F**ked Black Rover 827 SLi - The Mistake Machine

[S2000]

Would you consider a roffle on this?  Keep it in the fold for 13 quid a ticket?

[HMC]

I was keen on this as well and nearly did a buy, pretty much my ultimate 800.

[Tetleysmooth]

2 hours ago, DodgeRover said:

Is the S type cheap enough to be an engine donor?

I don't think he'll actually sell it. it's only done 60 odd thou. it's in Ireland at the mo, but still wearing it's British plates.

[St.Jude]

On 3/24/2023 at 8:18 PM, vaughant said:

Didn't these things have some ridiculous battery reset procedure involving holding down brake pedals or some other Austin Rover nonsense?

I take it you've gone directly to the starter and bridged across to see if it will at least crank over?

And if so put some Lynx or brake cleaner in the air intake to at least get it running for a few seconds?

I could look through the wiring diagram for the start/charge circuit to see if there's anything obvious to check?

I'd even consider bypassing the whole existing battery earth but putting a jump lead from the earth post to the body. If the tray has rotted away that could be your bad earth.

From what I can gather, the immobiliser can be an issue if the battery is changed and the cars not locked or some shit. I’ve locked it, unlocked it, and it’s not done anything.

A friend of mine has suggested that some Hondas can have an issue starting if there’s a problem with the neutral switch on the selector. But I’m more inclined to think there’s a relay or a ground at fault.

11 hours ago, TheXUDfiles said:

Sorry if I sound like I'm teaching anybody to suck eggs but is it possible that the battery is so fucked it won't even respond to a jump pack? I've had that happen before, and thought the car was totally dead as well.

In my experience anything less than 03.00v won't even crank.

 

 

It looks to have a new battery. I had intended to take the battery out of my Land Cruiser and try it with that. Could well do that but I need the day to do it.

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, S2000 said:

Would you consider a roffle on this?  Keep it in the fold for 13 quid a ticket?

Sorry for the double post but couldn’t add this to my last reply.

I don’t know, honestly. I’d sooner it was bought outright, and while I’d get the money the winner would still have to sort transport as it won’t drive, and won’t pass an MOT even with the pre booked test.

I should point out something as well, because as I’ve slept on it and I want to be clear regarding something:

I am not punting it on because I’m scared of the work or whatnot. I have a child, I get an hour a day with him because of work, leaving weekends. So while back with the RAV4 I could spunk 8 months of weekends and weekday evenings welding and shit, I don’t have that time now.  I’ll have at most a Saturday or a Sunday (to be decided/confirmed with the wife), and that’s meant to be on my Lada which has sat more or less untouched for 2 years because of the RAV4 and becoming a dad.

So what I am going to do is go over it again with my friend, go through the starting issue methodically. And I think if it runs, whoever takes it, that will be the most major issue resolved on it. I don’t know when that will be, as he needs to be free and I need to OK it with the wife. 

[brownnova]

22 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

I have a child, I get an hour a day with him because of work, leaving weekends. So while back with the RAV4 I could spunk 8 months of weekends and weekday evenings welding and shit, I don’t have that time now.  I’ll have at most a Saturday or a Sunday (to be decided/confirmed with the wife), and that’s meant to be on my Lada which has sat more or less untouched for 2 years because of the RAV4 and becoming a dad

Feel your pain there fella!

[BorniteIdentity]

You need the right car at the right time of life. I have been super fortunate in that Alf892 has (almost singlehandedly) kept my fleet rolling. At times when life was hard, I just tucked the heaps away and used the Toyota. When I felt brighter, I’d titivate and enjoy. 

You can have the right car and the right owner at the wrong time, and that can be painful. Main thing is you don’t beat yourself up. 

Good luck with it. 

[DodgeRover]

1 hour ago, Tetleysmooth said:

I don't think he'll actually sell it. it's only done 60 odd thou. it's in Ireland at the mo, but still wearing it's British plates.

