What year was ‘peak car’?

[406V6]

For me it’s late 90s to early 2000s.

By then the rampant rusting of the 70s had been tamed.
Engines ran so much better with fuel injection and computer control. No more faffing with a choke and worrying if the car would start. It did. On the nose. Every time (*).
Most cars had ABS and airbags to improve safety.
Reasonable quality FM radios across the board.
Crash worthiness was much improved but cars weren’t all 2m wide (exaggeration but close).
Later cars (early 2000s on) have better diagnostics via OBD port
Before the ridiculous fad for leather seats. Who wants to sit on what feels like a sheet of plastic that gets baking hot in summer, cold in winter and makes farting noises as you move around.
Before the stupid fad for big wheels and tyres as thick as a sheet of paper.
Before ride comfort on mainstream cars degenerated (better handling innit).
When the windscreen pillars weren’t 6 inches thick and a danger to seeing other cars.
When 6 cylinder cars weren’t crucified by tax structures and could still deliver decent MPG.

 

[chris667]

I don't think this will be a thing in the future.

Cars have obsolescence built into them now. I don't see how the current generation of electric cars will ever be fixable. There is nothing much to fix on them.

Here's an interesting question. Have we reached peak shite? I reckon we've passed it, actually.

[sierraman]

15 minutes ago, chris667 said:

I don't think this will be a thing in the future.

Cars have obsolescence built into them now. I don't see how the current generation of electric cars will ever be fixable. There is nothing much to fix on them.

Here's an interesting question. Have we reached peak shite? I reckon we've passed it, actually.

I think it’ll be the opposite, you’ve only one big thing to go wrong - the battery, might cost £2-3k to recondition but sounds better than swapping turbos and timing chains going.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

16 minutes ago, chris667 said:

....I don't see how the current generation of electric cars will ever be fixable. There is nothing much to fix on them.....

The whole thing is a fix.

[sierraman]

I don’t know, people are starting to realise what a waste planned obsolescence is so you could see legislation that stops this. 

[Asimo]

34 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I don’t know, people are starting to realise what a waste planned obsolescence is so you could see legislation that stops this. 

I think people have realised what a waste planned obsolescence is for a long time: it was GM's marketing triumph of the 20s / 30s subsequently becoming universal in the western economies.

The trouble is that the car corporations don't have an alternative business plan and the politicians plan just to keep the corporations happy.

 

[eddyramrod]

I think @JimH has posted all the sense on this topic.  

Planned obsolescence?  Been with us much longer than I have, and I'm 62.

Leather seats?  Leave them to someone like Rolls Royce, who know (knew?) how to do it.  And why do these dismal, slitty-windowed interiors all have to be fucking black?

Diesels?  I'm glad of the advances in the likes of Transits, but nothing smaller should have one, simples.

Electronics?  FRO.

Plastics?  Ditto.

Crash protection?  Learn to fucking drive!

Electric cars?  Not developed enough yet (a complaint levelled at BL for at least 50 years) so stop forcing them on us.

Autoshite?  A refuge for those of us who are mad enough to care about the cheap old cars that nobody else cares about.  At least that's what it was when I joined in 2010.

[Six-cylinder]

1965

I became aware of cars in the 1960 so cars like the Jaguar E Type have left a mark.

I sometimes get asked what my favourite car is and have given different answers, I now realise that variety is the true answer to that question. Based on how I feel and needs is how I pick a car, from any year 1960 on.

[Dan29]

5 hours ago, Tadhg Tiogar said:

I noticed the E36 and E46 gaining such ubiquity that at one point it seemed that almost everyone had a 3-series of some description. They were like the Ford Escorts of their day.

Yes I'm pretty sure that during that era, the 3 series starting outselling the Mondeo each year. 

[PhilA]

Peak? Depends upon your definition but I would say about 3 years ago, the state of the art has been pushed again and cars are just now having pfaff added to them as sales bamf rather than actually being any better than their predecessors as a machine for a purpose.

Peak in terms of feel-good, not necessarily actually any good/rose-tinted specs? Mid 60's. Reliability was improved, lightweight monocoque designs with decent suspension, comfy seats and a simplicity that came from cost-cutting. 

Peak in terms of machismo/keeping up with the Joneses? Mid 90's. Technological advances in computers had reached a zenith, whereby they were complex enough to take care of the engine well, yet had become more reliable and hardened. Again the point at which simple engineering gained strength from metallurgy, electronics and CAD improvements.

