I don't know what was going on in the designer/programmers head. 

[Richard_FM]

9 hours ago, SiC said:

Does it not have brake hold? 

You have to be careful with many autos that aren't slush as they will burn up clutches if not held with the foot brake. On many it's only the foot brake causes it to disengage the internal clutches and not the handbrake. 

Only an anti-roll back as far as I know, when I was discussing driving techniques with the salesman he didn't mention anything about not using the handbrake.

[willswitchengage]

Saab central mounted key holes.

And all the switches for the windows are down there too. For cars marketed as being super ergonomic, they are largely impossible to use without looking at them, especially in RHD versions.

I like having shift lock instead of steering lock though. That's its only plus point I can find.

[Mrcento]

11 hours ago, horriblemercedes said:

It feels like I'm the only person who has never had a problem with these. I can't say I like them more than the traditional type, I suppose they're neither better nor worse for me. Just a slightly different way 

 

If anything they're better because I've never known them to break, unlike traditional latch types that can and then you have to hold them in place 

You get used to them mega quick. Would still always prefer the normal setup, but the whole outrage over them to me seemed a bit OTT.

Speaking of Vauxhalls (and the Vec C that had these), another car that has the weird handbrake and armrest collision design flaw... but what annoyed me more in my Vec was how apocalyptically shit the handbrake lever itself felt. By a mile the cheapest, nastiest handbrake lever i've ever used in any car. Hard thin shiny plastic that felt like a toy. A bizarre oversight in a car that GM were clearly trying to at least feign trying to feel a little more upmarket. You'd think something like that drivers will be touching every time they drive would be a priority to not scream 'we've cut costs here' on.

[lesapandre]

20 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I bet this would do a lot of readers heads in.

Lets start under the bonnet with the metal brake and clutch cylinders that you need to remove the caps to see the levels. Or maybe the washer bottle that you have to take out so you need to fill it. Then there's the non-existent expansion tank so you need to take the rad cap off (only when cold) to check the level. Then there's the points that need checking, the valves that need checking, the carb that need adjusting, not to mention all the grease nipples that need fondling every week or so.

Now for the dash, which switch is the lights and which the wipers. Look where the washer plunger is to the left. To turn the heater fan on you have to reach underneath the heater box for the switch with only one speed setting.

Look at the daft gear lever that doesn't go backwards and forwards like a conventional one, but more like up and down. Oh, and there's no synchromesh in first so you have to come to a dead stop before selecting it. You can just about see the high beam switch on the floor ahead of the gear lever, no fancy flashers on a stalk here, which leads to the other problem of letting truck drivers know that they have passed you on the motorway. One has to reach the headlamp switch, it's teh one on teh far left, and switch it up and down. Oh, and did I mention that the wipers do not self park, so you have time the witch off right to avoid leaving the wipers half way up the screen. Also the wipers only have one speed, no fast or intermittent here. Have you spotted the indicator stalk that has a warning flasher in the end, also no fancy self cancel, and most of teh time the warning lamp is obscured by your hand holding the wheel.

No fancy up and down windows either, just a couple of sliding pains, in both senses, for ventilation.

Check out the internal door release, yes it's that black cord that's hanging down. It's a bit of a pain to always have to explain to new passengers that it is not there to help close the door. If you do try to close the door using the cable it does not close, as the latch will not latch. Also spotted the black button on the floor, that's the starter switch.

And did everyone notice the lack of cup holders. Well Mr Issigonis designed the doors with pockets that could hold bottles of gin, so swings and roundabouts.

You young 'uns don't know you're born!

 

Add in the 'tip-up' front seats with no locking - so in a very fast stop they tip-up forward. Also the rusting sub-frames, distributor on the front of the engine where it gets damp, teeeny-tiny boot, and zero crash protection. I also remember these as having weaving speedo needles - never sure how fast you were going and door latches that easily went out of alignment so doors became difficult to shut. Sliding window latches became difficult to operate as they aged. Just reaching the centre console switches with a seat belt on was a stretch.

The baked-bean tin reservoirs are a bit of a joke - they are also very small capacity. Once you have the top off you have to really peer in to check the level - but you can't because the bonnet is in the way.

But a hydraulic clutch is better than the retrograde cable -operation on the Maxi.[correction I mean the cable-operated gear selector]

And at least the brake reservoir is under the bonnet - on the previous Austin small car, the A35, it is under the floor on the driver's side - difficult to get to - check and easy to get dirt in. Oh and tiny capacity and only hydraulic front brakes...

