What year was ‘peak car’?

[JimH]

Do you know what the very, very bestest thing about 1973 was? We had all these awesome cars to buy and not one single one of them ran on gas oil. In fact almost no cars ran on diesel. There are people alive today who have no idea that filling station forecourts don't have to be covered in diesel. 

The Lancia Stratos and roads which were less clattery, smelly and slippy? Driver! 1973 and don't spare the horses. 

 

 

[HMC]

How about right now? Some decent warranty periods, various options to finance it, a highly developed road network and fuel station network, and Internal combustion engines at the zenith of their development. 
 

(runs for cover)

[Tadhg Tiogar]

10 minutes ago, JimH said:

Do you know what the very, very bestest thing about 1973 was? ...

The OPEC oil price crisis?

[JimH]

Crisis? What crisis?

[ProgRocker]

Agree with the 1994-97 benchmark. I'd be happy driving a Corolla from that era. And even a Kia Mentor.

Both cars were in the top 10 of the JD Power survey at the time. 

[JimH]

12 minutes ago, HMC said:

How about right now? Some decent warranty periods, various options to finance it, a highly developed road network and fuel station network, and Internal combustion engines at the zenith of their development. 
 

(runs for cover)

And I have absolutely no argument if the title of the thread were "What Year Was Peak Transport?"

Cars were about more than just numbers on a page. Yes, it is true that they were about more than numbers on a page because they were expensive to buy and run, unreliable and dangerous to crash - you had to have some affection for something to put up with those negatives. 

[motorpunk]

What year did they stop using lead in automotive paint? I have a feeling it was around the mid '90s. So I'll have a car from then, please. I had a Volvo 850R which felt like it would last forever, the paint felt like it was 1 centimetre thick. 

 

[Low Horatio gearbox]

14 hours ago, Bstardchild said:

For barges 1992 - Lotus Carlton

FTFY 😁

 

 I'd concur mid 90s. Cars were reliable and manufacturers still had their own way of doing things that their brands were famous or infamous for. And you had endless choice from run of the mill saloons to 2 door sports cars  and everything in between.

 

My heart wants to say the 70s but my prescription rose tinted specs cant hide that,while the cars were great or had superb styling. Sometimes a working heater and the ability to proceede without a gentle  warm up or wanting gto fold the rear seats down (folding rear seats being possibly  bloody brilliant) to get something in, preclude it.

[eddyramrod]

40 minutes ago, JimH said:

Crisis? What crisis?

Exactly!

@danthecapriman will be along shortly to agree!

[LoftyvRS]

I think the peak car era may have some relation to the period in which we enjoyed peak motoring / driving etc, and a lot of that has to do with our personal circumstances at that particular time.

For me, like many I have great affection for early to mid 90's cars, probably as i was at my peak then as well being early 20's, single, reasonable disposable income and the cars only seemed to enhance that, if my grey matter serves to tell me.

Driving mostly hum drum cars after passing my test, my very early 20's saw me take a job as a fleet manager, and suddenly the toy box was open!! I regularly ran month long demo's from the big car manufacturers and would always bag something tasty, Mondeo v6's, Cavalier GSi's and the favourite left fielder the Primera P10 eGT. 

Fast (or so they felt back then), simple, fun cars that just rewarded the driver when pressing on, no over the top gadgets, no real interfering driver aids, just jump in and go. Obviously being early 20's these early memories of easy performance, quieter roads and no real burdens or responsibilities all combine to make the memories that much sweeter. 

This is why in a field of modern cars, pop and bang maps, 500bhp family saloons, you'll find me in a corner, all misty eyed over a Cavalier GSi with rusty arches. 

[sierraman]

I mean peak car in terms of what matrix? Peak of coolness? Obviously a 1983 Capri 2.8? Peak of reliability? Probably a Prius, they never seem to go wrong. Peak of interiors? 1978 Vauxhall Viceroy but only with the green velour seats. 

[danthecapriman]

2 hours ago, eddyramrod said:

Exactly!

@danthecapriman will be along shortly to agree!

Dam straight!

Fuel is there for burning, might as well burn as much of it as possible!

[danthecapriman]

29 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I mean peak car in terms of what matrix? Peak of coolness? Obviously a 1983 Capri 2.8? Peak of reliability? Probably a Prius, they never seem to go wrong. Peak of interiors? 1978 Vauxhall Viceroy but only with the green velour seats. 

This.

If it’s outright reliability and robustness where you can jump in and go, at reasonable cost, without having to fix the thing every five minutes, then I’d agree with most - the mid 90’s to late 90’s seems the sweet spot. Even if they were boring and bland almost universally!

