Americans and oil changes..

[Barry Cade]

Just had a barrage of abuse on a forum, as I dared to ask why Americans seem to change their oil at 3-5000 miles..I listen to a few US podcasts, and it really seems the norm. I mentioned our cars are recommended 10-20000 miles by the manufacturers and it was like i was setting the stars and stripes alight. I was told in no uncertain terms that the engine will implode and I am an absolute nutter. Any ' mericans  on here care to comment?

[Dave_Q]

I do seem to recall reading they are quite mad for it, with such a thing as a drive through oil change place being a thing.

Dunno why, strong marketing from the oil companies? Big country so generally do lots of miles? Shite fuel so oil gets clagged quicker?

[eddyramrod]

It could be skewed by the desert states.  When I lived in Cyprus I was doing oil changes (well, taking them to Andreas to change...) at 3-4 month intervals.  Apparently the air in these hotter places gets dense with sand and dust which gets sucked into your engine and overwhelms the oil's ability to lubricate.

No doubt someone will now come along and tell me the figure doesn't differ between the desert states and the verdant ones.

[bezzabsa]

hold back from the 50's I think

when cross country runs were punctuated with a mid trip oil swap..

Sons g/f used to get hers swapped every 3 months or so ..approx 2-3000 miles, but after much "abuse" and general dis agreeing with her, she now has it done at 10k or 12 months, shes in Alabama and I think oil swap places are more common than Maccy D's down there!!!

Her current Camry is on 200k IIRC

[Barry Cade]

Doing lots of miles would mean oil would not need changed at such low mileages, and surely the air filter keeps dust and sand out of the engine? crap fuel, yes, but high ethanol content would burn cleaner I think?  I know some parts have extreme temp differences, but that would just mean winter and summer weight oil, but that's pretty old hat now.

[Split_Pin]

Pretty sure that crazy Scotty Kilmer did a video on things his dad and grandpa used to do on cars in the 50s which you don't need to do now, damned if I can find it though.

[adw1977]

Don't Americans do oil changes in a half-arsed way where you suck the old oil through the dipstick and don't remove the oil filter or sump plug? So you're not changing all the oil, therefore you need to do it more often?

[SiC]

13 minutes ago, adw1977 said:

Don't Americans do oil changes in a half-arsed way where you suck the old oil through the dipstick and don't remove the oil filter or sump plug? So you're not changing all the oil, therefore you need to do it more often?

Most dealers in Europe suck it out the dipstick. You get the majority of the oil out when doing it tbh. Possibly more than through the sump plug, depending the shape of the pan. 

[SiC]

@PhilA being a Brit in the USA will be well placed to answer this.

[Skut]

The whole pence per mile calculation can't be such a big thing in the US. 

[Steve79]

This is Fords 1989 service schedule for the Mercury 

 

[Steve79]

I’m guessing that if you’re in a hot weather state like Florida, Texas, California etc and you’re doing a lot of freeway and inner city driving then chances are you’ll be on “Schedule A” whereas colder states will most likely be on “Schedule B”.

The Mercury lived most of its life in California so probably would have been on Schedule A servicing.

 

[Andyrew]

The few times i visited the states i recall numerous adverts on the telly and banners outside garages  warning about oil sludge build up or advertising "anti sludge" aditive products and oil.  

It just surprised me as the only sludge related things over here are normally the one or two types of engines known for lunching themselves from it. 

Im guessing low quality oils and maybe low quality engines,

I drop the oil and filter on my 1.7dti around 4k.  Probably overkill but its an old turbo lump on about 160k that id like to sqeeze a few years out of and at less than £10 for the oil and filter together it makes sense to me. 

 

[1970mgb]

3 months/3000 miles IMO is a holdout from leaded gas, carburetors, and points type ignition. Lead gets everywhere and cruds up everything, while carburetors(especially big American ones that meter fuel less precisely than an SU) contribute to fuel dilution and cylinder washing in the oil, the last of which gives you faster ring wear that eats up the additive pack in your oil. Points ignition, with a higher tendency toward misfires than more modern systems, just contributes to all of that also. I still tend to do old cars at least once a year(which is usually 3K or less for me) for that reason.

On modern cars-most manufacturers recommend a minimum 5K drain interval, but a lot of folks have had 3 months/3K drilled in for so long that they get anxious doing it. A lot of dealerships and quick-change shops still write 3000 miles on the window sticker.  Personally, I've been doing quality synthetic+good filter for 10K for a while now. Some folks tell me I'm going to blow up my engine(has yet to happen, and I've done over 100K on several engines doing just that) while others tell me I'm draining too soon.