 

There are many peaks, usually on the trailing edge of a significant change, mostly where the designers reached the point that their designs were affordable enough to mass produce but hadn't been wrung out to dry by the accountants.

 

Phil

[anonymous user]

Peak car for me would be 1978, when I passed my driving test.

Cars were still cars, not a lot of difference from the early days, fuel injection was for the brave (and Triumph).

It was still possible to use vintage cars as daily transport as mechanics understood them and they were fixable.

From the 80s onwards, conspicuous consumption and cheapening of the previously aspirational brands has lead to cars becoming fashion accessories  and mobile entertainment centres rather than transport.

[Bitzer]

It seems something wrong happened on the way to computerized heaven around 2003. The explanation I heard was that it was new, unproven/cheaper soldering technologies introduced, or possibly lead-free solders. It seems the malady was not limited to a single manufacturer. E.g. post-2003 ECUs in Punto,  first three years of ECUs in Stilo, instrument boards in Mk2 Focus, key cards in Mégane/Laguna, these are all infamous for failing because of poor quality of  soldered connections.

I wonder if somebody knows more about this chapter of automotive development?

[PhilA]

Yes. They've made some improvements but the boards and soldering technique temperature, wave soldering etc) weren't changed from 60/40 Pb/Sn solder and so the new lead free RoHS grade stuff would fracture and dry joint very badly.

Since then board design, alloy mixture and technique have improved the reliability.

 

The useless crap still fractures though.

[SiC]

Lead free solder and it's processes have come a long way in the last decade or so. Reliability is much improved.

Iirc it was only around 1% of lead that went into the environment was from electronics. I'm sure the harm in ripping up all the production equipment, re-engineering processes and e-waste that it took to get there was more than it saved.

Also around that time was the capacitor plague epidemic. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

[Dyslexic Viking]

I got to experience today why I like 80s cars so much. On a trip to the store (40 minutes drive) of the 10-12 cars I saw, 4 of these were from the 80's. 2 W123 Mercedes 1 Audi 80 B4 and an mk2 Fiesta towing a small trailer with firewood. All of these are in daily use and are still reliable and economical enough for people to use them. I think there is something special about cars that can be used for decades and still provide as good service as they did new.

[Timewaster]

On 9/19/2021 at 9:53 PM, brownnova said:

For me that year is 1997.

In 1997 cars were very capable, they handled well, had useful safety features (ABS and airbags being fairly common) and could keep a good pace over a long distance. 

In 1997 some of the greats were still in production… Ford Escort.

A 1997 Ford Escort?

 

Seriously? 

 

[loserone]

9 hours ago, sierraman said:

I think it’ll be the opposite, you’ve only one big thing to go wrong - the battery, might cost £2-3k to recondition but sounds better than swapping turbos and timing chains going.

Youve changed, man.

 

Not sure I agree tho, that LEAF I had was about as simple as electric cars get, from that perspective it was ace.  There's a reason @scaryoldcortina has bought one.

 

but many of the current electric cars are pushing the "high tech" angle.  Which is a shame, because they could be so beautifully simple.

9 hours ago, sierraman said:

I don’t know, people are starting to realise what a waste planned obsolescence is so you could see legislation that stops this. 

I do hope so.

[sierraman]

My main objection as a day to day car, I’m not taking Ferrari’s etc where the lack of a thunderous V12 makes it all a bit pointless is the bloody expense of them, I guess in time they’ll overcome this.

The motor is going to last you indefinitely, the batteries, from what I’ve read will probably (as far as they know) last 10 years minimum, by which point a thriving reconditioning market will likely have spawned. This will happen, whether VW, Toyota or whoever like it or not, there are people that can’t/won’t pay for a new one and will find a way of keeping the fuckers going through recon batteries or whatever. Myself included. 

Let’s be right if some of us can keep a 15 year old common rail diesel going, nursing an electric car along should be a piece of piss. 

Like anything though if you insist on being a trailblazer you will pay the price, which in this present time means £30,000 or whatever for a Corsa E, which is useless for a man like me that carries lengths of wood round and a pair of kids. It’s not unlike when I was a kid, practically nobody had a ‘personal computer’ apart from the occasional rich kids whose parents remortgaged their house to buy a Mac or whatever. Now you can buy a laptop for fuck all, if you could be arsed you can replace the batteries and fuck about with those green bits of tin inside so it allows you to browse website with ladies with no clothes on more quickly. 

