Mk1 Rover 827 woes the my god its f**ked thread (Now Fixed)

[Motown]

So as some of you on this forum will know i own a fleet of Rovers all of which ive rescued and restored by far my favorite car and my most prized procession is my Mk1 827 fastback.... I also own a nightfire red 827 vitesse fastback but the black one really holds a special place in my heart my wife calls it my mistress because i get in it more than i do her..... Its ex met police force protection and has been the most reliable car i have ever owned..... Ive had it for some years now i love it so much i daily it and have done since i restored it about a month after it was purchased.

Its been driven all around the country and abroad its even braved the cluster fuck that is the streets of Paris sticking out like the pure erection it is among the electric taxis and mopeds that litter the streets of the french capital.

Its rarely caused me any issues or major headaches with regular servicing but about a week ago it developed a headlight fault in that the drivers side headlight with the headlights on would appear very dim. Non of the other lights were effected and it only seemed to do this when the main beam was on..... The fault didn't appear with just the side lights on or the high beams ONLY the drivers side headlight was effected with the main beam on.

I initially suspected the bulb or a bad earth but after checking the bulbs changing them and checking them again i moved on to the headlight unit which i quickly ruled out too. I then check the relays in the fuse box and the fuses themselves were all good.... However while searching for the fault discovered that a relay located at nearside of the car behind the bumper corner under the nearside headlamp just next to the rad pack had blown.... The wiring to the relay next to it had come away from the relay plug itself too.... Now i am not entirely sure the blown relay is the single direct cause for the headlight fault but as the relay is a bulb failure relay i believe it maybe connected.

HOWEVER here lies my problem I have tried just about everything for the last two days even attempted to import one from America before making this post but i simply cannot find one.... Ive been buying selling and hording Rover parts for years and despite having a box full of relays i dont have one of these..... It seems to be unique to the MK1C 800 ive tried owners clubs breakers Ebay Facebook you name it but nothing....  People don’t seem to keep them and when breaking these cars only seem to keep the mechanical parts and body panels.... 

The car is now at a garage were a friend works he also owns an 827 so is overseeing the repairs he told me the garage have removed the front bumper fixed the wiring and replaced the other common relay but are charging £55 per hour plus vat and after four hours work have yet to find the replacement relay or fix the car.

 

The Rover part number is YFD10005 and the Lucas part number is 53900024a. Please check your sheds pockets breakers and lofts etc.....  If anyone has one or knows were to source one please let me know!!! The car is otherwise sound mechanically and cosmetically its simply this fault letting it down...... I feel the fault could very easily condemn it or il be forced to take it off the road as the next MOT is due soon and there is no way it will pass with the fault.... These cars are so good and reliable I strongly believe it will be parts availability that kills them and nothing else.  

 

Long live Rovers and all who sail in them! 

[Wibble]

I feel your pain, parts for the Senator are similarly unobtainable. I can’t help of course but wish you all the luck!

[somewhatfoolish]

What's special about it? Can you get pics of both sides of the PCB etc.?

[warch]

I'd probably start by trying a direct feed to the headlight to see if the power supply has been affected. It may be worth checking the earth as well. You could check all the connections first then perhaps try an auxiliary earth.

The fault that burnt that relay out was presumably too much resistance on the low voltage side of the switch. 

[Fabergé Greggs]

Could you track down a data sheet for the relay? If so I reckon you could build something to replicate whatever function it does. 

[Ian_Fearn]

@Motownhave you tried contacting Peter Simpson from Car Mechanics magazine? I believe he has parts contacts in the USA for these wonderful weapons.

[sierraman]

Wouldn’t one from a Legend fit? They sold loads of them in USA?

[Zelandeth]

It's not just some highly overcomplicated way of implementing dim-dip is it?

Shouldn't really be too much to the supply to the headlights...even if there's something amiss there it wouldn't be hard to trigger a relay from the feed to the other side and just run a new supply to that.

[High Jetter]

Sterlingfixer.com lists it at $53.49, not sure if they have stock though: https://www.sterlingfixer.com/sterling-car-parts-search?combine=yfd10005&field_description_value=

[hairnet]

@Lord Sterling

[grogee]

3 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

It's not just some highly overcomplicated way of implementing dim-dip is it?

Shouldn't really be too much to the supply to the headlights...even if there's something amiss there it wouldn't be hard to trigger a relay from the feed to the other side and just run a new supply to that.

That's what I was thinking. I'm guessing it's a device for running the dip beam bulbs on low power while the sidelights are on. Maybe the dip beam bulb on low power count as sidelights or maybe the headlamps have another 5w bulb in and they're run together. 

I would think you could get around this by having the sidelights setting just operate the 5w bulb, then full lights doing dip/main on normal power. A selection of relays ought to achieve it. 

[greengartside]

@Motownhas Captain Mustard not got one? He had that blue one in for breaking not long ago?