At least a lot of cars now have "smart" oil life monitors that monitor your driving conditions and recommend an oil change when they decide that your combination of mileage+speed+idling and other variables warrants a change. Idling and short trips tend to be hard on oil, and certain types of use(mainly police cars) involve a lot of idling while a lot of folks are guilty of short-tripping to the point that the oil may never get up to temperature and "burn off" moisture and fuel.  My wife's Jeep supposedly can tell you to change as soon as 3K or as late as 10K depending on how it senses your driving. In the past, she's done 3K miles since that's what the dealer told her, but now that it's off warranty and I'm doing her oil changes for her, we're seeing how long it goes before it says to change. I'm guessing we'll make at least 8K if not the full 10K since the bulk of her driving is back and forth to work, a 30 mile trip of mostly interstate driving.

And yes, quick change places that function as a drive-through service are very much a thing. Jiffy Lube is kind of the original chain, but there are a fair few others now. Some are okay, but most are notoriously bad. They'll have one guy(or lady) down in the "pit" who pulls your drain plug and filter while you wait, often with a crescent wrench on the plug so that they don't have to bother switching sockets. They stick a lowest-bidder filter on and use a wrench to tighten it "so that it doesn't leak" and then dump in whatever their special bulk oil of the day is in something close to the correct weight.  The last oil filter I removed that had been fitted by one of them ended up crumpled like a tin can from the combination of a thin can and being on way too tight. While they're at it, they do check all your other fluids, air up your tires, fill your washer fluid, and do some other odds and ends. Of course, the visit isn't complete without them removing your air filter, showing you how dirty it looks, and trying to sell you one at an inflated price, and of course upselling on any other service they can. Some folks will take anything they recommend, and that $20 oil change they advertise on their sign can end up being $200+ if you do everything they say to do.

To be fair, some of those places hire competent people who will actually do things correctly and won't upsell you on unecessary stuff, but unskilled labor+upsells are part and parcel of the business model for most of the places(I say unskilled because, IMO, knowing how to screw and unscrew drain plugs and filters, pour oil in, and check other fluids doesn't make someone a mechanic, although no doubt some places do have mechanics working there).

Even dealerships aren't much better, since they often pass off oil changes to the lowest paid guy there and are even more notorious for the upsell.

If you pay someone to do oil changes for you, it's best with a small independent mechanic or shop. Even if they have a shop assistant or whoever do them, you can usually be assured that the owner is keeping an eye on them. Of course you have to watch them also, since you can still get upsells in less scrupulous shops or when business is slow.

[PhilA]

1 hour ago, SiC said:

@PhilA being a Brit in the USA will be well placed to answer this.

Really depends where you go.

Jiffy Lube "5 minutes" change you're lucky if they even take the old oil out... But yeah, that's done via suction tube so they don't have to spend time putting the car up on the ramp.

Dealership that services my Challenger (yeah, but it's the kind of vehicle the next buyer wants to see FDSH) drains it out the sump plug when it's up on a ramp but they also do a rudimentary inspection of the car at the same time.

 

Phil

 

 

[Wgl2019]

Am I right in thinking fully synthetic oil is a fairly recent thing for most American cars? I've seen a couple of vids on the YouTube almost pleading with viewers not to change the oil so much and explaining how much better modern oil is.....

Conversely I suspect that the extended intervals seen on a lot of modern cars are excessive and whilst fine for the first owner (leaser?) and whilst car is under warranty may not lead to a long and happy ownership experience after this.

[sutty2006]

9 hours ago, Steve79 said:

This is Fords 1989 service schedule for the Mercury 

 

You beat me to it! I knew I’d read it somewhere that oil for the mercury was changed at 3000 or so miles. Crazy low. 
 

the trucks I work on are changed at 120000km, or 150000km if on long interval plan. 

[MikeR]

I tend to drop the oil twice a year ,before the summer , and before the winter ,  and the filters once a year. 

Sometimes I can't be arsed and just do it the once ... 

That's for about 10k a year in a 1600 focus ...... 

[cort1977]

Yes, it's an American obsession, kept going because it makes money for everyone and doesn't do any harm.

People who know nothing about cars do know the one 'fact' that you have to change your oil at 3000 miles.  For @PhilA's Pontiac this is good advice.  For the Camry that most people drive it is nonsense.