No wonder the Ford Anglia and later the Escort were such a success...former sold over a million 1959-67.

(Also in the early days Mini generated very little profit for BMC as they were expensive to make and under-priced which contributed to their corporate failure in the 70's)

[lesapandre]

18 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

My driving instructor used to say to always put it on when stationary while in traffic in case someone runs into the back!  This will stop you shunting the car in front!

Since buying a Yaris Hybrid I've had to learn to remember to put the handbrake on tight to stop it creeping, it's that or putting it in neutral at every red light.

Yes the handbrake on in stopped traffic and leaving enough 'shunt-space' to vehicle in front is good defensive driving.

[Talbot]

9 hours ago, willswitchengage said:

Saab central mounted key holes.

And all the switches for the windows are down there too. For cars marketed as being super ergonomic, they are largely impossible to use without looking at them, especially in RHD versions.

I like having shift lock instead of steering lock though. That's its only plus point I can find.

This is a safety thing.  Not having a lock mechanism and keys exactly where your knee will impact in a crash means you're far less likely to end up being kneecapped in a shunt.  It's also good if you have a lot of keys on your keyring as they don't hang on the ignition key.  A great bit of design imo.

[lesapandre]

Citroen CX & GS have a conventional radio set horizontally between the front seats 🤔

[Tenmil Socket]

16 hours ago, MiniMinorMk3 said:

I bet this would do a lot of readers heads in.

Lets start under the bonnet with the metal brake and clutch cylinders that you need to remove the caps to see the levels. Or maybe the washer bottle that you have to take out so you need to fill it. Then there's the non-existent expansion tank so you need to take the rad cap off (only when cold) to check the level. Then there's the points that need checking, the valves that need checking, the carb that need adjusting, not to mention all the grease nipples that need fondling every week or so.

Now for the dash, which switch is the lights and which the wipers. Look where the washer plunger is to the left. To turn the heater fan on you have to reach underneath the heater box for the switch with only one speed setting.

Look at the daft gear lever that doesn't go backwards and forwards like a conventional one, but more like up and down. Oh, and there's no synchromesh in first so you have to come to a dead stop before selecting it. You can just about see the high beam switch on the floor ahead of the gear lever, no fancy flashers on a stalk here, which leads to the other problem of letting truck drivers know that they have passed you on the motorway. One has to reach the headlamp switch, it's teh one on teh far left, and switch it up and down. Oh, and did I mention that the wipers do not self park, so you have time the witch off right to avoid leaving the wipers half way up the screen. Also the wipers only have one speed, no fast or intermittent here. Have you spotted the indicator stalk that has a warning flasher in the end, also no fancy self cancel, and most of teh time the warning lamp is obscured by your hand holding the wheel.

No fancy up and down windows either, just a couple of sliding pains, in both senses, for ventilation.

Check out the internal door release, yes it's that black cord that's hanging down. It's a bit of a pain to always have to explain to new passengers that it is not there to help close the door. If you do try to close the door using the cable it does not close, as the latch will not latch. Also spotted the black button on the floor, that's the starter switch.

And did everyone notice the lack of cup holders. Well Mr Issigonis designed the doors with pockets that could hold bottles of gin, so swings and roundabouts.

You young 'uns don't know you're born!

 

That is one lovely looking Mini!

[Asimo]

2 hours ago, lesapandre said:

But a hydraulic clutch is better than the retrograde cable -operation on the Maxi.

Maxi has hydraulic clutch operation!

[Captain Mainwaring]

I would echo @EyesWeldedShut 's sentiments about early BINI interiors, my wife's Cooper has the fancy retro dash and while it looks nice it's certainly not the most user-friendly especially in the dark. The cup holders are in a bit of a crap position too, just underneath the central dash controls, so you're fine with a can of coke but buggered if you have a flask of coffee or awt like that.

Oh and cleaning it is a real pain in the arse as well!

[artdjones]

2 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Add in the 'tip-up' front seats with no locking - so in a very fast stop they tip-up forward. Also the rusting sub-frames, distributor on the front of the engine where it gets damp, teeeny-tiny boot, and zero crash protection. I also remember these as having weaving speedo needles - never sure how fast you were going and door latches that easily went out of alignment so doors became difficult to shut. Sliding window latches became difficult to operate as they aged. Just reaching the centre console switches with a seat belt on was a stretch.

