Rupert_Ballsack's predictable CROMER shitbox tale (feat. amateur ham-fisted diagnostics)

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Hey gang,

Not been on here much lately as I am decreasingly inclined to interact with other humans generally, but I though you might like to hear about the latest old heap at Castle_Ballsack, if it was a jolly happy story of great success it would be boring right? RIGHT.

So a while back I asked on the 'shite for sale' board if anyone had any ideas or leads on a ~£500 diesel clunker that would do me for a couple of years and replace the old Stilo which after 40,000 miles could do with some money spent on it. A few good suggestions came up but I actually already had an idea what I wanted. A Fiat CROMA!!

Why did I want one of these? Well the main reason is they are surely one of the most shite cars out there of their era (2005-2009 ish). Rare, a bit pointless, hopefully quite comfortable, cheap, and red-hot shite DNA: Its basically a reskinned Vectra C with cheaper switchgear and odd styling. Most have the 1.9 16v diesel engine straight out of a Vectra/Astra/Saab 9-3/Alfa 147/159 and probably several others.

 

Theres not loads about, so i kept an eye on eBay and facebook and eventually one came up in Nottingham, not too far from me. It looked clean and was up for £550, with a short MOT though. After a week it came down to £450 so I went to have a look. I had a short test drive and it seemed OK, a few clonks from the suspension but the engine seemed alright, only one warning light for a problem with the reversing sensors and it was otherwise very clean and tidy. SO we shook on £400 and I drove it home a couple of days later.

Took it for an MOT which it failed on rear 'Banana arms' (upper suspension arms) which are common to the Vectra and cheap to buy, plus a number plate light. Also got advisories for a minor leak on the exhaust flexi and an inner track rod balljoint.

I set on fixing this lot then got sent off to China for a week with work so I lost my re-test slot annoyingly. When i got back i fixed everything including the advisories, and took it for another test which it passed with a clean bill. So then i insured it and started driving it 100 miles/day to work. Lets have a look at it:

Its quite a tidy old thing, seems to be the original paint all over. Got a few odd scratches and marks but no real rust to speak of.

The interior is quite pleasant, you sit quite high up with good lumbar support and the gearlever is high up and falls to hand quite well. Its nice and light in there. The cover is missing off the fusebox cos I had had the old Delphi diagnostic doofer plugged in to help sort the problem with the reversing sensors (bought a new one off ebay for about £8). I havent fathomed out how to get an AUX in wire into the factory stereo yet which is annoying as its limiting my podcast throughput.

The ignition key lives between the seats, which presumably is a bit of Saab 9-3 technology thats inexplicably got carried over. (The keys are not quite the same though). ONe problem I do seem to be battling with is that the key fob seems to lose its synchronisation overnight. You can still get in the car the next morning with the emergency metal key, and when you put the placca key in the ignition it re-syncs and the fob then works for the rest of the day. Very weird (and annoying).

Something thats really shit is the boot, its obviously an estate car but there is a massive step across the boot floor when you fold the seats down. Lousy for carting wardrobes or whatever.

Anyway I got it on the road. With the new suspension bits it rides really well, but I was a bit disappointed with how it went. 150bhp ought to push it along quite well but it felt a bit asthmatic, it went OK in 3rd and 4th gear but was defo not as lively as the Stilo which has 30bhp less. I plugged in the diag machine but there were no faults logged with the engine so I just assumed it was bogged down by its excessive weight (1600kg seemingly). Also despite driving like a massive ponce and making good use of the marvellous 6th gear I could not get beyond 40mpg which is a bit shit.

Over the course of the week I read up on these engines and their seemingly endless problems with clogged up EGR systems and wanky swirl flaps in the inlet manifold. The manifolds seemingly wear out for fun and cost £180 for a replacement, plus its quite a war to fit it. I'd noticed a slight hiss or whistle from the turbo under boost which the Stilo doesnt have, and I expected that would disappear with the new front pipe but you can still hear it a bit. Now I'm a bit wiser I think thats a boost leak round the swirl flap spindles.  Anyway after about 400 miles, during which I was on permanent alert for funny noises and behaviour, you can guess what happened:

 

Check engine light, and almost zero turbo boost. Uuuurrrggghh. I had kept the insurance and tax on the Stilo so today I was back driving it and the Croma is sat on the drive awaiting investigation.