Fuel quality, conditions etc. are nothing to do with it, it's a cherished belief which is fiercely held as shown in the comments to @Barry Cade.  I have looked at a few sites about servicing the Mustang and it's kind of depressing the amount of horse shit people spout about oil and filter types.

[xtriple]

When I took the SuLK to the garage for its service and MOT (whic was a BIG ouch!) I asked that they used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil (as I always use it, it's good stuff   ) and while they laughed at me up sleeves they did and to prove it gave me the unused part of the second 5 litre can. When I checked, the car had done 800 miles on its last fill of Mobil 1 fully syntheti oil... I think it may have been... overkill!

A lot of my obsession with oil and changes comes bact to bikes, especially the dirt bikes which were changed every 10 hours and they only held a litre so (in the Husky's case) bloody expensive fully synthetic 10/60 oil after every ride and change te il filter every other ride. Also change the air filter (washable) every ride and brakes pads every three. Big board on the garage wall to point out what was due, to which bike and when!

I became even more nuts about oil than I already was.

[St.Jude]

American's are mad for oil. I always get a bit worried when I fill the chip pan up as I expect to have the US Air Force bomb shite out of my house for it. 

They don't trust what the manufacturer's say about oil changes, and would rather do it earlier. But because the supposed badness of leaving it to 8,000/10,000/12,000 never happens, it proves their point of getting it done early. 

[Barry Cade]

I am much more careful with bike oil changes, but they rev a lot higher, the oil also lubricates the gearbox and mine can sit for a few weeks between use. Also bikes are assumed to be at the end of their lives by 50 to 75k. Or are they..  Valve clearances are another bike thing.. bikers will know...

300,000 miles seems pretty common in America, interesting to know if that's because of oil changes, climate in some states ar just the longer distances they do? Cars here don't tend to get scrapped because of engine wear, unless its a VW or certain Toyotas.. 😬

 

[Jazoli]

A lot of bikes are 6000 mile oil changes, some more some less, valve clearances are supposed to be done at 30k for most bikes, when the engines are producing over 200bhp/litre and revving to 15000rpm+ in some cases its not such a bad idea

[sutty2006]

I knew a bloke that did 100,000 miles in a Mk3 turbo diesel cav without changing the oil. Think that car was well up in the 300k mark..... think rust and a buggered clutch claimed that one. 

[Walter White]

I thought it was because mineral rather than synthetic were used more widely. 

[colino]

It wont do any harm, other than to your wallet, to do frequent changes, but synth and semi-synth are engineered products that are designed, with a healthy factor of safety, to look after your engine for the 10-15,000 mile changes matched with the manufacturer.  It does become a problem with an old engine or faulty engine that suddenly starts adding acids and fuel to the mix though.  Use the right ACEA rating for the job, remember very few organisations make the stuff (a lot of brand snobbery in car oils) and you'll be fine.

[sierraman]

I’d been told (by an American...) that garage Bills in the US were extremely expensive so most people just ran them into the ground unless they could fix it themselves

[bezzabsa]

if you want a good argument about Oil...go on a motorbike forum, and tell them you use car oil in your bike.......Instant Trigger to 99%.. mates done 100k on his Suzuki RF900 using non bike oil....he's been told for last 10 years it's going to blow up/seize/ruin the clutch..so every oil change he makes a point of posting the mileage and the oil he's using...Talk about stirring up a Hornets next!!!!

[1970mgb]

BTW, here's a thread on a  mostly-US-dominant site where there's first of all a lot of knowledge about oil, and second where people are generally comfortable running longer intervals

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/cant-explain-to-the-elderly-that-they-dont-need-an-oil-change-after-8mo-23-miles.336501/

Someone upthread mentioned not following the manufacturer's recommendation for oil. That is true to some degree. Many times, for the US market, the manufacturer will spec very, very thin oils. 0W-20 and even 0W-16 are common. If you compare the same engines sold in other markets with similar climates to good parts of the US, you'll see that a heavier oil is often specced. Manufacturers in the US are required to meet a standard called "CAFE", or corporate average fuel economy, which is a weighted average of every model the manufacturer makes. There are a lot of tricks to fudge the numbers, and sometimes even .1mpg on one high volume model can make a big difference. Under test conditions, using a thin oil can often tick your CAFE down by that much if not a bit more. It's one of those things that in the real world, most of us won't see a difference running 0W-20 vs. 5W-30, but it helps the maker.

[MikeR]

I know a Clio that did 30k on one oil change , before that it had stood for years and was just started and driven for ages before I checked the dip stick and oil did not register !!! , That oil change was to flush it and was never done ........

A smack  up the arse finished it ..