The grumpy thread

[HH-R]

I think I'd just end it all in a country where you're expected to do long hours every day as well as weekends and getting hardly any holidays.

[Tamworthbay]

How else would you propose measuring the effectiveness of your workforce?

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Why do you need to? If the company is making a decent profit all is good surely? Why put stupid numbers on to push and push until people either become less productive or leave. And do we really want to live in a culture like South Korea? High ‘productivity’ and a ‘top class’ education system but also the highest suicide rates going and escalating mental health problems. Is that productive? I suppose it doesn’t matter to the company if someone tops themselves as they just get someone else in.

 

There is much more to life than making money for someone else’s benefit.

[captain_70s]

I think I'd just end it all in a country where you're expected to do long hours every day as well as weekends and getting hardly any holidays.

The Japanese have a specific name for that (Karōshi) as it's so common in their workforce. Figures suggest their work hours are behind the Americans in this regard until you realise that they don't count overtime as actual work and people often go years without taking any days off work and will sleep at their desks rather than go home...

[omegod]

Fucking dog's scared shitless, for an area with no cash some people must have money to burn...literally, no doubt there will be some knobhead around 11pm coming in from the pub who remembers his box of OMG ISIS STRENGTH MEGAFUCKLOUD BOMBS just as mutley is settling down

 

TWATS

[Cheggers]

Why do you need to? If the company is making a decent profit all is good surely?

A couple of things...

 

If you work for my company, I’m investing in you. Only a fool wouldn’t track the effectiveness of their investment.

 

How do you think a decent profit is achieved? - It doesn’t just happen without careful management and, yes, measuring a number of factors including productivity. BL’s productivity was notoriously shit compared to the rest of the market and looked what happened there.

 

Sorry, but to expect to get paid for doing a job without having your effectiveness measured is naive in the extreme. If you were paying me to work on your house, wouldn’t you want to know whether I’m ripping you off or not?

 

 

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[Guest Hooli]

Why do you need to? If the company is making a decent profit all is good surely? Why put stupid numbers on to push and push until people either become less productive or leave. And do we really want to live in a culture like South Korea? High ‘productivity’ and a ‘top class’ education system but also the highest suicide rates going and escalating mental health problems. Is that productive? I suppose it doesn’t matter to the company if someone tops themselves as they just get someone else in.

 

There is much more to life than making money for someone else’s benefit.

 

So you wouldn't mind if the team you're in is working twice as hard as the people next door for the same money?

[reb]

Liked for the excellent jump leads.

 

Ben

Mildly pilfered from dad. I'm probably going to need to give them back now.

 

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[Tamworthbay]

A couple of things...

If you work for my company, I’m investing in you. Only a fool wouldn’t track the effectiveness of their investment.

How do you think a decent profit is achieved? - It doesn’t just happen without careful management and, yes, measuring a number of factors including productivity. BL’s productivity was notoriously shit compared to the rest of the market and looked what happened there.

Sorry, but to expect to get paid for doing a job without having your effectiveness measured is naive in the extreme. If you were paying me to work on your house, wouldn’t you want to know whether I’m ripping you off or not?

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You aren’t investing in them, you are paying them to do a job. If they do it they get paid, if they don’t they don’t. Simple isn’t it? People don’t become more productive my continually being measured, as the old saying goes -a tree doesn’t grow any faster if you measure it more often.

 

BL went tits up because the design of the cars was crap, why would you buy a 70s BL car when the opposition were miles ahead in terms of looks and modernity? It’s amazing how many people seem to ‘forget’ what the problem at BL was. There were thousands of cars sat in holding lots, the workers could have built ten billion, but its no use if no one wants to buy them!

[Cheggers]

You aren’t investing in them, you are paying them to do a job. If they do it they get paid, if they don’t they don’t

And how do I know whether they’re doing what I pay them for without measuring their productivity?

 

 

 

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[Tamworthbay]

And how do I know whether they’re doing what I pay them for without measuring their productivity?

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If you are the boss and you don’t know what you asking someone who works for you to do and how much to pay them and whether it has been done then I would politely suggest you aren’t the man for the job.

[Cheggers]

If you are the boss and you don’t know what you asking someone who works for you to do and how much to pay them and whether it has been done then I would politely suggest you aren’t the man for the job.

But that’s the whole point, I do know. I know very precisely.

 

Because it’s measured!!!!!

 

 

OK, let me ask you...I and 149 others work for you. How do you know whether I’m actually doing anything?

 

 

 

 

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[Tamworthbay]

But that’s the whole point, I do know. I know very precisely.

Because it’s measured!!!!!

OK, let me ask you...I and 149 others work for you. How do you know whether I’m actually doing anything?

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I don’t need to continually measure the people I manage, I know the job is being done right and I trust their professional judgement. Production of numbers is just a paper exercise. It’s the old Macnamara fallacy- to manage you have to measure.

[dollywobbler]

Our motor industry collapsed because companies like BMC didn't bother doing any cost analysis. That work has to include productivity. Instead, they set car prices based on what they thought people would pay, even if it meant making a loss. If you want to make a business work, you need to be able to analyse things. I don't think it's unreasonable.