My plan is to remove the EGR valve, clean and free it (if its seized which is supposedly quite common), fit a restrictor on the EGR valve which seems to be a very popular mod and clean out the throttle body and MAP sensor. I'll clear the fault and see what that gives. I also pulled off the placca cover off the top of the engine:

You cant really see it on here but I looked at the mechanism that operates these swirl flaps on the inlet manifold. Predictably it was all disconnected and broken!!! Its all little tiny placca balljoints and crank arms and doesnt look like it would survive a week's commuting, never mind 112,000 miles. So that is gonna need looking at too. Seemingly, official Pierburg manifolds you buy now are a bit better engineered than originals and last a bit longer but theyre still quite a big operation to swap out. I also found out that the cam belt is 40,000 miles/10 yrs old so that needs looking at too really. Thats all looking like £300 worth of parts before I've even started!!!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pierburg-Saab-9-3-9-5-Fiat-Alfa-Romeo-159-1-9-Inlet-Intake-Manifold-7-00373-12/303226983604?epid=252118112&hash=item4699bc94b4:g:e5gAAOSwSQFdLuxp

Ah well thats shite livin' innit. You buy a 'new car' and end up lumbering yourself with a shitload of work that now needs doing urgently. I havent fallen in love with this car yet but then again I dont feel its had a proper evaluation because I dont think the engine has been running properly since I've had it. I think this car is going to teach me how to use that Delphi diagnostic computer properly, I can see it getting a serious workout on this POS.

Anyway I'm off to China again on Sunday so I will do some proper investigation next weekend. Will let you know what I find. Le sigh......

 

[Heidel_Kakao]

Liked for Bollocks content not broken Fiat

[Cavcraft]

That 150 lump ought to be pulling that along very nicely. Hopefully piss arsing about with the EGR will sort that for you. 

[cort16]

Did this car not nearly put Fiat out of business? Only the launch of the 500 dragged them from the brink of going down the toilet.

Good luck with it these are platinum modern shite. 

[J-T]

I think there’s a lad on here recently done the exact same job on a Saab, may be worth a read.

These manifolds can be removed without disturbing the belt by locking the fuel pump sprocket but if it needs a belt anyway...

Are you planning on blanking the swirl flaps? There’s a kit you can buy for these Pierburg manifolds but I always think they look a bit shit, plugs with an O ring just pressed in. Can see them popping out after a bit.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Can't you just* source another Argenta? At least they looked quite pretty.

This thing does look a strong contender for testing your diagnostic whatsit however. 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I read that these were surprisingly un-catastrophic for Fiat because really theyre just a new outer skin and wiring loom on top of a Vectra, so cheap to get to market. All the parts i've bought for it so far have been Vectra items!!! It really is just a reskin. I thought 'Fiat know how to make a car fun to drive, I'm sure they will have had a fiddle with the chassis' but its properly wooden to drive, zero involvement at all. Just as I imagine a Vectra C diesel to be like!!!

The Stilo is actually quite a decent steer and it pisses all over this when it comes to hooning along the Uttoxeter-Stafford A-road.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yeah the manifold blanks look like a bit of a bodge to me. The manifold and head castings must be hugely complicated by having those flaps there, so there must be a decent benefit to having 'em. I reckon I will try to get it working properly, You can get an upgraded bar thing that links all the flaps together, which uses brass ball sockets instead of wanky plastic ones, might look into whether those bring any advantage.

 

[vulgalour]

Calling someone a Swirl Flap should be a better insult than it is, given how frigging useless they are at doing anything other than breaking and getting in the way.

[SiC]

I fixed my swirlflap arm on my Saab 9-3 back in ~2011 with number plate caps. You can get better engineered solutions now - like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-VAUXHALL-SAAB-ALFA-Z19DTH-1-9CDTi-TiD-JTD-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-SWIRL-FLAP-ROD/231707948220?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall&epid=16025892869&hash=item35f2deb4bc:g:RAEAAOSwFrtbNLJb

When I did it, it was quite remarkable how much power came back and how lively it was. I did another 25k with numberplate caps stuck on, until the car was rear ended and written off. Sod removing the fuel pump, cambelt and the like to replace the manifold. I believe @dozeydustman replaced his on the driveway though.