Styling? For me the 70’s has it. Loads of variation, every make had its own look and feel. To me very little looks better than a Mk3 Cortina. It’s a real masterpiece imho and exactly how a saloon car should look. 
Although the 50’s and 60’s (American cars in particular) are pretty tough to beat too.

 

I think my ‘peak’ for a good mix of everything is the 80’s. 
They’re still old enough to have cool looks and actual styling but, if you choose the right cars they’re also incredibly well made, usable and reliable, but still easy to work on at home. That’s why I run an 80’s Volvo as my daily driver. Over 30 years old and still does it’s job easily and it stands out in a car park. If I could only ever have one car in my lifetime to fulfil all requirements, it’s got to be an old Volvo from the 80’s.

 

[Schaefft]

About 1996 with the arrival of OBD2, making diagnostics much easier, to about 2005ish, right before cars got overly complex due to infotainment and emissions tech making them anything but lasting until the end of times. Exact year depends on model and such. They are also more refined and higher performing than anything before them.

[goosey]

I do wonder if people in 30 years time will reminisce about how good cars from the 2010s etc were 

[danthecapriman]

5 minutes ago, goosey said:

I do wonder if people in 30 years time will reminisce about how good cars from the 2010s etc were 

Most probably.

Although, I’m glad I’m of an age where I can and have been able to experience and enjoy the cars I have and the cars I love. I’m pretty sure there’s a time, not too much further in the future, where doing this won’t be so easy or even possible anymore. 
Im glad I’ve had experience of big V8’s, chrome laden classics, stylish coupes, rusty old sheds and all the rest of it from the internal combustion era. Despite all the shortcomings of them. Future generations will be really missing out I think.

[LoftyvRS]

5 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Although, I’m glad I’m of an age where I can and have been able to experience and enjoy the cars I have and the cars I love. I’m pretty sure there’s a time, not too much further in the future, where doing this won’t be so easy or even possible anymore. 

100% agree, the last 25 years will be looked on (probably) in 50 years time as the greatest period of combustion engine powered cars. 

Mind you with the advent of huge output EV cars the performance of these older ICE powered cars will be looked back probably the same way we look at steam propulsion.

Either way i'm glad to have been there to witness old school turbo lag, screaming VTEC noises and the like.

 

[Shite Ron]

1 hour ago, danthecapriman said:

This.

If it’s outright reliability and robustness where you can jump in and go, at reasonable cost, without having to fix the thing every five minutes, then I’d agree with most - the mid 90’s to late 90’s seems the sweet spot. Even if they were boring and bland almost universally!

Styling? For me the 70’s has it. Loads of variation, every make had its own look and feel. To me very little looks better than a Mk3 Cortina. It’s a real masterpiece imho and exactly how a saloon car should look. 
Although the 50’s and 60’s (American cars in particular) are pretty tough to beat too.

 

I think my ‘peak’ for a good mix of everything is the 80’s. 
They’re still old enough to have cool looks and actual styling but, if you choose the right cars they’re also incredibly well made, usable and reliable, but still easy to work on at home. That’s why I run an 80’s Volvo as my daily driver. Over 30 years old and still does it’s job easily and it stands out in a car park. If I could only ever have one car in my lifetime to fulfil all requirements, it’s got to be an old Volvo from the 80’s.

In 1998 I went to the motor show to look at the newly launched Rover 75 and Alfa 156, both great designs after 16 years of tedium, both however were front wheel drive, the S type Jaguar was also launched and seemed interesting if expensive but did not excite me, I had considered buying a new car but it would have to be something I could keep forever, none of these seemed any better than my mk5 Cortina. I then decided to buy a 5 year old TVR Chimaera

 

I fully agree.

The title is open to some interpretation and also the answer can change depending on an individuals perspective. Cars of the 90’s were good in many ways but to me were dull as ditchwater. If you want a car as a basic requirement to get from A to B then no argument from me. If you want something that puts a smile on your face every time you get in or even look at it out of the window then it needs to be older.

If the question was peak styling then JimH is closest as the 1960’s and 70’s were the best styled cars by a long way, architecture of this time was also bang on in my opinion, I would love a mid century modernist house. The Pantera is another car I love along with Jensen Interceptors and a Maserati Khamsin.

I stand by my choice of 1981 though as although mk4 Cortina’s were much better looking the seats and ergonomics of a mk5 are perfect for me, they also have a much better ride despite being the same chassis as a mk3. 
As I have suffered with a bad back since my early 20’s the Cortina mk5 is the only car I have driven where I get out feeling better than when I get in, especially when I have at times been behind the wheel for over 12 hours, I drove home from Spain once in one go and on another occasion drove from Angouleme to Jaen in one day. I would not choose any other car for these journeys. I agree a 90’s car would use less fuel and possibly have a potentially higher top speed but when can you really go over 110 mph? And what price do you put on comfort and happiness?
It is a case of horses for courses and also what your personal priorities are.

