How rusty...

[Bren]

...does your car have to get before you decide enough is enough?

 

I posted a thread about wifey' s fiesta last week and how I had to repair the sill, even though I know that fiesta's do rot I was pissed off that a looked after, low mileage car could suffer like this.

 

I do believe the old adage that once you start welding a car it is in most cases the beginning of the end ( unless you are restoring a classic), more than likely I will now look for something that is maybe higher mileage than what we have but is'nt starting to suffer structurally.

 

I sometimes think that we should'nt have to be welding cars in 2014, however the likes of ford and mazda will no doubt ensure that in many workshops mig welding does'nt become a dying art.

[mat_the_cat]

I do believe the old adage that once you start welding a car it is in most cases the beginning of the end

 

I think it marks the point at which you really have to like the car to continue using it as a daily, once you start investing time/money into welding.

[laser wheels]

I feel your pain. The Puma is the same age as your Fiesta and is much the same with the offside sill top going badly in my case. It looks good from 20 feet away but up close you can see the rot has set in. There was one of those 'Black Edition' Kas in the works car park the other day and it was as rotten as a 1970s Datsun. It looked like you could just rip the entire sill off with you bare hands. I was amazed a car in that advanced state of decomposition could even legally be on the road. Absolutely shocking for cars being built in the 21st century!

[gordonbennet]

Older cars used to perforate visibly so you had a constant ugly rust reminder and if you had any sense took whatever preventative measures you could, more modern stuff with plastic bumpers sill covers etc the rots going on underneath unseen.

 

People got too much money now or are cars relatively cheap compared with earnings, we've got the oldest daily runners where we live, and i've got nearly the oldest daily at work, apart from a Pug 205 who is a member here.

 

I never see another car jacked up round here, not even the bonnet raised where we live, must have money to bloody burn, or maybe the car gets left until it packs up, dunno.

 

Maybe people don't care about anything any more, easy come easy go in lots of walks of life.

[John F]

My main limit appears to be time.

 

I plated 20 holes in the 1992 Calibra 2.0 8v that I'd planned on stripping for usable body panels but then ended up passing on to my cousin 'cos I couldn't bring myself to scrap it.

The Maserati has had many, many holes plugged and there are more still to do.

The Disco has had its entire arse replaced.

 

I reckon that it's not a matter of money – if you like something then it should be saved, end of. Which means knowing (or learning) how to weld so that this becomes possible without being financially ruinous.

[dollywobbler]

My 2CV is absolutely borked. The nearside inner rear wing has just crumbled away over the past few months. The rear light panel is falling away and large holes above the windscreen have simply been covered with aluminium tape. It will not pass another MOT. Even a blind tester would be able to see the rust!

 

Still not sure what I'm going to do with it. I suspect I'll drive it until the MOT expires, then shove her away in the garage in the hope I'll one day be able to afford a rebuild (again). 

 

It certainly is true that once the welding starts, the car is living on borrowed time UNLESS that work is done well. If it's just MOT-standard patches and a dollop of underseal, then the car is not going to survive. Patches rot from the inside out, so there has to be some way of protecting the unseen side of the patch too. That's where things get difficult. I've watched my 2CV slowly rot away again, and it's all the unpainted surfaces that are the problem. New sills just rotted from the inside out, because they weren't painted inside. Same with the bonnet hinge and the windscreen panel. In fact, every bit that was replaced 10-12 years ago has rotted out. Time to start again.

[mercrocker]

I should really have learned to weld.    However whilst there was a steady supply of cheap, driveable "proper" (i.e. pre 1990) cars around it never seemed to matter.   Somebody always took on my rusty heap and I could always find a replacement for a couple of weeks wages.   About a dozen years ago stuff seemed to dry up, very little in the way of Mk2 Grannies or W123 Mercs in post office window small ads or the local paper.   As it seemed these had sadly passed into KLAASIK status I either had to move with the times or go back.   As the first option was, and remains, unspeakable I ended up with 50s/60s cars as daily users as I did throughout the 70s and 80s.   Chucking them away when they go rusty is not the option it used to be, firstly I am very aware of the history that I am now in charge of and secondly any replacement vehicle is likely to be just as rusty, probably in places I have already had repaired in my own car.   So, I probably spend as much having old Morrises welded up as I would spend on buying a three/four year old Audi or something.   I have no use, desire or need for a three or four year old car and if I am going to chuck money at welding something and keeping it running its going to be on cars I am interested in.   I do worry about sustaining this into retirement but if I keep the buggers going while I can afford it they might see me out!

