Just a bit frustrated, don´t bother...

[Lukas]

Morning! 

 

I just want to tell you about my car-related frustration that did rise in my head yesterday.

 

Yesterday, I just wanted to drive to the Wörthersee in Carinthia. No, I havent bought me a VW Golf and

No, there isnt a VW/Audi-meeting there at the moment. I just wanted to drive there because it´s nice there. 

It´s 220km one way, so should not be a problem. 

 

The only car I own that is allowed to drive during winter is my Galloper, so I sat in and drove off. Ok, it´s not 

the ideal autobahn-car, a healthy 110 km/h (approx. 70 mph) at 3250 rpm in fifth gear is soul-distroying. 

And even at that slow speed, the diesel-engine is so loud, my head was pounding after I got home again. 

 

 

But that wasn´t the problem and that is not the reason for my frustration. This is: 

 

After one and a half hours of driving, I stopped to go for a pee. When I left the autobahn, the clutch pedal

felt very light, there wasnt a clear point where the clutch engaged. Felt strange. But OK, pee first and try

later. When I came back to the car after a few minutes, the clutch worked fine again, maybe the -11°C 

might have helped to cool the system down quite fast. I don´t know, as I am not a mechanic sadly. 

 

At acceleration onto the autobahn again, in fourth gear and pedal to the metal (neccessary with only 99hp 

at almost 2 tons weight), the clutch suddenly slipped for a moment. Just for a moment. 

 

Oh no, I thought, not a clutch-failure now. But as I was alone in the car without Mrs. Lukas and the litte

Lukas, I pressed on because I just wanted to see the Wörthersee. 

 

The clutch behaved until I got there and it was as beautiful as always. 

 

 

But while driving the lake-road there, the clutch started to slip a bit more, mainly in third and fourth gear

during acceleration. So I took a picture and drove home again without any detours because I did not know

how long the clutch system would work and I had to drive the 200km home again. On saturday, there is 

no mechanic available. 

 

When I got home, thankfully, frustration kicked right in yo! 

 

You cant blame the Galloper for a worn out clutch system. Maybe it´s the first clutch in there, I dont know. 

 

But I am a bit fed up with owning old cars now. Why?

 

Because at almost every drive, especially if I take my family with me, I have all the little foibles of my cars

in mind. And at an older car, there always is something that needs looking at. And now I might have come 

to a point where I am fed up with worn out old cars because I want piece of mind while driving, especially 

with our little toddler in the car. I dont want to worry if the car will make it home again or not. 

 

Yesterday, I would have wanted to look at things, drive around at the Wörthersee, maybe visit Klagenfurt,

the capital of Carinthia, look at some nice castles on the way, but I did not. Why? Because my old car 

discovered another foible that made me unsure if it might make it home again. 

 

 

So in my current state of mind and with my current older-car-frustation, I might be tempted to sell at least 

two of my three old bangers and get me one newer car. 

 

Mrs. Lukas bought a 2010 Honda CR-V with ~ 40.000km on the clock in 2015. She bought new tires and

since then, she just drives the car. It´s her daily driver to get to work and shopping and we take it if we go on

holidays or visit the relatives. It has been our family-car for almost 40.000km now, so it´s got 80.000km on

the clock by now and every kilometer was a bit boring maybe, but uneventful in a good way. 

 

No strange noises, no electronic problem, no hasitation to start, no little foibles, no repaires needed, no nothing.

Yes, it´s ugly, boring and not that entertaining to drive. But it just get´s you where you want to go without any

concerns whatsoever. We were in Italy, Germany and Croatia in it and travelled almost complete Austria.

 

Of course, the car was expensive, so I could have at least two of my old ones restored for the money one

newer one costs. But getting older ones repaired means something broke or is worn out. Some hundred

kilometers away from home with the sleeping toddler in the back on a rainy saturday afternoon?

 

 

What to you think? Am I just a bit frustrated at the moment or might that be the turning point and the start of a

transformation from a shiter to a new-car-guy? I hope not... 

 

Lukas

[dollywobbler]

Just a bit frustrated. We've all been there. Truth is, older cars do need a bit of looking after. Keep the faith!

