Some tough decisions

[Bren]

Last summer I ran the engine on my SD1 after refitting the distributor and priming the oil pump ( I thought) with an electric drill.

This week I confirmed that the engine indeed has no oil pressure. I will pull the pump cover and pack the gears with petroleum jelly but i'm not holding any hope.

I expect the engine to be toast.

It had done over 100k and had good oil pressure however by this mileage the cam and tappets are usually past their best along with the bearings.

I can't decide what to do - dispose of the car - it would part out for more than selling it whole.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours on the body work - inner and outer sills, wings, arches - I could go on.

I cannot put into words how pi@##ed off I am.

A big part of me says get rid - I have had the car for fifteen years - kids/ shifts / house / life are all obstacles that get in the way.

It needed a paint job and an MOT - an engine may now be added to the list. SD1's have gone up in value but still not enough to justify spending a fortune.

Time for a think methinks......

[artdjones]

3 minutes ago, Bren said:

Last summer I ran the engine on my SD1 after refitting the distributor and priming the oil pump ( I thought) with an electric drill.

This week I confirmed that the engine indeed has no oil pressure. I will pull the pump cover and pack the gears with petroleum jelly but i'm not holding any hope.

I expect the engine to be toast.

It had done over 100k and had good oil pressure however by this mileage the cam and tappets are usually past their best along with the bearings.

I can't decide what to do - dispose of the car - it would part out for more than selling it whole.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours on the body work - inner and outer sills, wings, arches - I could go on.

I cannot put into words how pi@##ed off I am.

A big part of me says get rid - I have had the car for fifteen years - kids/ shifts / house / life are all obstacles that get in the way.

It needed a paint job and an MOT - an engine may now be added to the list. SD1's have gone up in value but still not enough to justify spending a fortune.

Time for a think methinks......

I have no hands on experience of Rover V8s, but my understanding has always been that they won't build up pressure without the petroleum jelly treatment if they have been allowed to totally drain down.

[Matty]

30 minutes ago, Bren said:

Last summer I ran the engine on my SD1 after refitting the distributor and priming the oil pump ( I thought) with an electric drill.

This week I confirmed that the engine indeed has no oil pressure. I will pull the pump cover and pack the gears with petroleum jelly but i'm not holding any hope.

I expect the engine to be toast.

It had done over 100k and had good oil pressure however by this mileage the cam and tappets are usually past their best along with the bearings.

I can't decide what to do - dispose of the car - it would part out for more than selling it whole.

I have spent literally hundreds of hours on the body work - inner and outer sills, wings, arches - I could go on.

I cannot put into words how pi@##ed off I am.

A big part of me says get rid - I have had the car for fifteen years - kids/ shifts / house / life are all obstacles that get in the way.

It needed a paint job and an MOT - an engine may now be added to the list. SD1's have gone up in value but still not enough to justify spending a fortune.

Time for a think methinks......

On the basis that itd be after a strip and rebuild by this point anyway i wouldnt say youve lost much. Sure its been forced on you a bit but with a glass a full view its just a bit of motivation.

With the money won by selling the car (either whole or piecemeal) would you do anything meaningful with it? If that brass would just be absorbed into day to day life then unless moneys tight id keep the car and continue to restore it. Once its gone you wont get another.

[hairnet]

if you can keep it and work on it slowly

rebuild the engine

or lexus v8

if youve put that much into the bodywork (the hard bit)

mech is easy

hang on it until youre able/can be arsed/tvr powah it

 

 

 

 

[sierraman]

I’m a really negative miserable cunt. But I’d say don’t break it up, keep persevering with it. If you scrapped it/sold it you’d probably end up festering away in front of the television for the remaining years of your life. Go through it methodically through the winter, even if it takes you months/years. Don’t give up. 

[Matty]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I’m a really negative miserable cunt. But I’d say don’t break it up, keep persevering with it. If you scrapped it/sold it you’d probably end up festering away in front of the television for the remaining years of your life. Go through it methodically through the winter, even if it takes you months/years. Don’t give up. 

Exactly what i was trying to say. But less word salady 🤣

[loserone]

14 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I’m a really negative miserable cunt.

Yes, that's definitely an impression you give, but then 

15 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Don’t give up. 