[320touring]

I think that the level of rust/work that is acceptable is directly related to how much attachment you have to a car.

 

Some in my fleet would be in reciept of full nut/bolt/panel rebuilds..others may get a small patch if they're lucky

[NorfolkNWeigh]

With my last Disco, it wasn't the annual patchathon for the MOT that killed it ,rather the other jobs that needed doing that meant actually purchasing parts. That and the fact that any running and driving TDi Land Rover is worth £500 and spending £500 on it would raise its value to £700.

I don't recall ever spending more than £50 having bits of filing cabinet stuck on various Land Rovers, but then I am notoriously tight. Last week the 600 would have been bridge bound if it needed more than £50 spending for MOT.

Although I'm about to spend £500 on MrsN's CLK's wheel arches - no welding,the paint just falls off every 4 years or so. I made a rod for my own back ( and wallet) by getting it for her 40th,she'd always wanted a red Merc convertible . Now I can't ever get rid of the Teutonic money pit, just as well it only gets used for summer,imagine how rusty it would be if it ha seen salt in the last 8 years.

[Des]

I would cheerfully buzz and crackle my way through 500 miles of mig wire before bothering myself with any DMF, Addpoo, Sonic Boom Boy Toys'r'us bollocks found on modern shit, and come to think of it I already have. Always found the big problem is time, if there's plenty, then all the rot gets exterminated otherwise it's just papering over cracks.

[danthecapriman]

I don't mind welding and making new panels/patches up, actually I enjoy doing it!

Put it this way, I'd much rather weld than deal with engine management crap, fuel injection faults, using code readers and laptops etc etc. I just have absolutely no time or patience for cars like that at all!

Rust, welding, carburettors, bring em on, I love em!

[forddeliveryboy]

^^ Agree. I'm beginning to see older carbs as things of beauty - both in appearance and the simple, reliable way they do a decent job of dosing the engine with fuel and air. Not quite as accurately as it's done today, but 1000 times simpler. No electrics, electronics, wires or anything. I'd be much more keen on welding an old car up if it were intrinsically reliable in old age.

 

It's interesting how makers spec different steel qualities through a model's life. Merc 124s started off with high grade stuff, which by '95/'96 had deteriorated to what you'd expect of a washing machine. Presumably they were keen to reduce costs as well as try and make sure 124s weren't still going when their replacements were rotting out, something most maufacturersappear to do.

 

DW - post two or three pics of the tail panel, sometimes a complete replacement isn't necessary. Not so sure what you mean with your "that's where it gets difficult" comment on protecting the insides of box sections - drill a few holes and pressure inject your favourite preservative. If you can be bothered to spend a couple of hours repeating this every other year, things will last yonks.

[Bren]

I am somewhat depressed looking at the price of comparable fiesta's to my other half's.

 

Lots available which is a bad thing.

 

Car has genuine 53 k on the clock and ghia mod cons - even has service books and spare key.

 

I could'nt stand letting it go for £4-500, when I know that a comparable focus would cost at least £1500.

 

Decisions, decisions.

[derskine]

My diesel 18 is very very rotten, I've spent the past week repairing the drivers inner wing and this week I'm moving onto the drivers a post and floor, the other side requires the same time investment.

 

That's roughly two weeks per side welding every night after work and at the weekends.

Not to mention both sills need fabricated and replaced, both rear inner arches need replaced and both rear outer arches need replaced.

 

It's probably about 2 months work, I can't say I'm that attached to the car itself apart from it's astounding fuel economy, but, it is a rare car and perhaps the only GTD left in the UK.

 

To be fair I don't have a lot else to do, sorting cars is all I really do, so I welcome massive projects like this.

[sierraman]

Wife's fiesta is in need of constant mot time welding. Problem is I'm loathsome to squander another £800 to get another car when I can get by spend £100 here and there to keep it going.

