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Mr_Bo11ox

Rupert_Ballsack's predictable CROMER shitbox tale (feat. amateur ham-fisted diagnostics)

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For what it's worth when I had the Multipla that Bangernomics now has it used to regularly bing on the EML with an EGR code (because the valve was electrically dead) but it never affected the driving one jot. 

So ignoring the light and just knocking it off at MOT time could be an option as well. 

I don't think it has any feedback of the type suggested by Jonny, it's a 2 wire solenoid controlled by PWM, any feedback would be via the ECU looking at the amount of air through the MAF and checking if it's within expected levels.

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These DPFs suck donkey dong don’t they.  I had mine regened at the garage a few months back because it was saying it was full (40g of ash), not that I had noticed with any error messages (car was in for something else).  

Had the car back in the garage today for a general “software update” (first time I’ve ever had a car needing this) and they tell me another regen was required as the ash level was 38g.  What!  It’s only been 10k miles since the last forced one and 6.5k of those have been bombing round Europe in 10 weeks (not me!).  

In the meantime I’ve been noticing it’s been doing a regen in use every 500 miles or so which the garage think is too frequent.  Could be my commute is too short (15 miles each way) but it gets a run to Birmingham and back (240 miles) at least once a month.  Oh, and aftermarket DPFs are apparently all shite, the garage recommend ultrasonic cleaning the original.

TL:DR keep up the good work, modern diesels are crap.

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2 minutes ago, r.welfare said:

TL:DR keep up the good work, modern diesels are crap.

Early generation DPFs are crap. The first lot of cars with them had it stuck where ever they could fit something that gets super hot. Cars that designed for DPFs from the get go had them closely coupled on to the manifold. This allowed them to get got super quick and not cool off easily.

Hence why my 2010 A4 can happily regen at 20mph and never been replaced in over 186k miles.

Admittedly they can fuck up pretty quick when the engine has problems and make it smokier. E.g. leaky injectors, turbo seals, egr, etc 

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6 minutes ago, SiC said:

Hence why my 2010 A4 can happily regen at 20mph and never been replaced in over 186k miles.

Interesting, my 2009 Touran (164k miles) needs a minimum of 37mph to regen.  Forum VAG 1.9TDI whisperer “bigfella2” suggests it’s not suited to the DPF, sounds like your later 2.0 is.  One assumes the Fiat 1.9 is similar to the VW in this respect.  Carry on!

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I work for vauxhall, back in the day we were literally changing 10 egr valves a day on 1.9 engines. P2279, P0400, and P0101 were the common egr codes. The ecu uses the masair flow reading on overrun, it looks for it dropping this means the egr has opened, with tech 2 connected we used to actuate the egr, with it closed you wanted a reading close to 50, when you open it it should drop to late teens. Split vac pipe will cause loss power too, check pipes from vac pump to boost controller and to waistgate 

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I don’t really understand how some variants of this engine were lumbered with a DPF and some weren’t. Mine was ‘09 and didn’t have one, which must surely make it one of the last diesels not to? Can emissions vary that much between each type of car it was fitted to that some are pushed over whatever limit there was for DPFerry? 

I know I’m like a stuck record but if it was me I wouldn’t want that lovely new manifold full of shite again after a few months. Map out, blank off, be happy. Bloody horrible things.

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I don’t really understand how some variants of this engine were lumbered with a DPF and some weren’t. Mine was ‘09 and didn’t have one, which must surely make it one of the last diesels not to? Can emissions vary that much between each type of car it was fitted to that some are pushed over whatever limit there was for DPFerry? 

I know I’m like a stuck record but if it was me I wouldn’t want that lovely new manifold full of shite again after a few months. Map out, blank off, be happy. Bloody horrible things.

It does seem a bit random, my understanding is that DPFs weren't actually required to hit the particle limits until Euro 5 (2009ish) but some cars got them much earlier.

 

Possibly because the greenness was a selling point (was tax slightly lower?) or possibly because the car/engine combo couldn't hit Euro 4 without one (eg heavy car, auto transmission, or a high soot engine)

 

They were allowed to continue registering old stock at Euro 4 for a year afterwards, my Scudo is 2010 reg but has a euro 4 engine with no DPF, yet other engines/ratings of the same model at the same time did have one.

 

In the case of the CROMER I would be well tempted to get it gutted and mapped out as I've seen improvements in mpg in the past on early DPF cars.

 

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I don’t fancy gutting the DPF on this thing. My target is to just get it to work as intended by Fiat. If I then conclude its shite (entirely possible) I suppose I will get rid of it and call it a life lesson!!!

 

It drove to work spot on this morning but I am really struggling to coax it beyond 42mpg average. Maybe that’s all I can reasonably expect if it is strangled by a crummy emissions control setup (and also, it weighs over 1.5 tonnes the fat bastard). The MOT history suggests its had very little use in the last few years, so maybe it will clear its lungs out a bit if it travels 100 miles/day for a few weeks which might help. Presumably the cylinder head ports are quite heavily choked up with shid like the manifold was. Also I know the tracking is a bit out since I did the inner TRE joint, it all goes in the mix doesn’t it.

