Shit Ideas

[sierraman]

Let’s have your thoughts on some absolutely fucking stupid ideas there’s been over the years and bad design on cars. One that sticks in my mind was the PAS pump running off the timing belt on the Lancia Gamma. 

[HMC]

Sounds like an engineering biased question. I would venture the simplex chain driven oil pump on a generation of vag TDI engines. It looks odd diagrammatically and from an engineering perspective apparently it’s questionable- resulting in premature failure of the drive to the oil pump and goodbye engine. Mission critical but flakey engineering practice.

[trigger]

The radio pointing towards the passenger on the Mk2 Marina onwards and Ital, I never understood that! 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

The rear wiper motor on the Golf MKIV platform.  The washer fluid jet and pipe is the spindle of the motor.  When the fluid inevitably leaks, it rusts the inside of the wiper mechanism and eventually fails.  Every single time.  Stupid, stupid design.  Also - same platform - not being able to fold the rear seats down fully with the front seats back.  This means that I have to sit in discomfort, too close to the wheel, when the rear seats are down...

[Bren]

Electric handbrake. Why?

[DoctorRetro]

Have you ever seen the suspension setup on a Mercedes 300TE 4 matic? 

[Bobthebeard]

The (engine oil) dipstick design on my Dacia Logan MCV. Renault 1.5 dCI engine IIRC. Impossible to get any kind of meaningful reading of oil level as the oil is wiped off somewhere inside the plastic housing on the way out. One side of the dipstick may* show as a smeary, possibly correct level, the other side has no oil showing. Repeated attempts differ every time. Sometimes both sides are the same, below minimum. I can only assume that there is 'some' oil in there. Can't immediately think of anything much simpler to design than a dipstick, pretty basic concept. No electronic oil level check either as on some other cars with the same engine. So the 'shit design' dipstick is it then. The dipstick assembly looks about as well made as a pair of doll's knickers so will doubtless break soon anyway.

[SiC]

41 minutes ago, Bren said:

Electric handbrake. Why?

Frees a lot of room up in the centre console between the two seats. Also makes hill starts a doddle. 

[SiC]

17 minutes ago, Bobthebeard said:

The (engine oil) dipstick design on my Dacia Logan MCV. Renault 1.5 dCI engine IIRC. 

At least there is a dipstick. Our A4, like most modern VAG, doesn't have one at all. 

I'm surprised there isn't an electronic oil level sensor on the Dacia. Renault have been putting them in their vehicles for years. Usually get the satisfying OIL OK on the dash and if you hit the trip reset counter, it'll tell you the exact level it's reading. 

[New POD]

41 minutes ago, Bren said:

Electric handbrake. Why?

Because......if you have problems with shoulder pain* and pulling up the handbrake hurts and takes you out of action for 2 days.....it might be the difference between driving and not. 

 

*Caused by calcific growth on the shoulder joint. 

Plus you'll never fail your driving test on the hill start

 

[Tartan58]

52 minutes ago, Bren said:

Electric handbrake. Why?

I hated the idea of these with a passion however having had one for the last 4 months I love it, especially how it automatically apply the handbrake when stationary so you don't need to sit with your foot on the pedal. Find it a real faff driving cars with manual handbrakes now!

Of course the thought of it going wrong still terrifies me!

9 minutes ago, SiC said:

At least there is a dipstick. Our A4, like most modern VAG, doesn't have one at all. 

 

Despite being a modern VAG product our 2018 Skoda does have a dipstick which I am thankful for as I am a bit anal (or sensible) about checking the oil every week.

 

However having automatic wipers instead of a variable intermittent wipe is incredibly annoying, it never seems to get it right and I find myself having to flick it on and off manually anyway.

[rantingYoof]

Mercedes and its Sensotronic Braking System from 2003-2006ish.

Specifically, the sensor which failed after a certain number of applications (of the brakes) and requires 'resetting' to avoid catastrophe.

Why weren't simple normal brakes of the sort used by everyone else for years and years good enough?

My dad's E320 makes all sorts of weird noises and it's quite disconcerting.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[holbeck]

1 hour ago, trigger said:

The radio pointing towards the passenger on the Mk2 Marina onwards and Ital, I never understood that! 