[Skizzer]

I feel your frustration, and like to have something modern on the fleet so I can be pretty confident of getting to work (which is often 300km away) or catching a flight.

 

However, someone will be along in a minute to tell you that all modern cars are shit especially [insert German-owned brand here] and less reliable than a well serviced [insert British Leyand badge here]. Which might be true for them but it's not been my experience.

I feel your frustration, and like to have something modern on the fleet so I can be pretty confident of getting to work (which is often 300km away) or catching a flight.

 

However, someone will be along in a minute to tell you that all modern cars are shit especially [insert German-owned brand here] and less reliable than a well serviced [insert British Leyand badge here]. Which might be true for them but it's not been my experience.

 

Edit: Dollywobbler put it better. Don't give up on the oldsters.

[JeeExEll]

Have you ever considered buying a Wartburg?

[Lukas]

Have you ever considered buying a Wartburg?

 

Ähhh, No! 

[garethj]

Here's my experience.  I've got 2 old (1999 seems new to me, but it's ancient to everyone else) cars and they get used for everything.  Family holidays, daily commute, shopping trips, everything.  They get serviced once a year and that's it.

 

Never had a breakdown, nothing has gone wrong that's worse than a headlight bulb.  One car does 15,000 miles a year, the other does about 10,000 so don't think they're reliable because they never go anywhere.

 

This has been the case for the last few years, how do I achieve this miracle that makes a Toyota Corolla look like a TVR for reliability?

 

First, I choose the car carefully.  One that's got a reasonable reputation for being reliable.

Second, buy one that's in good condition.  Low mileage is good but one that's been cared for is what you really want.

Third, use a trusted mechanic and get things replaced when they're needed.

Fourth, you need some luck too.  There are plenty of people with brand new cars that are at the dealers every few months, some of it is down to luck.

 

If you feel the need to get rid of your current cars and get something more reliable, just do it.  Don't feel bad, or guilty.  It's only a car, if it doesn't work out then you can change it again.

 

Smile!

[EssDeeWon]

Moderns don't ever fail...  Especially the expensive ones...

 

 

 

[Junkman]

Whoever buys a car with a clutch, it's his own fault.

[Lukas]

 

 

Moderns don't ever fail...

 

Of course they do. 

 

Now you just have to tell me old Toyotas never do... 

 

 

[Asimo]

I understand how you feel but with cars, but even when you feel secure with them this feeling is a bit false.

Any car can have a puncture, a broken windscreen, battery fail or run out of fuel, even if it is a new Honda.

These happenings are common compared to real mechanical failiure.

 

For me the best way to feel secure is to know my car and understand how it works. And have membership of a rescue service just in case.

 

As for the clutch slip, I wonder if it is cold related? If there was ice forming in old clutch fluid or something?

 

Why is the Mitsubishi allowed to drive, not the Honda? Four wheel drive? Is that the law in Austria?

[Lukas]

Why is the Mitsubishi allowed to drive, not the Honda? Four wheel drive? Is that the law in Austria?

 

 

It´s not really a lw-related thing, only my own law.    Both Pajeros are hibernating until April when the salt has gone,

so from my three old cars, only the Hyundai Galloper is used during winter. 

 

And my wife with the toddler is at her parents place over weekend with the CR-V, so from the two of our cars that we drive

all over the year, only the Galloper was available for me. 

 

Regarding new cars that fail too: 

 

I guess most new cars fail on complicated hightech like automatic parking brakes or overly-complicated modern diesel-

enginges or dpfs making trouble. But if you choose your modern car carefully and pick one with less complicated mechanicals

like a n/a-petrol-engine for example, it should be more reliable as an old one, or am I wrong in thinking that? 

 

The old ones may be less complicated and may be very reliable too, but it´s wear and tear that affects the old ones. Newer 

cars just are not so worn out usually I guess. 

[Bfg]

Lukas, it strikes me that your choice of car is older but not old-timer.  The distinction here being that to many of us old giffers - the old-timers are simple enough to learn about and generally to fix (whether carburettor, ignition, mechanics, or electrics)  ..whereas the 'older' modern cars are almost as complex in their systems as a new car (except for having less features) but are often less reliable (perhaps because they were previously owned by people who also didn't understand them).  For the likes of me ; 'older' cars are, on the whole, to be garage fixed. Whereas old-timers can often be fixed at home or at the side of the road. 