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TBH 42mpg average doesn't sound too far out for one of these - my Saab with the same engine never did more than 45, and that was a lighter car.  They're not nearly as efficient as the 8-valve version in my experience.

Speaking of which, are you still hanging on to the Stilo as a backup in case the Cromer sharts itself again?

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I've seen variance in MPG reported a lot on these engines. I even remember at a place I worked had two Saab 9-3 that came out of the same production lot, one did low 40s and the other did low 50s. They tried swapping cars to see if it was driving style but no difference in fuel consumption. 

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I can't see how you're getting only 42mpg from the Chromer Senor cahunas, the now-roffled Saab did 45 around town and 55-60 on a run, though when it regenerated it would drop to around 35-40.

20 minutes ago, Ian_Fearn said:

Are there any non-invasive (non snake oil) cleaning methods recommended on here. Something like Cataclean or similar?

 

Without removing it, I don't think so. If you're willing to remove it from the car a steam clean by all accounts works wonders. A lot of chain garages do a DPF deep clean for around £75

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If it’s been sat around for lengthy periods, is it possible there’s some sort of brake binding issue going on that’s holding it back a bit? Explaining both dull performance and unimpressive fuel economy. 
 

Excessive heat coming off the calipers after a run?

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There might be actually, its got some funny 'hill holder' gizmo on it where if you are stopped on a hill with your foot on the brake, when you release the footbrake theres a 5-sec delay before the brakes come off UNLESS it detects you're trying to move forward, in which case it releases them immediately. I do keep meaning to check if I've got a 'hot wheel' but I keep forgetting....

Latest stats just in: economy now at 42.6mpg y0 with 2 x EGR fault resets today

Also transferred the key fob innards into a new casing yesterday so no more holey fob buttons.... hasn't fixed the overnight loss of key synchronisation annoyingly, so I'm still 'breaking in' through the passenger door every morning at 6.45 am on my driveway. Also its a repro key casing, not genuine Fiat, and is a rubbish fit in the key slot.... Le sigh

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The DPF is a bit of a monster under the bonnet on modern diesels. I was told the other day some of them won't regen unless you have a quarter of a tank of diesel (I've no idea if this is true)

Mazda diesels seems to get caught in a regen loop of death that ends up filling the sump with diesel. They even have built in high oil level detections so they won't start if the oil level starts tocreep up. The issue on newer stuff like my Citroen is, is they're now mot'd based on the stats the factory published so if you knock the DPF out it'll never hit those levels and it won't get through it's MOT.

Fair play for investing in it.  I remember looking at them when they were fairly new and found them pretty deeply unappealing compared to what else you could get for similar money.

 

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On 10/8/2019 at 9:34 PM, J-T said:

I don’t really understand how some variants of this engine were lumbered with a DPF and some weren’t. Mine was ‘09 and didn’t have one, which must surely make it one of the last diesels not to? Can emissions vary that much between each type of car it was fitted to that some are pushed over whatever limit there was for DPFerry? 

I know I’m like a stuck record but if it was me I wouldn’t want that lovely new manifold full of shite again after a few months. Map out, blank off, be happy. Bloody horrible things.

Herr Testicles' difficulties seem to be with the EGR rather than the DPF, EGR is for reducing oxides of nitrogen(NOx) content of the exhaust which is for smog/acid rain control whereas the DPF is to reduce the congestion of lungs with clag.

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15 hours ago, cort16 said:

The issue on newer stuff like my Citroen is, is they're now mot'd based on the stats the factory published so if you knock the DPF out it'll never hit those levels and it won't get through it's MOT.

Easy way around that is to accidentally* slip whilst using an angle grinder or similar and render illegible the bit of the VIN plate which says what the manufacturer's levels are.

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How about an update on the KRONA?

IMG_20191011_131717404.jpg

So I've done nearly 2000 miles in this thing now with no more breakdowns or other nasty surprises. I've still got an EML on though sadly, with this 'EGR Valve Check - Present' fault code behind it. I did buy one of those new EGR valve connectors and soldered it in:

IMG_20191027_113352868.jpg

I thought I was onto a winner when I drove down to Heanor with no sign of the EML, but it popped up again on the way back home. It doesnt seem to affect the performance at all so I'm less stressed about it now, but it does bother me, so yesterday I spent £15 on a secondhand EGR valve off eBay. Bit pikey to buy a used one of them, but i dont want to spend £70 on a new one and I dont want to buy a chonky chinese repro off eBay either (Admittedly I might end up with one anyway eh, I suppose we'll see when it arrives)

 

Fuel economy is still poor at around 42-43mpg averaged over a couple of tanks. I was hoping this might pick up with use, but try as I might, I just cant coax any more than that out of it. I did notice today that one rear wheel is warmer than the other so I might have a sticky brake although it doesnt particularly feel it while driving and it doesnt stink. I will have a look at it this at the weekend (ordered a new hose just in case its that). Low-40's is perhaps not a terrible MPG for a big car like this, but i'm doing 500 miles a week so I'll be paying something like an extra £80/month in juice to drive this over what the Stilo cost!!!! In thsoe terms it doesnt seem such a great deal. I think a modernish common-rail diesel car, being used for long journeys, thats not a massive people carrier or whatever, should do more than that. I reckon a decent petrol 2-litre beater could get 42mpg with this kind of use.