If the guards get upset with him, it'll go sharpish assuming he's from the free state, the road tax on that plus import duty will be more than it's worth!

[yes oui si]

1 hour ago, brownnova said:

Feel your pain there fella!

Same. 

[grogee]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:39 PM, St.Jude said:

I have a child, I get an hour a day with him because of work, leaving weekends. 

It gets easier. Master Grogee is soon to be 9, he's pretty low maintenance now. Multiple games consoles help. This makes me a terrible parent of course, but it didn't* do me any harm. 

I do get tinker time, the lighter weekday evenings help. Do your bit domestically then the spannering time won't/can't be resented.

Grandparents are also useful in this respect. 

[St.Jude]

22 minutes ago, grogee said:

It gets easier. Master Grogee is soon to be 9, he's pretty low maintenance now. Multiple games consoles help. This makes me a terrible parent of course, but it didn't* do me any harm. 

I do get tinker time, the lighter weekday evenings help. Do your bit domestically then the spannering time won't/can't be resented.

Grandparents are also useful in this respect. 

It’s not so much that I have to look after him, it’s that I want to. I never stayed home in the first year as I was working and I was busy around picking up the bits my wife couldn’t do.

A few months ago he had to stay home from nursery and I took time off work to look after him, and I realised I’d been an idiot and should’ve tried to share the paternity. So I want to spend the time with him, but stuff needs to be done as well and I’m trying to get the balance right

[Bren]

20 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

It’s not so much that I have to look after him, it’s that I want to. I never stayed home in the first year as I was working and I was busy around picking up the bits my wife couldn’t do.

A few months ago he had to stay home from nursery and I took time off work to look after him, and I realised I’d been an idiot and should’ve tried to share the paternity. So I want to spend the time with him, but stuff needs to be done as well and I’m trying to get the balance right

My youngest has down syndrome.

Unfortunately he needs to change school in the summer again.

I can't help but think if i'd spent more time with him instead of being knackered all the time because of crap shifts this wouldn't have happened.

You are right for wanting to change things.

I hope somebody gets the car running.

[sutty2006]

I 100% agree with the family stuff. My son is 18 months soon and every ounce of spare time is on him or the dog, the Carlton wanted 2 weekends worth of work doing and it took me nearly 10 months to get it through mot. Some of my projects won’t be touched again for a few years at least. 

[yes oui si]

Don't beat yourself up guys, it takes time to find the right balance for your family, and each one is different. 

Jr_oui_si has been asking to go on a bus and train for a year and the planets only aligned yesterday to do it. Drove to the metrocentre, bus then metro to shields, ferry (which they didn't know about and nearly lost their shit over when it came across the water) then metro back into town for some toy shopping. They loved the entire day and while I felt bad that we couldn't do it sooner, they're that little bit older now and forming more concrete memories. 

They were born just before lockdown, and I got made redundant when covid hit so I was doing Sainsbo deliveries and daft shifts through some of their big milestones. I'll never get that time back with them, and yeah that does hurt... But I'm mostly wfh these days which means I get to check in with them on non-preschool days

[mercedade]

Another vote for battery being a good starting point, but appreciate that if you don't have easy access to the car, that can be a massive shag.

Other things that randomly killed my Mk1 827 at various points, leaving it cranking but not running with no warning:

• Igniter (sometimes called ignition module) - a little bolt-on part that sits on the n/s inner wing/suspension turret
• Rotor arm - they were frequently shite quality, and one even unscrewed itself from the dizzy post. Cool.
• it also somehow unwound and launched a spark plug into the underside of the bonnet, but I doubt that's your issue here

The fact that it's gone from 'bogs down at the low end' (from the first for-sale thread) to 'crank but no start' to 'nothing' still suggests to me battery bollox and/or ignition tits.

I was always pretty sceptical that the hole in the exhaust was responsible for it bogging down - apart from anything else, mine had a ridiculous 4" exhaust on it, so back pressure was virtually non-existent but it still ran like a fucking whippet - but it's impossible to say either way for definite.