 

For example my old Shitreon has a clutch cable rather than hydraulics. If it needs adjusting at the side of the road I can do that, but also the because the system is so crude - it's also very reliable.  You'd probably find an old-timer VW Beetle is equally as easy to fix, whereas a 1990's VW Golf would end up in the garage again. 

 

The other thing is that you have different makes of car, and that makes learning about their systems and mechanics twice as difficult.  Whatever marque best suits your driving pleasure then I'd recommend you move towards just one make,  and then take the time to learn to do all your own maintenance. 

 

Own maintenance leads to confidence, and then onto do the next level of complexity - diagnostics and repair.  In time you will learn about many aspects of the car and build the confidence because you'll not only learn how to fix them, but you'll also learn to know when something like a clutch slipping is about to give up all together, or will continue slipping (occasionally) for the next 10,000km  !?   I and many others have an older or an old-timer for pleasure in addition to a soul-less mode of transport.  You appear to have two or more older cars and your wife has the the soul-less mode of transport. Perhaps you might sell one of the older cars, and get yourself something cheap and soul-less but then focus your attention and your learning on the one classic. ? 

 

But remember, as others have said - that all cars have 'consumables' which will wear out : clutch,  tyres,  windscreen wipers, brakes, engine parts, lubricants, and anything that moves relative to another part, such as bearings, etc.   That's a given for any mode of transport whether vintage or brand new.  

 

And that all cars have their own particular weakness or foible - where they break easily, wear out fast, or are generally troublesome.  Join an enthusiasts club where other members have that same type of car - to share the experiences and learn from each other. 

 

Hope that is in some way helpful,

Bfg

[alcyonecorporation]

You want one of those nice early Porches (sic) from Gmünd.

[alcyonecorporation]

Whoever buys a car with a clutch, it's his own fault.

 

Mumble mumble chinese tosh maintenance free Rovers vapour lock etc

[Mr Lobster]

Lukas, I know exactly how you feel.

 

And as much as I like old cars I cover going up towards 20k a year in my daily. I need it to work. I need it to be reliable, uneventful and just work. And that's exactly what it does. I don't want to spend my weekends fixing stuff.

 

As much as it's not a popular opinion around these parts, for the boring, mundane journeys it's just easier to have something newish. New cars are in the main very reliable, choose carefully and maintain it properly and there's no reason most modern stuff won't see 200k without bother and the reality is that new stuff is easier to live with day to day. I love older cars but wouldn't want to try and use a Renault 4 like I do my Skoda.

[DSdriver]

You can't blame a car if service items need replacing - they are designed to wear out. So your choices are, either buy a new car and replace it every two years suffering horrendous depreciation, or drive older cars, having more than one as a backup plan.

Of course it sometimes gets difficult - last week the XM sprang a hydraulic leak and as I had agreed to take some friends to the London boat show I had to get the DS23 out. On one of those rare days when it snowed in England and the gritters were out in force. Bugger.

[garethj]

There are things you can do to stack the odds in your favour.  Start off with something that was unreliable when new and add 20 years of neglect, it will probably break down a lot.  My Land Rover was an excellent example, although it never broke down it always had something that was on the way to breaking.

 

A cared for example of a reliable car can go on being reliable for years, but don't be afraid to spend money on what is needed and don't be afraid of getting rid of it when reliability starts to fail.

 

All cars can let you down, maybe investing in good roadside recovery is the important thing and having a courtesy car available.  That's what the new cars come with.

[Bfg]

^ imo roadside recovery is very much a last resort,  whereas the above post and others seem to suggest it's something you use for reassurance.  In the instance of Lukas driving 200km to visit beautiful country and lakeside - I personally feel that roadside recovery would add nothing to the enjoyment - because being broken down 200km from home and getting trailered back is no fun at all.   Nor indeed is having the car towed to a nearby garage and being given a courtesy car - And then being faced with a non-competitive (!) garage bill, as well as having to get the car back home the following weekend.

