Bad Restorations

[bezzabsa]

anyone watch MAD4MOTORS , hes just done an evo...and he seems to have a thing for old rally cars

[Zelandeth]

Let's not forget how difficult it is to get professional work done these days.  Or at least that's been my recent experience.

I've had two supposedly classic friendly garages tell me to do myself a favour and just scrap a car when enquiring as to whether they'd undertake a head removal, inspection, repair as necessary and reassembly job for me.

Plus a half dozen others just flat out refuse to take it on.

That's for an easily accessible four cylinder 8-valve OHC engine for which all the necessary bits are readily available.

Having spent the first ten years of my driving career having to make do and mend because I don't have two pennies to rub together and needed to get the 35 miles (each way) to college the next morning when the nearest motor factor was 16 miles away, it's bloody frustrating.  As far as I'm concerned the work that needs doing needs doing.  It costs what it costs...I just want to give the car to someone, have them fix it and hand me back a working car and an invoice! 

I'm sure I *can* do the job...but it's going to be infinitely more of a ball ache when I round off or snap something trying to separate one of the manifolds, or the heavens open while I'm in the middle of part of the job I can't pause.  Plus I then need to find someone to pressure test the head, skim it if needed etc...when a garage will likely already have a working relationship with someone who has the tools/skills to do that even if they don't have the kit themselves.  So despite being able to do it...I just really don't WANT to.

I shudder to think how much more difficult it's going to be to find someone to do the welding it needs as I've several orders less enthusiasm for getting involved in that than I have pulling the cylinder head.

I doubt I'm the only one who has run into things like this, so I'm sure stuff gets bodged as a result in many cases.  In this case the car's a labour of love that makes *zero* sense from a logical standpoint as even if I restored it to concourse condition it would still be optimistically worth maybe £1200 on a good day.  However I couldn't care less, and what work it needs it will have done.

[Bren]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Let's not forget how difficult it is to get professional work done these days.  Or at least that's been my recent experience.

I've had two supposedly classic friendly garages tell me to do myself a favour and just scrap a car when enquiring as to whether they'd undertake a head removal, inspection, repair as necessary and reassembly job for me.

Plus a half dozen others just flat out refuse to take it on.

That's for an easily accessible four cylinder 8-valve OHC engine for which all the necessary bits are readily available.

Having spent the first ten years of my driving career having to make do and mend because I don't have two pennies to rub together and needed to get the 35 miles (each way) to college the next morning when the nearest motor factor was 16 miles away, it's bloody frustrating.  As far as I'm concerned the work that needs doing needs doing.  It costs what it costs...I just want to give the car to someone, have them fix it and hand me back a working car and an invoice! 

I'm sure I *can* do the job...but it's going to be infinitely more of a ball ache when I round off or snap something trying to separate one of the manifolds, or the heavens open while I'm in the middle of part of the job I can't pause.  Plus I then need to find someone to pressure test the head, skim it if needed etc...when a garage will likely already have a working relationship with someone who has the tools/skills to do that even if they don't have the kit themselves.  So despite being able to do it...I just really don't WANT to.

I shudder to think how much more difficult it's going to be to find someone to do the welding it needs as I've several orders less enthusiasm for getting involved in that than I have pulling the cylinder head.

I doubt I'm the only one who has run into things like this, so I'm sure stuff gets bodged as a result in many cases.  In this case the car's a labour of love that makes *zero* sense from a logical standpoint as even if I restored it to concourse condition it would still be optimistically worth maybe £1200 on a good day.  However I couldn't care less, and what work it needs it will have done.

I was told by a friend of a local business who farm out cambelts to another garage.

Very soon all you will be able to get is oil changes and brake pads.

[omegod]

 

These guys are proper metal artists, spent hours on the channel 

https://www.youtube.com/@yorkshirecarrestoration

[Bren]

3 minutes ago, omegod said:

 

These guys are proper metal artists, spent hours on the channel 

https://www.youtube.com/@yorkshirecarrestoration

That Datsun. Oh dear......

[sheffcortinacentre]

Watch junkerup if you want to see proper restoration work Chris birdsong does amazing work.

As for minis trying to align any front end panels irrespective of brand is gaurenteed to put you off for life! Simple job 🤣🤣🤣

[J-T]

2 hours ago, Aston Martin said:

I don't think Harry has given us the full price of the Zagato resto yet. But I believe it's close to £100k and the car looked OK pre resto.