Good luck, and gutted for you - especially the rust/missing wheel nuts etc.

[Bren]

A bit of methodical testing ?

My SD1 had a starter that just " clicked".

Only when I saw the throttle cable turning orange did I realise it was an earth problem.

I ran a temporary earth and the bastard started.

If the car has corrosion this will potentially cause lots of issues.

 

[RoadworkUK]

Apols if it's absolutely no use whatsoever, but my Mk1 820e had a very, very sensitive intertia fuel pump cut off switch. Quite frequently used to kill the engine at inopportune moments, such as at Frinton Gates railway crossing. Engine would turn over but obviously not restart until it was reset.

On the 820e, it was behind a little trim panel below the centre console. Just pull the knob out to reset. Combine the effect of the fuel cut off with a duff battery, and the symptoms reported sound similar. Again, apols if this is stating the bleedin' obvious.

[sierraman]

Sometimes I think you have to rationalise and have one project and stick to it, mentally as well it’s small steps and choosing one job at a time to do well. I’ve been there, my kids have grown up a bit so have some degree of independence. Difficult to see when they’re young but time flys and eventually you start to get time back to indulge in hobbies. 

Don’t give up and become one of these boring bastards you see wandering round retail parks driving a Zafira. 

[St.Jude]

An update: it’s still here. Surprise.

 

Slightly more of an update:

I’m here with it now, and I’ve stuck the battery from my Land Cruiser on to it.

Wont start. Checked every fuse, none blown. My mate isn’t here to go through ground points in the footwell, or for me to check if any power is getting as far as the fuse box. I’m taking the one relay with me to work to see if it’s fucked or if it’s working. 

Also checked the battery tray, it is rotten where it fixes to the car.

FYI - it’s the nut on the left hand side of that picture.

Got the boot open, spares are here:

Including what looks to be a distributor, and a set of wheel nuts. 

Pic of the sill I’m on about, it is flexing under finger pressure but I think a screwdriver would puncture it. I’m not going to do that.

Good tyre:

I have a wet cold arse on what is a lovey day, as the drivers seat is damp. The head lining also feels damp, so the sunroof is leaking.

What doesn’t help me, but helps you oh prospective scrap man buyer is that the ECU is located under the drivers seat, and isn’t giving any sort of warning lights. I’m yet to find out if there are meant to be lights on it at all.

 

[vaughant]

59 minutes ago, St.Jude said:

An update: it’s still here. Surprise.

 

Slightly more of an update:

I’m here with it now, and I’ve stuck the battery from my Land Cruiser on to it.

Wont start. Checked every fuse, none blown. My mate isn’t here to go through ground points in the footwell, or for me to check if any power is getting as far as the fuse box. I’m taking the one relay with me to work to see if it’s fucked or if it’s working. 

Also checked the battery tray, it is rotten where it fixes to the car.

FYI - it’s the nut on the left hand side of that picture.

Got the boot open, spares are here:

Including what looks to be a distributor, and a set of wheel nuts. 

Pic of the sill I’m on about, it is flexing under finger pressure but I think a screwdriver would puncture it. I’m not going to do that.

Good tyre:

I have a wet cold arse on what is a lovey day, as the drivers seat is damp. The head lining also feels damp, so the sunroof is leaking.

What doesn’t help me, but helps you oh prospective scrap man buyer is that the ECU is located under the drivers seat, and isn’t giving any sort of warning lights. I’m yet to find out if there are meant to be lights on it at all.

 

Get a good jump lead and connect the earth terminal to a decent rust free point on the body, that should bypass any nasty rusty bits.

If it still doesn't turn over then, can someone put up the starting and charging circuit page on the Haynes manual and I'll try and guide you through it.

To test a relay, find the coil (usually a box with two lines coming out of it) and look for some sort of resistance, not buzz tester, but ohms.

If that looks ok, check the sets of contacts on the relay, again there's usually a drawing on it showing n/o or n/c contacts, check there's high resistance through n/o and a good circuit (low resistance)through the n/c ones, gives you half a chance.