 

And something like* a clutch beginning to slip, and threatening more is something that is unavoidable on any car, of any age, of any make.  Firstly even nearly cars often have far greater mileage (wear) than an old car.  A vehicle's age has nothing to do with clutch wear, whereas driving manner, whether town or open highway, and overall distance covered are much greater influences. 

 

* ..before you guys who are thinking of automatics reply without reading; 'something like' is not specific to manual transmission, nor even to clutch, it might be a coolant issue, brakes, a strange noise, a puncture or whatever.  I only say 'something like a clutch slipping' because that was where this conversation started - thank you

 

It is also worth remembering that almost every vehicle manufacturer has at sometime in their history had to recall new vehicles, or at least to 'factory change' things during routine servicing - because a component or system was prone to fail ...sometimes catastrophically.!  So, even brand new cars are not immune to failure.  In fact - in this respect older cars have the benefit of having known issues !   

 

Likewise new replacement parts, whether from a main dealer or after market, are known to sometimes fail ..soon after being fitted. Manufacturing of everyday parts (..from any industry) very rarely have a 100% non-fail rating.  And there are 10,000 parts in your car.!  That's life in this particular era of industrialisation !

 

 

The maths : a nearly new soul-less low quality car may (for example) cost 10,000 euros, and unless you have that sort of cash then there will also be interest to repay.  A decent low mileage but higher quality unfashionable older model Autoshiter might (for example) cost 2,000 euros.  That's 8,000 euros plus interest on the loan which can be used to keep your decent quality Autoshiter in mechanical first class order.  As long as corrosion, accident damage or repainting is not involved (so buy carefully) then 8,000 will go a very long way indeed.    And most 'older' cars can be maintained / frequently serviced / repaired by a wide choice of good quality competitively priced mechanics.   Conversely,  your new car will need to go back to the main agent for the first year or two (otherwise their guarantee is void) ..and they will charge you twice the money.

 

So, with a good mechanic (who well knows that type of vehicle) and frequent servicing,  plus a bit of judicious planning - you can anticipate what is about to wear out and when it needs changing.  Your car's clutch (for example) might normally need changing every 100,000 km (depending on how you drive).,  so by planning to change it every 90,000km - you can help avoid the inevitable failure / worry / unreliability.    (..and with every second clutch change - you might want to change the crank / gear shaft oil seals as well ).  

 

Running an old car successfully is not unlike budgeting your income. It just takes a bit of time to sort it out, to get into a routine, and to plan for the big bills.   It's not absolutely fool proof of course, but it does go a long way to smoothing things out. as well as easing your worries   

 

Bfg

[NorfolkNWeigh]

If I didn't have to have a modern car for my business, I think I'd take my chances with old shite most of the time, but look at renting for particularly arduous/ important journies. Ive hired an Insignia diesel for £70 for a weekend before now and returned it with 2,000 miles of hard driving under its wheels. Even though there have been things sitting around that I could have used and probably* would have coped , after all 30 years ago something like my e34 520 would have been bought just for those hard fast winter journies.

So, my advice keep the shite and find a friendly local independent rental place , your journey to Worthersee would have been fun* in a Twingo or an Up!, the fuel saving would probably cancel out the retail fee.

[alcyonecorporation]

 

Mumble mumble chinese tosh maintenance free Rovers vapour lock etc

 

Also, my SVX was cheap. And I bought it off a div.

[Lacquer Peel]

Should've brought a Calibra mate.

[alcyonecorporation]

Should've brought a Calibra mate.

There are corners where I live.

[xtriple]

I have had/wife has had, many new cars and bikes. A couple of the new cars were dreadful unreliable sacks of shit (no 'e') even given that we did no mileage. These were cheap cars new... it showed. Also had rather a lot of new cars that were utterly brilliant at getting from point A to point B with minimal fuss or hassle, never went wrong and required nothing more than routine servicing. Decent cars tend to be decent shocker.

 

Also had a brand new Triumph Speed Triple (part of where my 'name' comes from) that didn't manage 9 miles before it was showing a major fault! That bike, in eighteen months spent five of them back at the factory having a new frame (no, it wasn't one of the batch with faulty frames, this one was made with no steps in the headstock for the head bearings to abut to!) a new tank (it deformed) various electrical maladies sorted... all in all, it was a pain in the arse and I utterly loved it! When finally I could live with it no more, I traded it in for another brand new bike, a Honda CB1300 'S' which had just been released, looked great and it's a Honda so will be reliable... which I really longed for.

