Sold Stanky's Geep - fire sale

[Stanky]

A bit more work today on the Geep, I intend to try getting the timing fixed and getting it running with help from a friend tomorrow, so I need to sort out fuel filters as I don't know what condition the fuel lines are in. I also received the air filter from Mat_the_cat in the post this week, and bought a posh* fuel filler cap too.

 

Parts, ASSEMBLE!

 

So, first up, the fuel cap. Not hugely exciting, but the existing arrangement was a bit sub-par

 

 

Universal fuel filler cap is suitably universal

 

 

Went in OK, comes out OK. Job done.

 

Next up, the fuel filter.

 

I got a set of these cheapy ones from a motor factor in the week. £1.05 each. I imagine they will get pretty grotty so wanted something disposable for now

 

 

The existing arrangement was a bit ropey

 

 

Its not that clear, but there is an 8mm fuel hose running up the chassis and into the fuel pump. I cut off the last 30cm of this and squidged the fuel filter in the end of the hose, and secured it with a jubilee clip. Then I cut off about 30cm of new 8mm fuel hose, fitted a jubilee clip over it and jammed the filter onto it and did up the clip, making sure the direction arrow was right.

 

 

Then ran it under the heater hose, around 180 degrees into the 'In' side of the fuel pump, again securing it with a jubilee clip that was supplied with the fuel hose

 

 

So, that should filter the worst of the grot thats living in the fuel line from the tank to the pump out, while being relatively accessible to change when it inevitably fills up with filth. Long-term I want to redo the fuel line tank to pump completely, and fit a filter at the tank end. For now though I know the pipework post-filter is clean so this will do.

 

I have a second filter in case this one gunks up quicker than anticipated. Next i will go and buy a couple of jerry cans of pez to slosh into the tank for testing purposes. I'd also like to replace the hose that runs from fuel pump out to carb in, but this can wait for now. Next step is to try and get it running and make sure the engine isn't terminally borked.

 

Oh, yeah, this is the old air filter

 

 

it used to have foam over the mesh but it turned to dust as soon as i touched it and I thought that the suction of the engine would just end up ingesting all the foam so I've removed it for now. I need to get hold of an elbow for the new filter but that should be reasonably easy. There is loads of room in the engine bay so I'll mount it at the back somewhere I think.

[Guest Hooli]

Seeing that fuel pump has reminded me of something.

 

Undo the screw on top & I'm pretty sure there is a filter in there too.

[Mally]

 

 

I need to get hold of an elbow for the new filter but that should be reasonably easy. There is loads of room in the engine bay so I'll mount it at the back somewhere I think.

 

Stop pussying about, just chop a big hole in the bonnet and let the air cleaner stick out like wat we do!

 

[Eddie Honda]

and bought a posh* fuel filler cap too.

 

It's better than a rag in the temporary sense but:

 

MOT RfR 7.2.4b: A fuel tank cap/filler neck sealing device: does not fasten/close securely: •   by a positive means, and •   such that pressure is not maintained on the sealing arrangement

 

That thing doesn't close by "positive means".

 

The universal cap that claims to meet the positive means and pressure on the seal test looks like this:

 

 

However, whatever the claims, it has to on the day on the particular car in question actually do the two things referred to. http://forums.motester.co.uk/forum4/2046.html It still might Fail, or will be Pass and Advisory.

 

AS MOT testers whaddayerthink?

[dollywobbler]

Agreed it's a good upgrade for now, but not suitable for road use.

 

Not sure I'm qualified to talk about spark plugs now, as the Invacar won't behave today. Got it running by fitting a pair stolen from my 2CV, so I guess that (and the Lexus recently) confirms that spark plugs are important. A fresh set may help. Even if they don't, it means you can swap them out if flooding occurs while trying to get it to run.

[bigfella2]

Doesn't the fuel cap have to lock, or if not, it has to live behind a lockable fuel flap to pass an mot. Not mot man so could be talking shite though.

[Guest Hooli]

Not lock, but seal.

[Timewaster]

Geep Monday morning misery...

 

Tuesday trial

 

Wednesday when will it go?

 

Thursday thinking....

 

Friday Fires!

 

Saturday Celebrate.

 

Sunday Smugness.

Mystic Meg I aint.

 

Maybe next week.

[Eddie Honda]

Doesn't the fuel cap have to lock, or if not, it has to live behind a lockable fuel flap to pass an mot.