I often wish I was born 20 years earlier to have enjoyed cars at their best but I was lucky to drive great cars costing less than a weeks wages for 20 years, Cortina’s were extremely reliable but rusted, I learnt to weld so had cheap and enjoyable motoring until being forced into a company car. I did have a couple of mk1 and 2 Focuses as hire cars from work for extended periods and found the Astra a better car despite being a Ford man, neither were any match for my Cortina though.
I realise we are all different thankfully but I know from driving many and varied cars which have been best for me. I do realise there is some sentiment and nostalgia involved and also I may have been unlucky with some cars as I am sure not all Vauxhall’s are as bad as those I had experience of.

Ultimately I expect more from a car than just getting me from A to B, it should also be reliable, easy to maintain and most of all make me happy to drive and also just look at. It is not all about mpg.

 

 

[HMC]

Great thread, like the different criteria with which we can reason our cases.

Another nicety of more recent times is safety and comfort. Yes I’m getting old I suppose! Again the 90s saw some technical advances. For the first time with economies of scale and more advanced manufacturing and design processes many non luxury cars could be had with aircon.  EURO NCAP saw the light of day in the middle of the decade; yes as much as being cool I’m interested in saving my own skin. 

[JeeExEll]

9 hours ago, JimH said:

Do you know what the very, very bestest thing about 1973 was? We had all these awesome cars to buy and not one single one of them ran on gas oil. In fact almost no cars ran on diesel. There are people alive today who have no idea that filling station forecourts don't have to be covered in diesel. 

The Lancia Stratos and roads which were less clattery, smelly and slippy? Driver! 1973 and don't spare the horses. 

 

 

'I've come here by diesel, ya bassstid'.

 

'George, ask Cooney to warm the glow plugs on the Consul, I think we've got a pull'.

[TheOtherStu]

5 hours ago, LoftyvRS said:

I think the peak car era may have some relation to the period in which we enjoyed peak motoring / driving etc, and a lot of that has to do with our personal circumstances at that particular time.

Interesting point. I had my kids young, so when I actually got round to passing my test in 1996 at the tender age of 24, my wife got pregnant a few months later. Therefore disposable income and cars have only occurred in the last few years.

However, I did particularly enjoy driving in the mid-late 90s, even though my motor of choice (not) was a Rover 213S (HGF) followed by a Vauxhall Carlton. Times were simpler then. 50p a litre for fuel. The Polis were understaffed, but speed cameras were not yet a common occurrence. There was definitely less traffic on the roads and it didn't seem like cars were the eternal enemy. Parking was cheap or free.

Whereas we're about to hit a Big Brother point in motoring. In the next few years, black boxes are almost certainly going to become mandatory. Road tax will be based on mileage and this will be the excuse. Which means that eventually, the powers that be will know exactly how fast we are driving at any one time. I've already seen proposals to limit cars to 70mph except under certain circumstances.

 

Now, I'm no speed demon before anyone attacks me, but yes, like EVERYONE, occasionally I'll stray into 35mph territory without realising. Or indeed as I found yesterday, accidentally doing 63mph in a 50mph zone (why on earth do Oxfordshire and Northants insist on making all single-lane A roads 50mph?)

I try really hard to keep to the speed limits. I'm far from perfect. And a GPS based black box would almost certainly have me lose my licence within a month or two, as it would most of us! Certainly, any fun that's left in driving would instantly disappear.

[chris667]

I have been thinking about this.

Is "interesting" the same as "peak"?

I defined peak car in 1996 because it was the first year I drove a car that didn't require any maintenance. The Corsa was boring, but so much more advanced than everything that came before it.

There were much more interesting cars before, but part of what made them interesting made them not as good. I'd go with cars from the seventies for interesting.

[HMC]

It’s all about reference points and budget, innit.

Our landed gentry/ moneyed playboy man may feel peak cars was the 20s. An 8 litre Bentley thanks; like your haute couture I’ll choose the clothes myself.

 Hmmm after some thought let’s go with saoutichik my good man. Have Jacques come up with something special.  Yes have it dispatched to Paris ASAP. Add towering performance and flamboyant coachwork to little other road traffic and yes please; peak car attained. 

[Soundwave]

I'd go with the consensus that my favourite period of cars is late 80s to mid 90s. As for "peak" car however... despite the lack of character and difficulty of home maintenance, I'd have to agree that from a purely engineering standpoint, "peak" car is always right now. That's the nature of technology, it's always moving forward, even if it leaves us somewhat cold.