 

It was totally reliable and dreadfully dull. Yes, the ABS saved my arse when I ballsed up, yes it had loads of torque but it ran out of puff far too early. Yes it got sold really rather quickly (for a Benelli Tornado Tre of all things - talk about unreliable!)

 

Had a Vauxhall Omega 2.2 CDX (I think) auto, brand new, ran it for years (company car) and despite all the 'worst car in the World' quotes, it was perfect.

 

Also had lots of old cars that have been utter sheds and broke on a weekly basis and others that were great and cost pennies to run. One of the best car/money combinations I ever had was a SAAB 99. It was pretty basic, pretty ancient and not pretty to look at, cost me £90 and other than putting a matching stripe on the passenger side (insulation tape in fact which was in the shed) cost me nothing in about a year! But, keeping it reliable was pretty much a constant battle: it had points that needed tickling monthly, a couple of leaks that needed attention if only topping up weekly, various lights that failed/worked pretty much as they desired.

 

So I guess the point is: you pay the money, you take the choice/chance. Good new cars, bad new cars, and good and bad old cars. The difference is; with a brand spanker, someone else is usually paying to fix it, but with an old car, you are more likely to be able to fix it yourself at the side of the road with a hammer, baler twine, duct tape or WD40.

[chaseracer]

There are corners where I live.

 

But not many hills.

[Sigmund Fraud]

[PH] Old cars are unreliable and unsafe. They're only fit for poor people. Tomorrow morning at 09.00 you must be at your local BMW/Audi/Satsuma dealership, so you can order a brand new 3 series/A4/Castagnet. [/PH]

 

Joking apart, cars do go wrong, and it's incredibly frustrating when they do. Unfortunately, this applies to both old and new cars. The difference is that a new car is more likely to go wrong in an unpredictable fashion and less likely to be repairable at the roadside.

 

The poor Galloper did destroy your day out, but still managed to bring you back home. And if you buy it a new clutch now, it shouldn't need another one for quite some time !

[Cavcraft]

I reckon we probably all get this from time to time. No harm in having one or two modern cars in the family for reliability etc (they're not all shit, despite what some people say) and then you can have an old knacker or two for pleasure.

[pshome]

Stick with one brand! Make friends with the local / internet / worldwide enthusiasts groups forums etc. Go to meetings to chat with others that share the passion. You will see, things that now look difficult will become easy: parts, advice, support, mechanics. With time, you will learn a lot about your car(s), it's weak spots, what to look after and how to avoid unpleasant surprises. At the end, you will have a much more reliable car that you can take on any trip, no matter how far, with confidence.

Tip: Stick to late 70's early 80's cars. They are modern enough to be enjoyable in todays traffic while still mechanically rather simple and parts are usally easily available.

[DSdriver]

Regular use seems to add to reliability. Shutting a car in a garage or barn for a few weeks always turns it into a prima donna.

[Squire_Dawson]

Another thing I've learnt over the years is that you can worry too much and the more you needlessly tinker the more can go wrong, so now I just stick to regular fluid checks and visual inspections of things. It's true that if you start adjusting things or changing parts needlessly you can upset the balance of the car and they don't always like it, so now I just leave things alone.

But I don't skimp on maintenance of course, just not always under the bonnet checking stuff like I used to.

[New POD]

I find the secret to owning a reliable older car, is to throw (lots of) money at it, once you find someone that understands how to fix it, and ignore their suggestions that "This will cost more to repair than it's worth"

 

I believe in Durable car ownership (within reason).

 

http://www.morrisminor.org.uk/index.php/durable-car-ownership.html

 

I am applying Charles Wares Principles to cars deigned some 45 to 50 years after the Morris Minor, and finding that it actually works well for me.

 

So yes for £200 a month or £15K we could get a decent car with a warranty.

But instead we buy a car for £600, and throw up to £1000 a year at it.  Works out cheaper.