That key in the Saab would loose sync if you pushed the buttons like 5 times or something when out of range of the car. Maybe the rubber is perished or something and pushing the buttons?

[bramz7]

I did tell you that an eastern European chap told me that the Croma was the worst car he had ever owned, but fair play to you actually getting one and pulling it apart. 

 

Pretty sure you can get a Stilo with the 150 engine though, although most are 3 doors. 

[timolloyd]

Bollox content is the best - keep it coming!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yeah you certainly did Bramz. The problem is that if someone tells me a car is REALLY SHIT, that just makes me want it more to see just how low the bar can go!!!!

 

[bramz7]

I get that, completely. To be fair I'd be lying if I said I haven't considered one, and to be honest, this thread doesn't actually put me off.

[Uncle Jimmy]

Rip the engine out and 'drop' a Fiat twin cam in.

[paulplom]

Following with interest. My saab 9-5 has the same engine and is currently doing a fiat. Mine's the 150 and really flies. Yours must have something wrong. I'm averaging early 50's as well. I hope it's not too painful for you.

[Split_Pin]

Every day is a school day! I didn't know that the Vectra C platform found it's way to so many different places. Suppose it makes sense now though, what with the GM connection.

Hope you gel with it at some point.

[Dirk Diggler]

There were a few of these in use as police cars in Dublin until 2015 ish; don't think I ever saw one not in garda livery

[garethj]

Welcome back, Bo11.  A slightly fucked version of an oddball car that’s a mix of Fiat and Vectra?  It’s like a stick of rock, it’s got shite running right the way through it?

[cort16]

I found this quote in a old fleet magazine article

"JUST three months ago, Fiat announced a new business plan for the UK which will see it focus on key models – the Panda and Punto. So news that it is set to launch the new Croma into the UK seems a little confusing.

It’s therefore no surprise that volume expectations are fairly modest, with a predicted 5,000 to 6,000 sales in its first full year."

on wiki pedia

"In February 2007, Fiat UK announced that the Croma would no longer be generally available in the United Kingdom, after less than 900 were sold in the whole of 2005."

It still did better than the Renault Avantime mind you.

[dozeydustman]

  On 13/09/2019 at 22:32, J-T said:

I think there’s a lad on here recently done the exact same job on a Saab, may be worth a read.

These manifolds can be removed without disturbing the belt by locking the fuel pump sprocket but if it needs a belt anyway...

Are you planning on blanking the swirl flaps? There’s a kit you can buy for these Pierburg manifolds but I always think they look a bit shit, plugs with an O ring just pressed in. Can see them popping out after a bit.

Expand  

That was me - details can be found here. You can lock the injector pump in place without removing the cam belt using a couple of the Allen/torx bolts from the top cam belt cover. It's a 22mm nut, and may require a tap with a Longbridge screwdriver. It took me 2 days to do because the HBOL wasn't entirely accurate, and I've not worked on a common rail diesel before. And I have huge hands to get in small places. Once the pump is off access is pretty good. Pages 5 & 6 of my thread. You will need Torx bits and sockets.

  On 13/09/2019 at 22:47, SiC said:

I fixed my swirlflap arm on my Saab 9-3 back in ~2011 with number plate caps. You can get better engineered solutions now - like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/For-VAUXHALL-SAAB-ALFA-Z19DTH-1-9CDTi-TiD-JTD-INTAKE-MANIFOLD-SWIRL-FLAP-ROD/231707948220?fits=Car+Make%3AVauxhall&epid=16025892869&hash=item35f2deb4bc:g:RAEAAOSwFrtbNLJb

When I did it, it was quite remarkable how much power came back and how lively it was. I did another 25k with numberplate caps stuck on, until the car was rear ended and written off. Sod removing the fuel pump, cambelt and the like to replace the manifold. I believe @dozeydustman replaced his on the driveway though.

That key in the Saab would loose sync if you pushed the buttons like 5 times or something when out of range of the car. Maybe the rubber is perished or something and pushing the buttons?