Fucking this.  

[Matty]

19 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I’m a really negative miserable cunt

We should form a support group. 

[24vdiamond]

I'd try and get oil pressure then go for a start, if its toast then think about moving it on

[danthecapriman]

Definitely don’t give up. 
You’ve done the hard bit by sorting the body so letting it go now would be such a waste of all that effort and expense.

If your engine is finished, then potentially it could be seen as a blank canvas for something else??? Another V8? More modern engine? Dare I say… EV??? Range Rover V8 which has all the modern injection gubbins etc etc but is still the basic Rover V8?
Rebuilding or replacing with the same engine would be my choice, but I know they aren’t as common or cheap as they once were.

[Mr Livered]

30 minutes ago, Matty said:

We should form a support group. 

Fundamentally, that's what this place is, no?

[Pieman]

Keep at it, I love SD1s.  I can try and find you a spare/replacement engine through my racing contacts if it needs one.

[djoptix]

9 hours ago, Mr Livered said:

Fundamentally, that's what this place is, no?

Men would literally rather spend hours on a car forum than go to therapy. Ridiculous 

 

/s

[eddyramrod]

@Bren I'm so sorry you've come to this point.  It's one I know extremely well!

Only you can really decide if the time/skills/money balance will allow you to rebuild the engine - IF that's what it actually needs - but even I know these 215s have a reputation for poor oil pressure.  As @artdjones says above, it might stand some prolonged building-up, perhaps by cranking with the plugs out and a spare battery to hand?

What are your chances of finding another one to buy?  Especially one you can afford?  Even more so one that doesn't need all the work you've already paid for on this one?  This is where @danthecapriman was a few years ago with his lifelong Capri; he bit the bullet and took it right down to the last nut and bolt, and I've now seen it up close in person.  It's bloody gorgeous, something to be really proud of.

If the engine really is toast, it's not the end of the world.  Where one V8 fits, so will another.  Rover/TVR spec blocks will always do it, and there's certainly no shortage of Range Rovers to break.  MMMMMM, 4.4 EFI SD1?  Don't mind if I do!

TL:DR: If at all possible, keep hold.  

[Marina door handles]

Another vote for stick with it (if you haven't lost the love for the car), there are plenty more donor V8s and alternatives to slot in........ 

[Spottedlaurel]

I say stick with it, presuming it's safely stored in such a way that all your hard work isn't rusting away again.

I don't know your work/family circumstances, but generally that should become less of a day-to-day factor for you. And it's something of a cliché but life does start going by quicker and quicker. In a few years when you have time and motivation to do something with an old car then you may regret letting it go in a fit of desperation, and a decent example might not be affordable?

I fully empathise with where you are, family life and work on the house(s) has taken up much of the last 20-odd years for me, but now I can see a light at the end of that tunnel. I'd be kicking myself if I'd let the Laurel go at any point just to make life a bit easier or fund something that would have worked itself out anyway.

[SiC]

Ah car projects. I have enough of them and enough of the agro. 

However given the option to kill it or spend a bit more time fixing it, surely it's worth a bit more time on it? Just ride the sunken cost fallacy a bit longer!

After all, mechanical bits are invariably easier to sort and easier to cost down than bodywork which you've now sorted. If it's had good pressure and now nothing then really would only be a catastrophic failure to have done that (or pump priming) but that's unlikely to ever have happened from just sitting not running? Even if it had then the internal damage would be a lot more minimal and savable than if it was ran for a long period with no pressure.

 

[sierraman]

11 hours ago, Matty said:

We should form a support group. 

No fuck that! 😂😂😂

[N Dentressangle]

Like others say, just fix the engine. These aren't complex lumps - you're not dealing with a quad cam Audi V10 or something here, just a 50's American V8.

Checklist for starting: https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/first-start-up-requirements-sd1-v8.296247/ 

If it had oil pressure before then it will do again, won't it? They'll run for a long time with worn cam and followers anyway, so I wouldn't worry about that. Oil pressure is never that high on these engines either, and the top end has to survive on what it gets. Which it does.

It'll be fine. Engine is the least of your worries, and fairly cheaply fixed anyway https://www.facebook.com/share/1EbnG9qawz/

[Bren]

I started removing the oil pump. Filter full of oil as expected - oil dripping out of the gauze filter on the pump cover.