I think he said the XJC he had done was £70k plus and that turned out to be in much better nick than that Zagato so it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s cost north of £100k. 

[DSdriver]

Don't forget to take a small magnet with you when going to look at a car, it is an easy way to tell if what looks like wob is.

[sierraman]

32 minutes ago, DSdriver said:

Don't forget to take a small magnet with you when going to look at a car, it is an easy way to tell if what looks like wob is.

I just find the sheets of the stuff falling off a giveaway.

[danthecapriman]

9 minutes ago, sierraman said:

I just find the sheets of the stuff falling off a giveaway.

I wonder how much heavier filler is than metal? Some of these ‘restored’ cars must have the weight and fuel economy of a tank!

I wonder if it actually makes much/any difference!?😆

[cort16]

33 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

I wonder how much heavier filler is than metal? Some of these ‘restored’ cars must have the weight and fuel economy of a tank!

I wonder if it actually makes much/any difference!?😆

It had to on something like that harrys garage Lancia when it's such a small car. There wasn't one inch on that car that didn't need some work and wasn't caked in inches of filler. He was lucky he found the company that restored it how many places can just knock you up a boot lid?

[RoverFolkUs]

4 hours ago, Bren said:

I was told by a friend of a local business who farm out cambelts to another garage.

Very soon all you will be able to get is oil changes and brake pads.

Modern VAG petrols I don't blame them at all, if it's being outsourced to someone who has invested the £1000's in the specialist tools

Some of them are an absolute pain in the arse to do without the tools. There's a few engine codes which require an actual computer to lock the VVT in a certain position or something

You can do it without the tools by making marks but if you balls it up then you'll need that tool to set it right again. Whilst it's a pain in the arse, I can see why they would

If it's all cambelts though then they're throwing away easy money, but that's their choice. 

Honestly, brakes should be easy money but it doesn't seem to matter what brand you fit these days, there's a percentage of people who will take their car away and boy racer them for a bit and complain they've got brake squeal, and they come back to you of course

The automotive repair sector is a joke at the moment, very low pay for the skill level and tooling required which obviously affects the workforce and leaves a poor work ethic which subsequently reflects on someone's willingness to take on certain jobs

Would someone on £20k a year fresh out of training be raring to go and do a 1.4 TSI cambelt and balls up the ACT calibration and cause themselves that headache? Not for £20k a year and I don't blame them. 

On the subject of older cars, again, it's a lack of widespread job enthusiasm and optimism that causes it. People just can't be bothered to take the head off a 30 year old engine. 

Maybe I'm different or one of the rare ones but I'm not like that, I look forward to new challenges and I'll take on anything. I think I noticed a Saab 900 booked in for a clutch in a few weeks and I'd say it's something to look forward to seeing but the vast majority of the current workforce would call in sick on that day

(Edit- by new challenges, I mean anything outside the normal day to day jobs. Whether that's an unusual/older car, an uncommon fault, etc)

[sierraman]

It’s becoming more of a marque specialised thing given the cost of the tools. 

[2flags]

Why would you bother to spend all that money on getting a first class tool kit together for the money that is being paid? I left the game 45yrs ago. I went driving buses. More money, less hassle, and no snap-on bill! 

[sierraman]

3 minutes ago, 2flags said:

Why would you bother to spend all that money on getting a first class tool kit together for the money that is being paid? I left the game 45yrs ago. I went driving buses. More money, less hassle, and no snap-on bill! 

This seems to be the issue, someone leaving school is likely to go for an apprentice Plumber/spark/joiner etc. Loads of money in it. 

[Blunderguts]

I remember a friend had a Mk6 Bentley. It looked alright until you opened the boot. There were areas that looked like a whole flock of pigeons had done the welding.

[cobblers]

The absolute SHIT state of almost every "restored" VW T25 I've ever seen is unreal. They're all total dogs, I'd much rather buy a rotten one than a shiny one. The only difference is £5000 and about 18 months parked outside. I look back at some of the work I did on my panel van and cringe a little bit, but it's a fucking damn sight better than the wobbed up shite that people are asking £15+k for nowadays.

A woman on one of the facebook groups was bellyaching that she'd jet washed her t25 and some paint had flaked off after she'd had it "fully restored at great cost by a professional" 8 months prior. She'd gone back to the bloke who "restored it" and he'd fobbed her off as you'd expect.

