Old airbags in shonky old rammel: still safe?

[artdjones]

3 hours ago, Tamworthbay said:

Not the case, I had a recall on my 51 plate 3 series in 2018 for both driver and passenger bags. Got a voucher for a meal at the local pub as they didn’t have a courtesy car spare which was very nice, and a free valet.

Yes,but if there's a recall then there will have to be a large scale new production to meet a demand.If you buy a "new" airbag because you're worried about the one on your car being out of date,and the car has been out of production for 7 years you will probably get one that's been sitting on the shelf for a good while.

[junkyarddog]

I have the perfect solution if you are concerned about ageing airbags......

 

Buy a older car without them!

[Tamworthbay]

20 minutes ago, artdjones said:

Yes,but if there's a recall then there will have to be a large scale new production to meet a demand.If you buy a "new" airbag because you're worried about the one on your car being out of date,and the car has been out of production for 7 years you will probably get one that's been sitting on the shelf for a good while.

Manufacturers continue to make parts for years after a car goes out of production, some are better than others but none stop the day the last car rolls off the production line. They are legally required to provide parts by the EU for a set time. 
The point I was making about the recall is that manufacturers are made aware of issues and will remedy them even on cars of significant age. So if there was a problem with the functionality of an air bag due to age they wouldn’t replace it with an equally old one.

[BorniteIdentity]

I don’t want to sound like some lecturous old pump - but if you’re worried about old airbags going off in your face (and some of us fantasise about shit like that) make sure you’ve got some decent tyres. Choose wisely for the climate and driving style, don’t be a fucking mingebag when it comes to changing them and make sure things like your alignment are right. 

I had to come to the very, very uncomfortable conclusion that if I crash my Mini properly then my kids will get a new Dad. It focuses the mind. 

In short? Fuck airbags. Bumble along on some sexy arse rubber. 

[maxxo]

3 hours ago, sierraman said:

I get you like the car but money does come in to it at some point. Where do you end with that thought? A complete £10,000 restoration on a 15 year old car to make it as new? Like @Split_Pin said what about the brake pipes, what about the parts of the monocoque you can’t see? 

if i had the money yes i'd do it

well yes those parts which can't be seen are of a concern but i just do all i can to keep it going and as good and safe as possible

[SiC]

27 minutes ago, Tamworthbay said:

They are legally required to provide parts by the EU for a set time. 

I think it's only ten years. I know loads of parts on the Clio II are NLA. That stopped production in 2008. 

[Tamworthbay]

4 minutes ago, SiC said:

I think it's only ten years. I know loads of parts on the Clio II are NLA. That stopped production in 2008. 

That sounds about right, some carry on for much longer e.g. Volvo and some like Peugeot have a ‘classic dept’ that reproduce obsolete stuff. 

[omegod]

I find many a reassuring sight when browsing Copart, lots of old gear there with blown airbags so they must ( mostly) still work 

[juular]

From a science point of view is there a reason why these would fail to work / degrade over time, or is the BBE date purely an arse covering exercise?

[bunglebus]

2 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I had to come to the very, very uncomfortable conclusion that if I crash my Mini properly then my kids will get a new Dad. It focuses the mind. 

Several people close to me have expressed a desire to own a Mini. I've told them only if it has a full cage extending right to the front subframe, they fold up like tinfoil.

[Matty]

2 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I don’t want to sound like some lecturous old pump - but if you’re worried about old airbags going off in your face (and some of us fantasise about shit like that) make sure you’ve got some decent tyres. Choose wisely for the climate and driving style, don’t be a fucking mingebag when it comes to changing them and make sure things like your alignment are right. 

I had to come to the very, very uncomfortable conclusion that if I crash my Mini properly then my kids will get a new Dad. It focuses the mind. 

In short? Fuck airbags. Bumble along on some sexy arse rubber. 

When I was 17 we were 5 up in a mini that hit a kerb and barrel rolled into a hedge. Apart from this twitch and having one leg shorter than the other im as sound as a pound....

[Botzarb]

I know Fifth Gear and a few others have looked into this exact problem. I don’t think the airbags are as much of a problem as rust/the rest of the structure.

An decent test done by Folksam: Rusty Golf and Rusty Mazda 6

https://youtu.be/H5ohDlU0Dwc

 

[Dan_ZTT]

8 hours ago, omegod said:

I find many a reassuring sight when browsing Copart, lots of old gear there with blown airbags so they must ( mostly) still work 

 

7 hours ago, juular said:

From a science point of view is there a reason why these would fail to work / degrade over time, or is the BBE date purely an arse covering exercise?

 

+1 to these things. 

Keep an eye on your tyres, brakes etc, the sensible stuff, don't sweat about airbags. 

There are a LOT of 10-20 year-old cars on the road, if old airbags really were a problem someone would have written a scathing article in the guardian by now. 