I have removed four of the six screws out of the cover - I will carry on tomorrow.

[Bren]

The last two bolts can be accessed from the engine compartment.

The pump housing was stuck fast and had to be persuaded to move - when it came free the smaller of the pump rotors disappeared- I found it on the subframe.

The bigger of the two gears looks ok but the smaller one did have scoring - 

I polished the worst out.

I removed the relief valve spring and bolt but found the valve didn't want to move - I was reluctant to use a screwdriver to lever it out in case I scratched the bore. In the end I ran the hot tap over the aluminium casting - the valve came out with a magnet.

I cleaned the cover and the chamber for the relief valve with a brush and brake cleaner - 

Despite oiling the relief valve bore first the relief valve was still tight - I used hit water to get it out again. And that's where I have stopped - I have no idea how tight in the bore the valve should be and if there is sufficient oil pressure to push the valve against the spring.

[SiC]

No idea on the Rover V8 as never had one. But every plunger/piston I've removed on engines that I have done smoothly slid up and down it. 

I assume the bore is not clogged up with old oily crud? I'd probably give it a good hit of carb cleaner and use a cotton bud down the hole to make sure it's squeaky clean. It's got to be a tight fit for oil pressure to not escape around it. 

[Brigsy]

Prv piston usually moves ok on oil pumps on other cars. Cant be far off if came out with a magnet, quick clean up and send it.

Prob worth checking tolerances on the rotors if you have them. Every used one ive checked on renault engines seemed to be under the minimum tolerance.

[Bren]

7 minutes ago, SiC said:

No idea on the Rover V8 as never had one. But every plunger/piston I've removed on engines that I have done smoothly slid up and down it. 

I assume the bore is not clogged up with old oily crud? I'd probably give it a good hit of carb cleaner and use a cotton bud down the hole to make sure it's squeaky clean. It's got to be a tight fit for oil pressure to not escape around it. 

It's spotless but I will polish the valve.

[jim89]

10 minutes ago, SiC said:

No idea on the Rover V8 as never had one. But every plunger/piston I've removed on engines that I have done smoothly slid up and down it. 

I assume the bore is not clogged up with old oily crud? I'd probably give it a good hit of carb cleaner and use a cotton bud down the hole to make sure it's squeaky clean. It's got to be a tight fit for oil pressure to not escape around it. 

If this is an over pressure relief valve it's going to be a pretty high psi before it should operate anyway  surely? 

[SiC]

If this is an over pressure relief valve it's going to be a pretty high psi before it should operate anyway  surely? 

Depends where it's getting stuck. If it's getting stuck around the area of the relief port and allowing oil to flow, then it'll always be flowing into the bypass.

[Bren]

I have a spare cover and a spare pair of gears that I will check over - if the valve moves freely I will fit my spare cover.

[delux]

Sorry for the late response, just caught up with the thread (on holiday, blah blah)

I'd say keep it! 

Every 'autoshite' car has its 'fuck this shit' moments but we are the guys who carry on and fix stuff even when it defies economic or logic reasoning! 😄

Im not a fan of British cars but the SD1 is one of the exceptions to the rule. Like a Ferrari Daytona but cheaper and more practical!

Your cars bodyworks sorted, its now got an engine problem. Its only a problem until its sorted, then it just becomes a funny story! 

 

[Jikovron]

I had one were i fitted a serpentine gasket on a early engine, would not prime at all because the pick up channel through the block was open to air, a slight gasket leak could also do the same thing as ive never failed to prime even a dryish semi worn pump with a drill.

[Bren]

I couldn't use the other pump cover because the valve was seized on the bore.

I used wet and dry paper wrapped around a pencil to polish the bore. Eventually the valve moved up and down the bore freely in bolt action style. I can only assume some kind of galvanic corrosion had taken place?

Pump gears back in and much petroleum jelly - it is baltic here, the petroleum jelly was somewhat difficult to get out of the tub.

Gears nicely packed.

The cover is back on and the oil filter.

I will spin the pump with my drill - I will have the key on to see if the warning light goes off and the needle on the pressure gauge moves. Sadly I don't hold out much hope the engine can be saved.