Failing that, the one that was pulled out of the lake near Glasgow the other day might have one 😉

[RoverFolkUs]

1 hour ago, greengartside said:

@Motownhas Captain Mustard not got one? He had that blue one in for breaking not long ago?

Failing that, the one that was pulled out of the lake near Glasgow the other day might have one 😉

You beat me to it! Surely Paul must have every part for every Rover imaginable in his stash 😁

(Apart from the cityrover!)

[tooSavvy]

ToMM© was 'dim-dip' (J reg).

Toyota part's bin raid???

👍

[Schaefft]

17 hours ago, Wibble said:

I feel your pain, parts for the Senator are similarly unobtainable. I can’t help of course but wish you all the luck!

I think I can get you pretty much any Senator part you'd need, as long as it's from a Senator B.

[Wibble]

25 minutes ago, Schaefft said:

I think I can get you pretty much any Senator part you'd need, as long as it's from a Senator B.

Thanks @SchaefftI know you have a friend with a stash of spares. I’m still after a rear ABS sensor if that’s possible?

[Schaefft]

5 minutes ago, Wibble said:

Thanks @SchaefftI know you have a friend with a stash of spares. I’m still after a rear ABS sensor if that’s possible?

I can definitely ask, abs sensors are always tricky though. I'll send you a pm.

[Wibble]

Thanks @Schaefft👍, sorry for thread interruption @Motown

[Motown]

17 hours ago, somewhatfoolish said:

What's special about it? Can you get pics of both sides of the PCB etc.?

Special as in it was only on the MK1C with trip computers and i cant fucking find one! 🤣

[Motown]

8 hours ago, Fabergé Greggs said:

Could you track down a data sheet for the relay? If so I reckon you could build something to replicate whatever function it does. 

Currently looking at having a custom relay built by a company on the interwebs...

[Motown]

8 hours ago, Ian_Fearn said:

@Motownhave you tried contacting Peter Simpson from Car Mechanics magazine? I believe he has parts contacts in the USA for these wonderful weapons.

No but i will do now! Do you have his details? Cheers! 

[Motown]

6 hours ago, sierraman said:

Wouldn’t one from a Legend fit? They sold loads of them in USA?

I dont think the legends had the same trip computer so they would be no need for the relay! 

[Motown]

4 hours ago, High Jetter said:

Sterlingfixer.com lists it at $53.49, not sure if they have stock though: https://www.sterlingfixer.com/sterling-car-parts-search?combine=yfd10005&field_description_value=

I have emailed them apparently they have ONE in stock 

[Motown]

2 hours ago, greengartside said:

@Motownhas Captain Mustard not got one? He had that blue one in for breaking not long ago?

Failing that, the one that was pulled out of the lake near Glasgow the other day might have one 😉

Captain Mustard is a good friend of mine ive been in a few of his videos.... Sadly he doesnt have one! 

[Motown]

1 hour ago, RoverFolkUs said:

You beat me to it! Surely Paul must have every part for every Rover imaginable in his stash 😁

(Apart from the cityrover!)

Nope he doesnt have much in the way of 80s early 90s stuff! 

[Motown]

1 hour ago, tooSavvy said:

ToMM© was 'dim-dip' (J reg).

Toyota part's bin raid???

👍

Please elaborate if you can help  

[Motown]

***Update***

I decided to remove the relay from my 827 Vitesse which is also a MK1C and run a few tests this is what i discovered..... 

This first video shows the lights on (main beam) with the relay still in the car...

 

The second video shows the main beam again on with the relay removed..... Notice that although the lights work without the relay they are sufficiently dimmer and all four lights are active now the relay has been removed....

Notice the other two lights are on without the relay...... STRANGE! 

So i am guessing here but the relay must decide how much voltage goes where as well as notifying the trip computer if a bulb is blown......  In the burned out relay on the car with the fault only a couple of circuits were fused.... My guess is it must have been running one side of the lights no problem it blew an took out the drivers side circuit. Maybe a bad earth or corrosion on the drivers side increased the resistance an blew the relay either way i need to source a replacement relay or hope i can have one remade as the car wont pass an MOT without it and i certainly wouldn't want to drive at night.

I did this to hopefully rule out the relay being needed or even been the cause of the problem but clearly it is needed and has either caused the fault or contributed to it.

[sierraman]

Would it make sense to just bypass the existing system and make up a 12v feed from another Rover? 

[Motown]

16 minutes ago, sierraman said:

Would it make sense to just bypass the existing system and make up a 12v feed from another Rover? 

Id like to keep the car as original as possible also i worry in bypassing anything on an old rover (especially one which relies heavily on electronics) it will solve one issue but create many more issues elsewhere on the car. 

[Ian_Fearn]

2 hours ago, Motown said:

No but i will do now! Do you have his details? Cheers! 

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