The baked-bean tin reservoirs are a bit of a joke - they are also very small capacity. Once you have the top off you have to really peer in to check the level - but you can't because the bonnet is in the way.

But a hydraulic clutch is better than the retrograde cable -operation on the Maxi.

And at least the brake reservoir is under the bonnet - on the previous Austin small car, the A35, it is under the floor on the driver's side - difficult to get to - check and easy to get dirt in. Oh and tiny capacity and only hydraulic front brakes...

No wonder the Ford Anglia and later the Escort were such a success...former sold over a million 1959-67.

(Also in the early days Mini generated very little profit for BMC as they were expensive to make and under-priced which contributed to their corporate failure in the 70's)

When the Mini first came out it was fitted with a steel panel in the front wheel arch to catch any mud being flung backwards and upwards. Once they realised Minis were costing too much to make they deleted it, leaving a terrible mud trap, as the scuttle/windscreen/front wing joint was now totally unprotected.

[Noel Tidybeard]

21 hours ago, SiC said:

Does it not have brake hold? 

You have to be careful with many autos that aren't slush as they will burn up clutches if not held with the foot brake. On many it's only the foot brake causes it to disengage the internal clutches and not the handbrake. 

both foot & hand brake disengage clutch of honda i-shift

[horriblemercedes]

20 hours ago, GeordieInExile said:

This. 

The rear door shape could follow the line of the wheelarch and it would all look far more cohesive but for some reason they decided to have that confused mess of lines instead. 

Hadn't noticed, still probably won't when I see them around! I think they look crap but that detail wouldn't worry me 

[Urko]

The screenwash on that Mini would have been an aftermarket addition or an optional extra  - the originals weren't fitted with it as it wasn't a  legal requirement.

[lesapandre]

3 hours ago, Asimo said:

Maxi has hydraulic clutch operation!

Ta! Sorry it's the gear selector I mean then.

[Richard_FM]

4 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Citroen CX & GS have a conventional radio set horizontally between the front seats 🤔

I heard the GS needed a cylinder head removed to perform a simple piece of maintenance.

[lesapandre]

1 hour ago, Urko said:

The screenwash on that Mini would have been an aftermarket addition or an optional extra  - the originals weren't fitted with it as it wasn't a  legal requirement.

That's an interesting one. I think that the screen-washer set up was a retrospective Ministry MoT requirement that obliged it to all cars even if they were not fitted with it originally?

As soon as the Motorways emerged after '59 it really was a necessity for safe driving.

Seat belts were not interestingly given the same requirement.

Some MoT gurus may know?

[lesapandre]

13 minutes ago, Richard_FM said:

I heard the GS needed a cylinder head removed to perform a simple piece of maintenance.

The GS is one of those cars that has virtually disappeared off the roads in France - I can't even remember seeing one at a car show - thought certainly some must have passed into preservation. The two Citroens with a long life are the Traction Avant and the 2CV.

Thought the C15 is making a bid for immortality.

So I will add in - the shape of the Visa/C15 front screen is such that the instruments are reflected in the windscreen at night - and the single wiper leaves great chunks of the screen uncleared.

[bunglebus]

1 hour ago, lesapandre said:

That's an interesting one. I think that the screen-washer set up was a retrospective Ministry MoT requirement that obliged it to all cars even if they were not fitted with it originally?

Yes as far as I know that's the only legal requirement that's been applied retrospectively to all cars with a fixed windscreen - otherwise if it was legal when it was made, it's legal now, so red rear/clear front indicators, no seatbelts etc

[jonathan_dyane]

11 minutes ago, bunglebus said:

Yes as far as I know that's the only legal requirement that's been applied retrospectively to all cars with a fixed windscreen - otherwise if it was legal when it was made, it's legal now, so red rear/clear front indicators, no seatbelts etc

I think legislating against single rear lights and possibly single brake lights were applied retrospectively as with having only one headlamp able to dip and the other simply turning off when you dipped the lights 

[MiniMinorMk3]

3 hours ago, Urko said:

The screenwash on that Mini would have been an aftermarket addition or an optional extra  - the originals weren't fitted with it as it wasn't a  legal requirement.

The screen wash was optional equipment on basic models in 1959, but standard on the Delux.

By 1963 washers were standard across the range

[Urko]

3 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Ta! Sorry it's the gear selector I mean then.

Cable selection was replaced by rod change after the first 17 months - a cable change Maxi is a rare thing these days.  I had one in the late 70s - it wasn't that bad, but the later rod change was better.  ETA - the cable change was from the landcrab of course