[richardmorris]

I gave up on my CX DTR when the subframe parted company with the body. I'd already had it welded a lot, but this was the final straw. Apparently some lunatic is even now restoring it 8 years after I sold it.

 

The 2CV needs the occasional tickle with the welder, and I found another spot yesterday that will need doing soonish - wire brushed the worse rot and shutzed it for now.

[Stanky]

My Nissan has had welding carried out on the rear of both sills prior to my ownership, but the passenger side one has dramatically crumbled in the last 3-4 months. At the start of the summer it just looked a bit scabby, its now become a gaping hole about 8 inches long and 6 wide. the whole end running up to the wheelarch is just rust, basically.

 

I've been toying with the idea of getting it welded but I'm loath to have it done before the MOT on the basis its money wasted if the dampers and other known problem areas also let it down and I get a long list of failure points. Its a shame, but it was bought as a £400 car nearly 3 years ago, and I live about a mile from the sea, so rust is always going to be something I need to keep a close eye on. Since Almeras were well known for rot - "honest" John reckons it was killing them after 7-8 years - and mine is 18 and a half, I reckon its not had a bad innings, though if rust is the only MOT fail point I'll probably get it done this time around.

[vulgalour]

Definitely worth doing if you're attached to the car, not so much if you're not.  Case in point with the Princess really, the amount of metal I'm putting back in would consign a lesser vehicle to the weighbridge but I can't bring myself to do it with this one, it has very much become more than just a metal box.  In fact, if the Xantia had rotted to the same extent I'd have no qualms about binning it, although some of that is to do with how much of an ARSE Citroens are to weld.

[Split_Pin]

I just saved up put my car into the garage, with repair panels/sections supplied where available and got it done properly.Now I just have a good butchers before every winter, pick up anything that looks like it is starting to corroded and have it dealt with. Hopefully it should just be bits and pieces from now on.

[vulgalour]

And now I can show off the biggest patch I've ever attempted to weld into a car.  There's more to do, but this is the worst of it.  Just wish the welder wasn't playing silly buggers.

 

 

Who was it with an 1100/1300 on here that replace THE WHOLE FLOOR?  That was impressive.

[New POD]

Well, after smashing up an astra mk3 (the 3rd mk3 astra I'd written off), I bought a Volvo S40 Sport 1.8 VVT petrol fOR £350.

 

I war reliably informed by a Volvo specialist that the VVT shaft was on it's way out and would ultimately kill the emissions, and/or eventually the engine, and I just drive it, until that happened.

 

I had it 6 months, took it from 140K to 150K until the gearbox (a Renault item) imploded on the motorway.

 

I priced up a S/H box and offered it to a Volvo only breaker for £350, (the one who had a gearbox for £150). He bit my hand off. The car was 12 years old and had not 1 gram of rust anywhere on it, but if you went on any Volvo forum there were 100 people attempting to flog off bits, after they'd priced up any particular repair, and decided to buy a focus.

 

Now the rust issue. Take the MX5 we have. Any repair is likely to be cheap, and with so many cars bodged on the sills, when I start cutting, I really don't care what I find. I'm saving this car, and eventually, it'll be a classic and we'll pottle in our old age.

[catsinthewelder]

The Disco was supposed to be welded on Sunday but a late start and other jobs put paid to that. I've still not touched it with the mig in six months of owning it although I did need to patch up it's second hand exhaust before fitting it. I think it would have been uneconomic to MOT if I couldn't weld but we all knew that when I bought it.

 

The Cherry has patches on both sills and could do with another on the front valence and on a rear strut tower but is generally doing very well for a 30 year old Datsun.

 

The other two have had loads of welding but that's to be expected with cheap classics.

 

I dont think the first patch you have to blezz onto a modern is necessary the beginning of the end. Most cars have a rust trap somewhere that will eventually need welding, sometimes though that rust trap will start at the front valence and end at the tailpipe ( see ADO16).

[mercrocker]

10 years of Minor ownership (and daily driving thru winter shite) has resulted in the following repairs....

 

New boot floor (boot lid is rotten but haven't replaced that yet....)