Injury's sustained from radio vol / tuner spindle's was a thing in 1970's accidents. 

BL tried to address this in their SRV2 concept vehicle. The facia design for the Mk2 Marina was a direct lift from the safety concept prototype

Can't remember the exact logic of why a passenger was more expendable in a crash, but hey - they tried! 

[tooSavvy]

37 minutes ago, Bobthebeard said:

The (engine oil) dipstick design on my Dacia Logan MCV. Renault 1.5 dCI engine IIRC. Impossible to get any kind of meaningful reading of oil level as the oil is wiped off somewhere inside the plastic housing on the way out. One side of the dipstick may* show as a smeary, possibly correct level, the other side has no oil showing. Repeated attempts differ every time. Sometimes both sides are the same, below minimum. I can only assume that there is 'some' oil in there. Can't immediately think of anything much simpler to design than a dipstick, pretty basic concept. No electronic oil level check either as on some other cars with the same engine. So the 'shit design' dipstick is it then. The dipstick assembly looks about as well made as a pair of doll's knickers so will doubtless break soon anyway.

Unless it has some origami-esque contortions.... How about an un formed wire coathanger [mark true dip length off original] and carry in the boot ??

[Dan the van]

I think it was the early CX that had the radio fitted vertically in front of the gear lever making it impossible to read.Citroen were quite mad back then tho'.

[paulplom]

Side repeater built into wing mirrors. Fantastic idea.

[wuvvum]

32 minutes ago, New POD said:

Because......if you have problems with shoulder pain* and pulling up the handbrake hurts and takes you out of action for 2 days.....it might be the difference between driving and not. 

 

*Caused by calcific growth on the shoulder joint. 

Have you tried swallowing a couple of Calgon tablets?

[Raff]

51 minutes ago, Bobthebeard said:

The (engine oil) dipstick design on my Dacia Logan MCV. Renault 1.5 dCI engine IIRC. Impossible to get any kind of meaningful reading of oil level as the oil is wiped off somewhere inside the plastic housing on the way out. One side of the dipstick may* show as a smeary, possibly correct level, the other side has no oil showing. Repeated attempts differ every time. Sometimes both sides are the same, below minimum. I can only assume that there is 'some' oil in there. Can't immediately think of anything much simpler to design than a dipstick, pretty basic concept. No electronic oil level check either as on some other cars with the same engine. So the 'shit design' dipstick is it then. The dipstick assembly looks about as well made as a pair of doll's knickers so will doubtless break soon anyway.

On my 08 Astra, you're instructed  to warm the engine up to temperature, wait 5 minutes, clean dipstick as usual, reinsert and rotate 180 degrees to get a correct reading. As a result people tend to overfill them and MOT testers give you advisories for low oil.

[trigger]

1 hour ago, holbeck said:

Injury's sustained from radio vol / tuner spindle's was a thing in 1970's accidents. 

BL tried to address this in their SRV2 concept vehicle. The facia design for the Mk2 Marina was a direct lift from the safety concept prototype

Can't remember the exact logic of why a passenger was more expendable in a crash, but hey - they tried! 

That actually makes a lot of sense now, still a ridiculous idea mind! 

[Bobthebeard]

11 minutes ago, Raff said:

On my 08 Astra, you're instructed  to warm the engine up to temperature, wait 5 minutes, clean dipstick as usual, reinsert and rotate 180 degrees to get a correct reading. As a result people tend to overfill them and MOT testers give you advisories for low oil.

So, another shit design then? Lol. The Honda Accord and other cars currently residing at Beard Towers just use a flat steel dipstick that just shows the oil level regardless. Apart from the Rover 75 KV6. That is hard to read also being blackish plastic at the business end.  Flat shiny steel dipstick does the job, even for the general public*. Buggering about pressing blackish plastic tipped dipsticks on a clean paper towel to actually have a rough idea of oil level not so much. 

[Bobthebeard]

37 minutes ago, tooSavvy said:

Unless it has some origami-esque contortions.... How about an un formed wire coathanger [mark true dip length off original] and carry in the boot ??

Because I can't be arsed, shouldn't need to as just a shit design basically. It's a 19 reg.  Also the car isn't yet mine. On a rent to own scheme from the Taxi company. Although I do care as it will be mine one day and check the offending dipstick twice a week. Just been serviced yesterday so can only hope the oil level will suffice for a while. 