 

Also, what makes you think that countries with high productivity have unhappy workers? Isn't Norway always coming out as one of the happiest places to live? It also happens to be one of the most productive. Shit managers (Tesco, I'm looking at you) will use productivity as a tool to batter employees. Good ones don't.

[DVee8]

FUCKING FIREWORKS!!!!!!!

 

FUCK RIGHT OFF WITH THEM!

 

It sounds like fucking Beirut out there tonight.  No wonder my poor little dog won't go out.

Last night was like that here,nextdoor setting them off like some ww2 battle,this morning the street was strewn with spent fireworks,I had 3 round my cars,but nextdoor had a spent firework on the bonnet of there 67 plate Nissan.

[Cheggers]

I don’t need to continually measure the people I manage, I know the job is being done right and I trust their professional judgement. Production of numbers is just a paper exercise. It’s the old Macnamara fallacy- to manage you have to measure.

"I know the job is being done right"

 

How?...Do you really not measure output and effectiveness at all?

 

 

 

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[Tamworthbay]

"I know the job is being done right"

How?...Do you really not measure output and effectiveness at all?

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The world keeps turning, no one gets killed, everyone can be seen to be doing what they need to be when I ‘do the rounds’. I don’t need to have pieces of paper to show me what I already know to be the case. Sadly I drown in paperwork at the best of times without adding to it with more pointless stuff.

[Cheggers]

The world keeps turning, no one gets killed, everyone can be seen to be doing what they need to be when I ‘do the rounds’. I don’t need to have pieces of paper to show me what I already know to be the case. Sadly I drown in paperwork at the best of times without adding to it with more pointless stuff.

Let's just agree to never work for each other...

 

 

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[Tamworthbay]

Let's just agree to never work for each other...

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You wouldn’t even get an application form

[Cheggers]

You wouldn’t even get an application form

We'll just have to acquire you then

 

 

Then you'll know what measurement really feels like

 

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[DodgeRover]

I still think getting it all done early and buggering off to the beach is a good way to increase productivity and this workers happyness

[Tamworthbay]

We'll just have to acquire you then

Then you'll know what measurement really feels like

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make me an offer, I have been headhunted for my last three jobs...........

[Cheggers]

make me an offer, I have been headhunted for my last three jobs...........

Not what I meant by acquire...I assumed you were a business owner

 

 

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[richardmorris]

To be fair, that's pretty standard, or it has been everywhere I've worked anyway. Quite a lot of companies have a shutdown between Christmas and New Year, and very few magic up some extra holiday days for it. No longer a problem for me, as I now don't get any paid leave at all...

My own company magics up holidays, always has done. Closed for business doesn't mean AL taken off staff.

[Tamworthbay]

Not what I meant by acquire...I assumed you were a business owner

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I am in one of my of two roles, but you ain’t buying me out as I am 100% share holder Well you could, offer me £10,000,000 and I might consider selling but I think there might be a resignation in the post the day after. In my other role you would need to be Donald Trump and his best mates to buy us out.

[Cavcraft]

Never is an expression truer than 'a happy workforce is a good workforce'. Treat people like idiots and they'll behave accordingly I believe.

 

I've been doing a fair bit recently for some fat useless layabout of a bloke, but to be fair to him he sleeps with my wife and has a few awful fabulous Vauxhalls. 

[beko1987]

I've got to work Christmas this year as I've used all my annual leave up (and 2 weeks more but I must be well liked atm as that was bagged with a combination of compassionate leave and working from home, so I still get paid...).

 

Can't say I'm too fussed, I've had the last few years off so it's probably my turn, and it's a massive laugh anyway! All the companies we work with close over crimbo, so the phones don't ring. I'll probably take my laptop and sit with the cs people all day, in at 10, be told to go home at 2/3, no traffic at all (my personal best home was in the puma on crimbo eve at 3pm one year, not beaten it since in any car! Only scared myself twice...)

 

When we had a bloke called Simon work for us back in the day him and another chap bought their laptops and a network switch in and played football manager over the 4 days... I don't mind working over Christmas at all!

[Stanky]

Not like, but commiserate.

 

We really do need a "sympathy", "commiserate " button Slartibartfast.

 

<sinister tone>

 

The wheels are already in motion Mr Morris

 

</sinister tone>

[plasticvandan]

Am I the only one with all bar 3 days holiday still to take? I'm having this week oiff just to use some up!

[eddyramrod]

 he sleeps with my wife 

You want to keep on his good side if he's prepared to make a sacrifice like that for you!

 

In other news: happy workforce?  Couldn't agree more.  I've always worked for people who believe in "divide and conquer" so I'm definitely looking at that from the brown-grass side of the fence.

[Captain Furious]

Valve clearance are an often forgotten service item. They've probably not been checked since it was built

This is true, however I’d expect unchecked valve clearances to get bigger if anything, not close up. Plus if it had had, as the seller contended, a top end rebuild for hardened valve seats, they would have been set as part of that work.

 

I’m not too worried, i’ll Probably end up just running it as the other guy suggested and see if it happens again. Having to add lead substitute every tank is no biggy, I’m just over the moon I’ve finally cracked the idling problem and it ticks over in a manner you would expect from the majestic* cologne V6