Expand  

If it's just the rod has come off, then you can get away with what @SiC has done, however in my case the swirl flaps were well and truly gubbed. I've still got the old manifold and I was going to clean it up and blank the holes where the spindles go. A lot of Fiat/Alfa/GM specialist seem to do this; the local Saab specialist recommend doing this as well.

I'm not sure on the current legalities of removing the EGR system, it would appear that if it can be done without the MoT inspector seeing it's been tampered with you'll get away with it. Some googling produced this ☟

  Quote

Car Mechanics asked the DVSA for their response to fitting an EGR blanking valve and they said : "DVSA's priority is to help you keep your vehicle safe to drive, ensuring that it meets required roadworthiness and environmental standards. Vehicles may fail the MoT where emissions control equipment has been tampered with but irrespective of the MoT such modification is an offence*. DVSA continues to work with DfT to persue such offences, including taking disciplinary action against any MoT garages found to be conducting modifications."

* Road vehicles (construction and use) regulations (Regulation 61a(3)). Removal of an EGR valve, diesel particulate filter etc. will almost invariably contravene these requirements, making the vehicle illegal for road use. The potential penalties for failing to comply with Regulation 61a are fines of upto £1000 for a car or £2500 for a light goods vehicle.

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[dollywobbler]

Bollox and dodgy flaps FTW.

[bramz7]

All full of promise at this PR shot though. The Jamaican Bobsleigh team also feature as they were being sponsored by Fiat for the 2006 Winter Olympics in Torino.....yet they didn't qualify for the event. See, the Croma was bad news from day one.

[stonedagain]

  On 13/09/2019 at 22:36, Mr_Bo11ox said:

Yeah the manifold blanks look like a bit of a bodge to me. The manifold and head castings must be hugely complicated by having those flaps there, so there must be a decent benefit to having 'em. I reckon I will try to get it working properly, You can get an upgraded bar thing that links all the flaps together, which uses brass ball sockets instead of wanky plastic ones, might look into whether those bring any advantage.

 

Expand  

I fitted one of those kits to a Vectra C , a bit fiddly to fit but it was spot on.

[wuvvum]

I had a Saab 9-3 with the same engine which kept going into limp mode - that was due to a gunked up throttle body, half an hour and £2.99 for a can of cleaner and normal service was resumed.  That didn't have the problem with the floppy pissflaps though admittedly.

[chaseracer]

  On 13/09/2019 at 22:33, Mr_Bo11ox said:

...hooning along the Uttoxeter-Stafford A-road.

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Always a favourite when I was working schools IT out of Hixon with Floatylight.

[Mrcento]

  On 13/09/2019 at 22:27, cort16 said:

Did this car not nearly put Fiat out of business? Only the launch of the 500 dragged them from the brink of going down the toilet.

Good luck with it these are platinum modern shite. 

Expand  

It was the Stilo that almost did them in. They threw bucketloads of cash at its development to try and make it a VW rival. It was a huge flop on the investment and they made a huge loss. Which is why they ended up jumping into bed with GM for platform sharing with the Grande Punto/Corsa, Bravo/Astra and Croma/Vec C.

 

The croma seemed to sell fairly well abroad, but not here. Probably because big Fiats just never do well here and the Croma wasn't really anything you could label, it's too upright for an estate (and not quite as practical), but a bit too big for a mini MPV like a Scenic, and not enough seats to be considered v a Grand Scenic or Zafira.

I like them tbh. Just never any for sale when i've been in the market for something. They only ever come up when i've got 2 or 3 cars.

[Dave_Q]

Hey Bollox, for one of these you probably want a £5 eBay VCDS cable and multiecuscan (free download). Should do a bit more than the Delphi thing.

On your no power/noise situation, check the boost hoses. I had a Multipla with a 120 MJet engine with similar noise/power issues, turned out to be a split in the hose from intercooler to inlet. It was a relatively big bucks part but I got one that was close enough and bodged it.

On the flaps, I think they are only used to reduce NOx at a specific low load point in the old emissions cycle and can be binned with no penalty to mpg, performance or MOT.

[Noel Tidybeard]

they are a curiously 'andsome bloater

[Jim Bell]

Fix It Again Testes. 

 

7/20 thus far. Will read again.