[Tadhg Tiogar]

1 hour ago, Bobthebeard said:

The (engine oil) dipstick design on my Dacia Logan MCV. Renault 1.5 dCI engine IIRC. Impossible to get any kind of meaningful reading of oil level as the oil is wiped off somewhere inside the plastic housing on the way out. One side of the dipstick may* show as a smeary, possibly correct level, the other side has no oil showing. Repeated attempts differ every time. Sometimes both sides are the same, below minimum. I can only assume that there is 'some' oil in there. Can't immediately think of anything much simpler to design than a dipstick, pretty basic concept. No electronic oil level check either as on some other cars with the same engine. So the 'shit design' dipstick is it then. The dipstick assembly looks about as well made as a pair of doll's knickers so will doubtless break soon anyway.

Amusingly this isn't new. The CX Series 2 managed to combine the hard-to-read dipstick markers with an electric level gauge. This gives you a choice between a physical uncertainty as to whether the oil is actually present (especially after an oil change), or an electrical uncertainty. 

[New POD]

40 minutes ago, Raff said:

On my 08 Astra, you're instructed  to warm the engine up to temperature, wait 5 minutes, clean dipstick as usual, reinsert and rotate 180 degrees to get a correct reading. As a result people tend to overfill them and MOT testers give you advisories for low oil.

I think that probably our 11 reg 1.6 Astra is slightly overfilled. 

I checked it when cold, before a long journey on Sunday and was surprised to find it above the max.  You'd expect the oil to be all in the sump if you've not run it.  

[New POD]

48 minutes ago, wuvvum said:

Have you tried swallowing a couple of Calgon tablets?

Not me. 

[Zelandeth]

Bloody stupid electronically latching indicator stalk used on the later Vectras, Signum and probably others.

Tap to turn indicators on, then tap the other way to turn off if they don't self cancel.

Except at least two cars I've been in where this doesn't work and this renders it essentially impossible to manually cancel the indicators...you end up going down the road alternately signalling left and right trying to turn the damned things off.

Also Vauxhall, on a 14 plate Astra in this case...the stop-start system which cut the engine just before you came to rest and wouldn't kick it back in until >5mph.  Fine until you're in a downhill traffic jam and have just been letting gravity do the work until suddenly you find that you have zero brakes and steering that may as well be welded solid.  Possibly the most scary moment I've had in a modern car.

[hairnet]

@cms206 getting a haircut

[TataBobu]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Except at least two cars I've been in where this doesn't work and this renders it essentially impossible to manually cancel the indicators...you end up going down the road alternately signalling left and right trying to turn the damned things off.

In this case you have to do a Windows tune-up: reinitialise the sistem (stop the engione and start again).

[JimH]

No names, no pack drill.

Do you need to start dismantling things to change a headlamp bulb? Your design is shit.

Do you need to remove the entire front end of a car to change the clutch? Your design is shit.

If a drain hole blocks does it wreck the brake servo or  destroys a grand's worth of ECU you hid under the fucking carpet for crying out loud? Your design is shit.

Do you call your handbrake mechanism "electronic" when in actual fact it is a sorry collection of wire rope, springs, plastic gears and a wiper motor from a Renault 12? Your design is shit.

Do you illuminate a red flashing oil can on the dashboard when you actually think it is time for an annual oil change? Your design is shit.

Are you still building cars with the same woeful front suspension design as a 1973 Passat? Your design is really, really shit.

Will a water pump failure take the entire valve train with it? Your design is shit.

 

 

[inconsistant]

3 hours ago, trigger said:

The radio pointing towards the passenger on the Mk2 Marina onwards and Ital, I never understood that! 

This is from 1970s memory so might be wrong, but isn't the Marina's radio slot not car radio shaped either? I'm sure when my dad fitted a radio to ours he had to cut the top right corner off the front of the radio to get it to fit.

[chaseracer]

1 hour ago, Dan the van said:

I think it was the early CX that had the radio fitted vertically in front of the gear lever making it impossible to read.Citroen were quite mad back then tho'.

GS too.  And the handbrake was in the middle of the dash...