[Timewaster]

15 hours ago, Matty said:

When I was 17 we were 5 up in a mini that hit a kerb and barrel rolled into a hedge. Apart from this twitch and having one leg shorter than the other im as sound as a pound....

Being 5 up probably helped if you were wedged in. 

Plus that would have slowed the car down, reducing the impact speed. 

 

[jonny69]

22 hours ago, BorniteIdentity said:

I don’t want to sound like some lecturous old pump - but if you’re worried about old airbags going off in your face (and some of us fantasise about shit like that) make sure you’ve got some decent tyres. Choose wisely for the climate and driving style, don’t be a fucking mingebag when it comes to changing them and make sure things like your alignment are right.

I don’t think you really understood my question. My concern was that I’m driving around with a 15+ year old airbag in front of me. Which is a 15+ year old box of explosives. I used to work in pyrotechnics and there’s no fucking way you’d even handle 15 year old pyros, let alone store them in a box in front of you when you’re driving. I probably wouldn’t sit on my sofa with a 15 year old box of fireworks stored under it either. I don’t think it’s just going to go off by itself but we’ve had no definite answer to that yet other than ‘it might not go off’ and some anecdotal musings that are little more than opinion. 

[Agila]

@jonny69 in fairness jonny, you sound better qualified than most to talk on the subject.

The very simple way I look at it is, we all will have our own opinions, it generally won't affect other people outside of your vehicle unless you crash and mount the pavement after a false trigger etc.

I believe the Government generally protects us from ourselves with rules and regs and when problems have arisen they have been dealt with by recalls.

The answer won't come on this forum I don't think unless we have airbag specialists studying age degradation issues etc.

[Angrydicky]

I must admit I was slightly concerned about the possibility of the airbags going off in my old Rovers when I was tooling around in them, so it's good to hear the default setting for failure is for them not to do anything at all. 

I don't really care if they go off or not in the event of an accident, as I've been driving non-equipped cars for most of my driving career (and indeed own nothing so equipped at the moment) so the chances are if I was involved in an accident the car I was driving wouldn't have an airbag. Or maybe not even seatbelts, crumple zones, or anything else really.

Chances are I'd be a goner if I was involved in a serious accident in one of my old cars, but the best thing you can do is drive sensibly and always be on the lookout for dickheads. If it concerned me that much, I'd probably be one of these boring folks driving around in a modern EuroNcap Blobmobile!

[cort1977]

My US market W210 mercedes had an airbag expiry of 15 years on the door jamb.

@jonny69 you make an interesting point about old pyrotechnics.  As @Dan_ZTT says above, I suppose the counter point is the thousands of old air bags still fitted that don't seem to cause an issue going off at the wrong time.  Although as a Guradian reader I reckon that paper is too clueless about cars to worry about this.

[SiC]

Considering older cars are still heavily used in other countries, especially Eastern Europe, we'd soon hear if airbags were exploding prematurely with any regularity. In terms of capabilities of reacting with age, I'm no chemist so can't comment. Looks like the chief compound for older airbags was Sodium Azide salts.

This has a wire going through it that acts as an electronic match. From an electrical point of view, if there is a correct resistance going across it during the measurement phase, there is a good chance it'll still work when required. If the wire snaps, you'll be soon be getting measurement errors and thus airbag light on. 

Any chemists on here that would know if Sodium Azide degrades? @richardmorris ?

[richardmorris]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

Considering older cars are still heavily used in other countries, especially Eastern Europe, we'd soon hear if airbags were exploding prematurely with any regularity. In terms of capabilities of reacting with age, I'm no chemist so can't comment. Looks like the chief compound for older airbags was Sodium Azide salts.

This has a wire going through it that acts as an electronic match. From an electrical point of view, if there is a correct resistance going across it during the measurement phase, there is a good chance it'll still work when required. If the wire snaps, you'll be soon be getting measurement errors and thus airbag light on. 

Any chemists on here that would know if Sodium Azide degrades? @richardmorris ?

Azide dyes are usually stable until heated- the N=N=N bonds are strong. I wouldn't get it wet though!

[St.Jude]

Given I've a 2001 MG ZR/Rover 25 on the driveway, bought specifically for parts to build my Lada with, one of the carry over items I wanted were seat belts. The Lada has none in the rear, and the two at the front aren't the retractable type that I've become accustomed to in my (relatively) short 32 years of life.

However, when reading the Haynes manual about the car, it stated that the seat belt pre-tensioners have explosives on them, and they should be changed every 15 years. Now I didn't think seat belts had that sort of explosive potential and that it was just the airbags. But I haven't got to the point of breaking the Rover, or having to put belts in to the Lada yet, for me to investigate that further. 

If it's true, then I would be more concerned about the belts not going pop rather than the airbag. 

[bunglebus]

The pre-tensioners just pull the belt a bit tighter in the event of an accident. The belts will still function normally even if they don't go off