 

Nah, you can have a twist and seal without a flap or a lock. Plenty of olden days cars did.

[320touring]

Again, good work, and logical too.

 

I hope you see the fruits of your labour tomorrow:)

[Stanky]

Whatever happens, there will be videos. Potentially profane ones.

[Stanky]

Excitement! Progress! Regress! Hypothermia! Blood! Shopping Lists!

 

A friend came over this morning to assist me as I'd run out of knowledge and talent with the non-starting lolz. He knows a lot more about these things than I ever will so hopes were high.

 

To begin with we drank tea then went to assess the situation. The distributor needed to be wiggled to alter the timing, as that was supect #1, however a combination of it having been done up previously by Geoff Capes and the onset of rust in the bolt caused some frustration. Eventually we managed to loosen it off enough (its really fiddly to get at) to get 60 degrees of movement on the distributor. We hooked up a temporary fuel supply from a jerry can and cranked it over.

 

The initial diagnosis was that the starter was turning way too slowly to get the engine to fire. We tried another battery in case the one he'd fitted was a bit lethargic but the same result occurred. This pointed to the starter being unhappy. We removed it to have a look.

 

 

I've had this apart before, and so has someone else. It looks like the magnets in the housing have been painted brown for some reason, and there is a ring of quite serious rubbing on the spindle section. I'd rubbed it down with fine sandpaper here, but it's still very visible. We also cleaned out the brown paint with a file and put it back together.

 

Next up we pulled out the plugs and tried turning it over like that, it spun happily and the spark plugs were firing away, but once back together it became very sluggish again. Suspicion is the starter is kippered and drawing a massive current to spin because its in such a state. Thats why the engine won't fire.

 

I have a feeling that the starter may actually originate from an 1100cc crossflow engine too - it's a Lucas 5148E I think

 

 

To add to the misery, the commutator is severely worn down - the copper section should cover the splined section, this is 90% worn away

 

 

So stage 1 is to buy a new starter motor. Anyone got anything promising for a 1600cc crossflow?

 

With the non-starting issue blocked, we moved on to brakes. I removed the clevis pin from the pedal end so we could remove the master cylinder which seemed to be seized. In the process I managed to stab myself through the thumb with a pair of needle-nose pliers. In my experience you're not doing it properly until there is at least some of your blood all over whatever it is you're trying to fix so I viewed this positively.

 

The master cylinder was unbolted from its bracket, the brake unions removed - one of which put up an almighty struggle - and we had a good look at what we had to play with.

 

 

The plastic bit was in OK shape, but the fluid had the consistency of glue. We removed this from the cylinder by prising it up with a screwdriver. It is held in with barbed plastic ends fitted into rubber bungs. All of this was OK so we put it to one side.

 

 

Next up was the cylinder itself. The piston moved, but wasn't able to come out the bore due to corrosion at the open end. We though that if we pushed it in and out enough with lubrication from some fresh-ish DOT4 it might come out and we could see what was what. to try and force it out we adapted some percussive maintainance with a hammer, this worked really well, right up to the point this happened

 

 

OH_DEAR

 

yeah, thats busted. Never mind, I thought it was scrap anyway so this just confirms it. Action #2 is to find a new master cylinder. Anyone got either a Girling 74660039 or a Girling 64066218 master cylinder by any chance?

 

Additionally we noticed that the cables from battery to starter were getting quite warm. These have now been removed and I need to source some new, thicker ones, plus an extra earth. I'm trying to salvage the clamps on the ends of these ones if I can, but no big deal if I need new ones TBH.

 

We're hopeful that with a fully enthusiastic starter motor the engine should fire. It is certainly getting fuel to the plugs, and sparks fine, although the manky starter is eating all the current up. I'm off to ebay now to try and get a starter motor, brake master cylinder, fat cable and ideally some HT lead since these look to have had their day. Further exciting updates to follow.

[Mally]

Would think the batt cable is 'fat' enough.

Either bad end connections or duff Starter motor likely reason for getting hot.

I'd get it running before wasting cash getting it to stop.

Unless you fancy dragging it down the street which is what I'd probably do.

[danthecapriman]

The battery leads will get hot if there's excessive load being put through them, like your doing by constant cranking and the starter being fucked! Replace or refurbish the starter and it should all be fine.

 

Shame the master cylinder is dead though! They're unobtainium now...

 

Good progress though. Sort the starter and your rocking!