[St.Jude]

2 hours ago, vaughant said:

Get a good jump lead and connect the earth terminal to a decent rust free point on the body, that should bypass any nasty rusty bits.

If it still doesn't turn over then, can someone put up the starting and charging circuit page on the Haynes manual and I'll try and guide you through it.

To test a relay, find the coil (usually a box with two lines coming out of it) and look for some sort of resistance, not buzz tester, but ohms.

If that looks ok, check the sets of contacts on the relay, again there's usually a drawing on it showing n/o or n/c contacts, check there's high resistance through n/o and a good circuit (low resistance)through the n/c ones, gives you half a chance.

Yeah I didn’t have the leads with me today. Thought they were in the tool bag but didn’t realise until I was there that I didn’t have them.

I’ve got the Haynes BOL and Rover workshop folders. I’ll go through them again later or nearer the next time I’m able to go to the car.

[sierraman]

That sill doesn’t look bad, I’d probably just ignore it in the hope the tester misses it, then take it as it comes. 

[Honey Badger]

Is the fuel pump priming when you turn the key on? 

Later Hondas have a relay hidden next to the steering wheel that energises the fuel pump, they have a nasty habit of getting dry joints and stopping the car from working randomly.

[St.Jude]

1 hour ago, sierraman said:

That sill doesn’t look bad, I’d probably just ignore it in the hope the tester misses it, then take it as it comes. 

That’d be the hope. But if you can see if flex with your hand/foot I don’t know how it’d do in a bump.

38 minutes ago, Honey Badger said:

Is the fuel pump priming when you turn the key on? 

Later Hondas have a relay hidden next to the steering wheel that energises the fuel pump, they have a nasty habit of getting dry joints and stopping the car from working randomly.

No idea, I couldn’t hear anything other than a click.

There is a neutral switch inhibitor thing which I need to check as well, which is known to be an issue in other Honda autos is also an issue here. So I need to check that too.

[Honey Badger]

You normally hear a buzz as it brings the pressure up in the fuel system, if i think about it my D16 engine Rover 216 did the same.

I had to replace the main relay in My Accord Coupe with the J series V6, it was £60 from Honda.

 

[mercedade]

There's also the inertia switch (sp?) on the bulkhead firewall at the back of the engine bay - shuts off the fuel in the event of a bump. 

[St.Jude]

Thanks @Honey Badger and @mercedade. Don’t recall any buzzing so will look at it

[St.Jude]

This is a video of last week at the car, so you can see what it's like.

Having spoke to someone else about it, I've a nasty feeling there could be an issue with the ECU. The PGMFI light doesn't come off when it should do. That usually happens when the fuel system is primed. So either it's a fuel issue, or the ECU is dead. I'm inclined to think it's the ECU as it should have a light on it when you turn the key and I don't recall one being displayed.

Does anyone know if you can use a spark plug light tester in between the ignition coil and distributor cap? As i need to get one.

[Rust Collector]

1 minute ago, St.Jude said:

This is a video of last week at the car, so you can see what it's like.

Having spoke to someone else about it, I've a nasty feeling there could be an issue with the ECU. The PGMFI light doesn't come off when it should do. That usually happens when the fuel system is primed. So either it's a fuel issue, or the ECU is dead. I'm inclined to think it's the ECU as it should have a light on it when you turn the key and I don't recall one being displayed.

Is the ECU easily accessible? If you're able to it may be worth pulling it out and popping it open to look for damage. I've opened up similar aged Honda ones to solder bits on back when they were worthless, they were easy to get in to.

[St.Jude]

Just now, Rust Collector said:

Is the ECU easily accessible? If you're able to it may be worth pulling it out and popping it open to look for damage. I've opened up similar aged Honda ones to solder bits on back when they were worthless, they were easy to get in to.

It’s under the drivers seat, so I’d need to remove the seat to get to it.