Turns out this "full restoration" took a week and cost her £1350. There were some photos of it being painted in a filthy barn with old beach towels used to mask off the tyres etc. Very clearly painted straight over rust and flaky paint, muck in all the door shuts etc etc. 

Nobody wants to pay what a proper restoration would cost. I'd never buy something that someone had restored themselves unless there was a 9 million photo scrapbook of the job included. 

The closest I got was buying a Mini that a copper had restored. Engine span a bearing on the way home. Alternator didn't do anything because it wasn't wired right. Brake calipers were loose. Both front bucket seats held in on bits of timber. Shiny paint on the outside but rusty holes in the floor still.

[sierraman]

My uncles advice, having restored a car, was to buy the best you could find and then improve it to the stage where it was at the level you wanted it. In other words but a good one to start with.

In the same sale as the above was a Sierra XR4x4, think it was on a 1991 plate, doors full of wob, arches fucked, sills gone on the back, trim missing, bad paint, no doubt loads of mechanical issues. Predicted sale price £2-3k. Flip side the genuine 2.0 GT that was original but when it had been repaired it had been done professionally, was expected to attain £8k. Which in the light of things makes it look a bargain. I mean what are we talking? A quality respray is £4-5k these days, panels? Crap aftermarket ones are still expensive, fucked trim? Good luck with that! It was all unobtainable 20 years ago when I had one. That’s before we get into all welding. 

[Crispian_J_Hotson]

When I was doing my own thing, I got field find 70's BMW's up to rust free, primered, and under sealed, rolling shells. Each shell averaged about 30k in parts and labour and then it went off to continue its 'journey'. That was about 10 years ago. I did throw in free labour for running gear rebuilds and mods though. They had a high retail price into and over the 50k area so were probably an earner.

[PhilA]

I've had people ask why I'm not just putting flat sheet steel into the floor of my car, or just screwing plates down.

They look bemused when I say that if Chrysler thought flat plates were fine it would have that, and that despite the age it's a monocoque design so the strength of the floor actually matters.

 

It happens because people oft don't know any better.

[somewhatfoolish]

It would also probably oilcan like a bastard as welding in flat sheet like as not introduces distortion.

[sierraman]

9 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

It would also probably oilcan like a bastard as welding in flat sheet like as not introduces distortion.

Also what about the resonating that a flat panel would do. 

[PhilA]

3 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Also what about the resonating that a flat panel would do. 

That's solved by lowering the resonant frequency of the panel by covering it in 3/4" of Schutz.

[HMC]

I Re read a 1992 issue of  CAR, one that reflects on old car ownership. Motoring scribe Colin Goodwin borrowed a “restored” e type that had no real inner sills, bacofoil and underseal floorpan repairs, and dodgy patches near the front sub-frame mounts, which apparently if let go could cause the car to “break in half” 

It looked nice, mind you!

[sierraman]

2 hours ago, HMC said:

I Re read a 1992 issue of  CAR, one that reflects on old car ownership. Motoring scribe Colin Goodwin borrowed a “restored” e type that had no real inner sills, bacofoil and underseal floorpan repairs, and dodgy patches near the front sub-frame mounts, which apparently if let go could cause the car to “break in half” 

It looked nice, mind you!

Loads of those late 80’s resto jobs were absolute bodges. 

[lesapandre]

Yes classic cars increased hughly in price in the 80's and classic car auctions got into their stride. Mk2 Jags in lipstick red on chrome wires were particularly popular.

So it led to lots of absolute nails being tarted up for a very quick profit.

[UltraWomble]

2014 we picked up the Ten-Four (and a donor car)

2022 it was finished the night before my eldest daughters prom.

The Eight took longer to restore as there was significantly more metal work involved and new wooden frame to make.

[Supernaut]

My dad's been rebuilding a series 1 Land Rover onto a galvanised chassis since 2013!

Admittedly there have been periods when it's been put on the back burner.

However, he seems to be doing a proper nut and bolt level restoration. I remember at one point the engine was reduced to its individual parts and scattered around the barn for several months.

[HMC]

I Have on my shelf a copy of “backfire” - a collection of motoring articles from Alan Clark. Theres an article from the late 60s which describes dodgy dealers giving 30s bentleys a blow over and neglecting mechanical bits, and giving a bullshit ad for the sale of it.

[Dyslexic Viking]

I recommend watching this as it shows how bad things can be.