OSR inner wheel arch complete

NS and OS rear spring hangers

Sub-floor under rear seat

NSR inner wheel arch repairs

Both sills, inner and outer and flitch panels

All 4 door bottoms and both B post bottoms

OSF chassis leg back to gearbox x member and associated flitch panel with repairs to front inner wing

NSF inner wing repairs

Both front wings

 

On Thursday its going for estimates on NSF chassis leg, complete and both front floor pans although I probably will leave the driver side for another year unless there is a big discount for both!

 

I have now spent 200percent of the original purchase price on welding alone but even that only equates to approximately a tenner a week over the 10 years.   I know for a fact I have spent at least twice that on beer and half that amount on lottery tickets and syndicates at work, etc.

 

If beer turns to piss and lottery wins never happen then I can expect no more from steel than it turn, at some point, to rust....

 

I have just come back from a great weekend at a steam rally, the Minor pulled our caravan for 70 miles without complaint and took me to work, as usual this morning after being in a show line up for three days patted, smiled at and reminding people of what they used to have.   I think that's all worth a tenner a week, and I am pretty sure Morris does as well....

[Station]

Look at how rusty my old MR2 was:

 

 

 

 

This went to an MR2 breakers.

[drum]

This is my least rusty land rover. Apologies for the heavy breathing.

[HillmanImp]

I know I have carted these out many times before but the rustiest car I ever dealt with was the Fulvia:

 

 

And that was the easy bit. It was the same on the other side and then I had to do the subframe and mounts. But the car was only £1,500, we got to smoke around in it for a year and it sold for £3,800.

 

Suppose if you can weld you may as well, or if the welding is cheaper than getting a replacement then you may as well too, who is to say that new car will not need welding after just one winter due to hidden rot bubbling through (and as its newer will need complicated electrical emmisions wizardry etc).

 

Most work I have ever done on a car is on the Imp though:

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/9817-hillman-imp-deg-532c/?hl=deg+532c

 

It will be coming up to 4 years since I last touched it when it was locked up in a garage 15 miles away from home. Need to get shot of the Triumph and get this back over to mine to prep for a respray. I have spent considerably more on storing it than it will ever be worth, let alone the time I put into it.

 

I think I might book a week off in October to get the Triumph MOT'd and get it resprayed in spring (it just needs a new sill and inner sill putting on plus a 'little work' on the floor).

[Bren]

A work colleague has just bought an 07 plate ka for his son.

 

He went to look at an 06 example with sills that crunched under hand pressure.

 

Abysmal - ford seem to get away with it though.

[Albert Ross]

Nearly 11 years ago I bought my current daily Land Rover of eBay. Advertised as needing a week's worth of welding.... I didn't realise the vendor meant 24/7. I bought a new replacement galvanised chassis. £1700. I welded a few small holes in the bulkhead. The remains of the bodywork is Aluminium alloy except for the panel between the wings. That's remarkably solid. That's eBay rare. Cos these things rot. The chassis sat in my garden for a few years..... and then I put it together in one weekend. MOT failed nicely, on brake balance, dodgy electrics etc.... luckily, I'm the tester ad had a few spares in the back. Two hours work and it passed. So yeah, rotten vehicles and TLC, I reckon Land Rovers deserve saving. I have 2 more in the pipeline. One of them, is quite early, and a rare Military variant. The chassis alone is £2300. It needs a bulkhead. £900 or so? Wings are incorrect, they need ATU mountings on. From about £100 a pair for decent restorable used ones. That one's going to earn me money. The other is cut in half. I'm going to lob a large motor in it and use it as a flat bed wrecker. It'll be worth nowt.. but will take lots of work.

[warninglight]

And now I can show off the biggest patch I've ever attempted to weld into a car.  There's more to do, but this is the worst of it.  Just wish the welder wasn't playing silly buggers.

 

 

Who was it with an 1100/1300 on here that replace THE WHOLE FLOOR?  That was impressive.

 

That might have been me...

 

Did the sills too!

 

 

Alas when it comes to the actual pretty bits, I'm a bit shit. Full respray just over a year ago and it's been dry stored ever since and the rear arches which were pretty good are falling to pieces already!

[vulgalour]

That's the job!  Absolutely legendary to replace pretty much the entire car, an inspiration to me and hopefully others.