[mitsisigma01]

 

"Shame the master cylinder is dead though! They're unobtainium now"

Surely there must be a pattern part available from Chinaland?

[Talbot]

As far as the master cylinder is concerned... this is a kit car.. fit anything that fits in the gap.  You could probably get a servo and master cylinder from the scrappies for a tenner.  From *anything*.  As long as it's dual circuit and uses the same type fitting, who give a fig if it's from the original donor vehicle or not?

 

How quickly does the starter actually wind the engine over?  Videeeoooow needed!

[danthecapriman]

"Shame the master cylinder is dead though! They're unobtainium now"

Surely there must be a pattern part available from Chinaland?

Not for that type unfortunately. It's the same as my Capri one and I needed one a few years back, found absolutely sod all available apart from a recon kit. That only works if the base casting isn't damaged or too badly corroded.

You can get the earlier single port type new, like some mk1 Capris etc had, and you can get the later type but not this one annoyingly.

[danthecapriman]

As far as the master cylinder is concerned... this is a kit car.. fit anything that fits in the gap.  You could probably get a servo and master cylinder from the scrappies for a tenner.  From *anything*.  As long as it's dual circuit and uses the same type fitting, who give a fig if it's from the original donor vehicle or not?

 

How quickly does the starter actually wind the engine over?  Videeeoooow needed!

This.

 

I couldn't do this because I'm a twat and want original Ford only for the Capri. But this kit car doesn't have that issue so you'd be just as well saving yourself some pennies and find a different part from a scrap yard or similar.

[Stanky]

The corrosion inside this was pretty grim, it was definitely past it anyway. it might possibly have survived if I'd got it sleeved but even that was touch-and-go.

 

So, what options do I have for a non-servo master cylinder with 3 outlets (front left, front right, rear circuits)? Are the pedal end bits universal? I can get a pic of this part shortly. The chassis plate has extruded bolts for the existing master cylinder so I need something with the same bolt hole width really.

[SiC]

Could you have a t-piece for the front circuit and go for a 2 line master?

[dollywobbler]

Speak to Angry Dicky. He works at Past Parts and may have a solution.

[Stanky]

Angry Dicky is on the case already, Sheffcortinacentre has been very helpful and suggested a 64066218 is the 2-line equivalent of the one I have, and that fitting a t-piece to join the front circuit would be viable.

[1duck]

http://autoshite.com/topic/30652-mostly-free-ultimate-shiter-clearance-mostly-parts-some-full-cars/

 

 

There's an xr2 1.6 engine going in that thread, but it's possibly the furthest place from you possible. Perhaps a friendly autoshitter headed in your direction could pony express it down. It might even be worth asking about a brake servo, because you never know.

[Guest Hooli]

Needs to be a RWD master cylinder really.

 

IIRC FWD motors spilt the brake circuits diagonally & RWD split them front to rear. So a RWD cylinder will have a larger section for the front half as discs use more fluid movement than drums. A FWD master cylinder will have equal halves.

[Stanky]

New (to me) starter motor ordered from ebay, should be picking it up this week.

[anonymous user]

Would think the batt cable is 'fat' enough.

Either bad end connections or duff Starter motor likely reason for getting hot.

I'd get it running before wasting cash getting it to stop.

Unless you fancy dragging it down the street which is what I'd probably do.

I have forgotten, but have you made sure there is a decent earth from the engine?

[Talbot]

Needs to be a RWD master cylinder really.

 

IIRC FWD motors spilt the brake circuits diagonally & RWD split them front to rear. So a RWD cylinder will have a larger section for the front half as discs use more fluid movement than drums. A FWD master cylinder will have equal halves.

No... the bore and pistons diameter are the same on all split circuit brakes, as it's just one drilling. Any balancing of the brakes is then done with a rear circuit pressure limiting device or sometimes a limiter screwed into the master cylinder.

 

Some cars are split diagonally, but most are split front/rear. I think it has more to do with the weight balance of the car rather than the drive end.

[dollywobbler]

I think the split is more to do with when a car was built. 2CV is FWD and split front and rear. I think later thinking was that it was better to have a brake working each side in case of failure, as suddenly discovering you only had the rear brakes working could get a bit exciting.

[Guest Hooli]

*shuffles back to corner*

[Christine]

Having a diagonal split is scary too..... I found out 

 

 

Almost like a series Land Rover      Now what way will it go ?  Up the kerb... or a head on the other way?