 

Another battle I'm having with it is the friggin seat, which is giving me chronic backache!!! At first i thought it was quite comfortable, but 2000 miles later I'm properly crippled. I've got the lumbar support cranked up to the max but its bad. I've got a flippin rolled-up towel down my back which looks like some sort of incontinence protection but it just gives a bit of extra support that the flat seat back fails to provide. I did wonder if some Saab 9-3 front seats would go in, I imagine they would bolt in and would probably be designed with a little more ergonomic thought. Bet i'd get into a nightmare of airbag wiring though.

IMG_20191028_172238282.jpg

 

You can probably tell that I really want to like this car, but its not making it easy for me. All i really want out of a car is that its comfortable, economical, reliable, and shite. This is certainly mega shite but its struggling a bit on the other 3 measures. A big obscure European diesel wagon should be right up my street but I still have not decided if I even like it. I feel I still havent got it 100% how Fiat wanted it, which is stopping me from really making my mind up about it. Maybe when I am sure the brakes are not sticking on, and the EML is staying off properly I will finally feel like I can judge it.

Upsides of this car are its very quiet and refined, its absolutely magic in 6th gear on the dual carriageway. Pretty much everything works on it, the factory stereo is excellent, it looks quite tidy and its the newest car I've ever had.

Here it is in Waitrose car park with a loaf of wanky overpriced bread on its roof.

IMG_20191028_172141920.jpg

I shall carry on using this anyway for the foreseeable, and keep chipping away sorting out its foibles in the hope of getting to some sort of proper sustainable Karma with it!!

 

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I didn't even know these were a thing until I read this thread... 

 

I like how it looks like it was designed by opening a 3/4 angle photo of a mk5 Golf in photoshop then stretching it horizontally by about 15%.

 

More bollocks, pls :)

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On ‎10‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 9:54 PM, cort16 said:

The DPF is a bit of a monster under the bonnet on modern diesels. I was told the other day some of them won't regen unless you have a quarter of a tank of diesel (I've no idea if this is true)

Mazda diesels seems to get caught in a regen loop of death that ends up filling the sump with diesel. They even have built in high oil level detections so they won't start if the oil level starts tocreep up. The issue on newer stuff like my Citroen is, is they're now mot'd based on the stats the factory published so if you knock the DPF out it'll never hit those levels and it won't get through it's MOT.

Fair play for investing in it.  I remember looking at them when they were fairly new and found them pretty deeply unappealing compared to what else you could get for similar money.

 

...the mazdas cant cope with anything above '80-85%' clagged up DPF - yes the injectors seem to fail n leak off, n the EGR snuffs it round this time; some mazda dealerships will change the EGR n fit new injectors n tell the customer, that they are not driving it long enough for the Reg'gen to kick in, after they've reset all after new injectors etc- n tell them to drive on an otherwise pointless 70 mile round tripp once a week to 'clean out n regen' (knowing they'll seew the customer gain very soon!) - or  'off the record' a technician might recommend one of the 'DPF washout' outfits.... all of that lasts about 4-6k Miles before it goes into limp mode again, n the has to owner 'rinse n repeat' DPF regen 'ground'hog day' processes or swallow the cost of a new DPF... I know of a mate who's mrs had the DPF stolen from under the car n he bought a used one from  stoved car at a breakers n its still working fine for him...

Ive done a few DPF gut out jobs; on the actual opening up n gutting out' the DPF innards - all ive seen  hopelessly clogged n you'd wonder how the car exhaled at all with all the clagg... if you get the right 'car software keyboard tapper' to remap etc after its been gutted; the car is transformed n is hugely reliable afterwards, with lots more power n MPG....

...from what ive seen 170-200K is the usual life of the DPF but that's reduced if its been a short run commuter/city based car....

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1 hour ago, Mr_Bo11ox said:

 

IMG_20191028_172238282.jpg

You can probably tell that I really want to like this car, but its not making it easy for me. All i really want out of a car is that its comfortable, economical, reliable, and shite.

<snip>

I shall carry on using this anyway for the foreseeable, and keep chipping away sorting out its foibles in the hope of getting to some sort of proper sustainable Karma with it!!

I'd say sack it off, fairly soon. Even if you get it to where Fiat intended it to be, I doubt it'll suddenly do 50+ mpg and you'll still be a bit "meh" with it but that picture tells a story and it certainly won't do your back any good! 

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