[robinmasters]

7 hours ago, goosey said:

I do wonder if people in 30 years time will reminisce about how good cars from the 2010s etc were 

I struggle  to believe that someone who chose their car because the PCP payment was £149pcm and the infotainment synced with their chosen brand of telephone will, but on the other hand is that really any different from someone who chose their car 30 years ago because it fell into their company car allowance band and had an 'i' badge? 

[Bstardchild]

11 hours ago, Low Horatio gearbox said:

FTFY 😁

No you really didn't - from 2000 if it was dry above 25 deg and it needed a run (AKA and excuse) I'd take the LC

If it was wet or cold or I actually wanted to get somewhere quickly and it was less than 25 deg ambient then I'd take the Senator 24V every time

[Dan29]

16 hours ago, St.Jude said:

Don't worry, I am here to contradict you.

I don't think there was a peak year as such, but a peak group of years. 1996 - 2005.

A lot of what you said applies around this near-decade. Reliability was on point. Cars were basic enough but had the right sort of technology being introduced to them. From 2006 onwards, cars started to become more reliant on electronics. Then the arse went out of it altogether after that. 

Agree with this - I currently have 2001 Ford Puma so smack bang in the middle of the peak zone 👍

 

If you forced me to pick a year I'd pick the year the Puma was launched - which turns out to be ...... 1997, so I concur with your thesis @brownnova

 

[sierraman]

8 hours ago, robinmasters said:

I struggle  to believe that someone who chose their car because the PCP payment was £149pcm and the infotainment synced with their chosen brand of telephone will, but on the other hand is that really any different from someone who chose their car 30 years ago because it fell into their company car allowance band and had an 'i' badge? 

People have been getting themselves in the shit for cars for years, it’s nothing new. I just think now the brands you’d have once got that had some status have just been run into the ground and ultimately ended up forgettable, back in the 90’s if you scraped together enough to get a new 3 series you were doing well, they weren’t cheap but they looked and showed to people that you were ‘doing well’ so for that reason they had exclusivity. 

Unfortunately now under the whole ‘brand accessibility’ bollocks there’s people that pick tab ends up part time trucking about in a new 3 series. Which is all wrong. It shouldn’t be accessible to everyone because then it just becomes street furniture, the exclusivity has gone and it just looks low rent. 

Same thing happened with Rover - made it so people that had no money could climb in a new 213S so they could have the Rover experience. Look what happened there. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

...., back in the 90’s if you scraped together enough to get a new 3 series you were doing well, they weren’t cheap but they looked and showed to people that you were ‘doing well’ so for that reason they had exclusivity. 

Unfortunately now under the whole ‘brand accessibility’ bollocks there’s people that pick tab ends up part time trucking about in a new 3 series. Which is all wrong. It shouldn’t be accessible to everyone because then it just becomes street furniture, the exclusivity has gone and it just looks low rent....

I noticed the E36 and E46 gaining such ubiquity that at one point it seemed that almost everyone had a 3-series of some description. They were like the Ford Escorts of their day.

[JimH]

12 hours ago, HMC said:

It’s all about reference points and budget, innit.

Our landed gentry/ moneyed playboy man may feel peak cars was the 20s. An 8 litre Bentley thanks; like your haute couture I’ll choose the clothes myself.

You can point to any era and there will be some fine motor cars. I might argue the late 20s was as good as it was going to get and I'll have a Voisin and a T35B for Sunday fun (Dear God, the French really did give up, didn't they?) but that takes a very selfish view of it. In the 1920s cars were insanely expensive and were beyond the means of almost anyone who didn't own half of Hampshire. Even in the bleakness of the sludge that falls off assembly lines today there are high spots. Well, there is that T50 thing that GMA is building. 

My argument for 1973 is not just that there was the Bora but there was something great to suit everyone's budget. 

As for this reliability/complexity balance thing all I will say is that if I scroll to the top of the page it says "Autoshite". It does not say "Sensible cars that offer an ideal balance between reliability, ease of use and ease of maintenance" - where is the fun in that? Sure the 90s offered some advances in engine management and manufacturing (however, those will a memory longer than a goldfish will recall that we bellyached then that cars were now too complex and the banger market was doomed) but they also gave us some of the most meh cars ever. Anything good you can think of in the 90s was actually an 80s car that limped on with bigger plastic bumpers and blacked out back lights. 

The 405 turned into the 406, the CX became the XM, the 205 oozed into the 206 and the lovely 800 grew a fucking stupid chrome grille for some reason. I'm not suggesting any of these cars were bad but no one can argue that they were better "cars" than what they replaced. 

In 1973 engineering wizards Matra gave the (slightly better off) common man this.

And its interior looked like this

 

That was just one of the dozens of truly awesome cars you could have bought in 1973. Are you going to look at those three green seats and crazy window winders and tell me that the decade that gave us the Renault 19 was the best?