[eddyramrod]

41 minutes ago, sierraman said:

so it allows you to browse website with ladies with no clothes on more quickly. 

Ladies with carefully-chosen clothes.  A hint of mystery can be more exciting than acres of bare flesh.

[brownnova]

3 hours ago, Timewaster said:

A 1997 Ford Escort?

 

Seriously? 

 

Wondered how long it would take for someone to question that tongue in cheek comment! 

[Timewaster]

1 minute ago, brownnova said:

Wondered how long it would take for someone to question that tongue in cheek comment! 

You never can tell on this site.

There is usually a flag waver for any given piece of crap.

[brownnova]

My parents owned one for years! A 1997 one too! 

[Dobloseven]

By 1997,wasn't the Escort nearing the end of its life, pending the Focus. But a greatly improved car compared to the 1990 iteration, with improved handling and new engines. 

[Timewaster]

1 hour ago, Dobloseven said:

By 1997,wasn't the Escort nearing the end of its life, pending the Focus. But a greatly improved car compared to the 1990 iteration, with improved handling and new engines. 

Greatly improved but still only just acceptable. 

Driven back to back against a contemporary 306, ZX or 214 they were still crap. 

[maxxo]

90s to early 2000s

however

in my opinion the car industry at the moment is way more interesting than it's been for years

to be honest, it's all personal perference

i myself am not too bothered what era a car i own is from, i like cars from all eras (except pre war, weirdly they're not interesting to me)

[Mrcento]

I'd say 1999.

It was pretty much the last sweet spot in the last era where cars were at the point of computerisation but nothing particularly complicated.

Safety standards were improving, but not at the point where every car had to be the same shape for pedestrian protection.

Manufacturers were still trying to do things differently to each other, Platform sharing was starting to be a more common thing, but everything tended to have its own flavour.

Manufacturers had more or less nailed the mechanicals.

The general selection of things on sale was insane.

Ford were on a roll with the Focus, the Mk2 Mondeo was nearing replacement, The Puma and Ka were out. Vauxhall had a very different range, The Omega was still there in pre facelift flavour, The Vx220 had just been announced and would soon be here. The French were still uniquely French, Peugeot had a great range of sweet handling, nice riding cars,the Italians were still chucking out quirk and flair with various Alfas, Fiat Coupe, 5 pot Turbos, with the odd battshittery thing like the Multipla. BMW had just released the E46, the E38 7 series was still on sale, the E39 5 was king of the exec class, The Mercs still felt like Mercs before the cost cutting really took hold, VW, Audi, Seat and Skoda were all distinctly different brands and Nissan weren't Renault. Subarua and Mitsubishi were the rally kings.

In Motorsport, the BTCC was still great, F1 was interesting, Rally was a great watch.

A lot of the good sort of carried over into the early/mid 00's, i'd say 2005/6 was really where it started to go downhill and become an overcomputerised, over complicated beancounting  dreary mess.

[puddlethumper]

I've never owned a car/van later than 1990 so I suppose for me it was the 80's although I had lots of 60's and  70's shite which was great fun. 

[GeordieInExile]

The same year as we hit peak everything else. 1995.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

20 hours ago, Mrcento said:

I'd say 1999.

....In Motorsport, the BTCC was still great....

The only time I've ever been interested in BTCC was during the period when you could see Steve Soper / John Clelland / Rickard Rydell and their rivals pilot some truly mundane shite: Volvo 850, Honda Accord, the Pug 406, Toyota Carina E, Vauxhall Mk.3 Cavalier/Vectra, BMW E36, and a few others.

That was peak shite racing, and you could even play BTCC games on the PC....

[jon.k]

I am as happy with my 1996 VW van as I would be with its modern counterpart. I just wish it wasn't rusting and wearing out before my eyes.  

Peugeot's lineup through the late 80's - 90s is peak car to me. So nicely designed, tough, lovely to drive and sensibly proportioned.

I often think that if you were rich enough to afford a nice car and could get fuel in the 30s/40s/50s driving would have come with a real sense of freedom and adventure. I'm thinking of the RAF officers zooming about the lanes in MGs, or maybe the Lord of the Manor in a Bentley steaming down an A road. I wouldn't mind going back in time and driving around where I live but with empty roads. But what is the peak time to have owned a car is a different question, I suppose.