The Range Rover Appreciation Thread

[Six-cylinder]

12 hours ago, MAF260 said:

I've had 3:

I swore myself off them after that, but keep looking at L405s from time to time.

The L405 is a maintenance nightmare unless it is newish and under warrantee.

Mine is under 50k miles but it still got to 7 years old and said open wide, yes my wallet!

[jonathan_dyane]

I have an unnatural desire for a TD6 L322 which hopefully I will have the sense to resist.

Just how hard is the ZF6 gearbox retrofit @83C ?

A P38 DSE would probably be less trouble and certainly less rusty I know...

[Six-cylinder]

I said in my Range Rover post before I owned one in 2002 I drove my friend's Steve's ones. He used to have several classics. I can tell you a manual 3 door non-power steering classic is hard work and the 4 speeds need overdrive, which one of his had. He also used to have a classic with a VM diesel engine and that was so under powered it was dangerous. I met him yesterday and he sent me some pictures and updated me that he now has another P38 this time a 2002 4.6. We both had  P38 4.6HSE at the same time, mine a 1997 his a 1998, his did 14 mpg in permanent sport mode and mine 16 mpg. 

[NorthernMonkey]

I’m on my 5th now. The first one was an F reg 3.5 classic which wallowed around corners like an inebriated rhinoceros and had a tendency to overheat but is still memorable in a good way.

That was followed by a couple of P38s from on here, a 2.5 diesel and a 4.0 V8 spares car.

Number 4 was a 3.6 TDV8 L322 bought on the spur of the moment from a bloke who sold me a pair of seats for my Defender and which was my daily for a good while until @The Moog killed it whilst chasing me back over Saddleworth moor from BCA Brighouse and a turbo gave up. I’ll never forget glancing in the rear view mirror of the i10 I’d just collected and seeing clouds of black smoke in the distance.

The current one is a 4.2 supercharged V8 bought on here a couple of weeks ago from @J-T and formerly belonging to @Wack. It’s the exact year and spec I’ve been looking out for over the past 12 months, as well as having my favourite Autobiography interior and without doubt the best colour. Yes, it’s got a few minor issues but they will be sorted out over the next few months as time permits. Having owned literally hundreds of cars, there are very few indeed that make me glance over my shoulder or look forward to driving but this is without doubt one of them…definitely a keeper!

[83C]

34 minutes ago, jonathan_dyane said:

I have an unnatural desire for a TD6 L322 which hopefully I will have the sense to resist.

Just how hard is the ZF6 gearbox retrofit @83C ?

A P38 DSE would probably be less trouble and certainly less rusty I know...

Don’t honestly know, it’s something that I need to find out about at some point. I wouldn’t fear the GM box though, if it shifts cleanly with no slurring or flaring between gears then budget for a fluid change, drop the pan and clean it out, make sure there’s no swarf in there and it should be fine. 

P38’s greatest strength is its corrosion resistance, I doubt there’s been a Land Rover before or since that is quite so well protected against corrosion. Mid-production L322s seem pretty good, but some of the rust I’ve seen on late ones is pretty shocking for the age and mileage - I wonder if some economising on either the steel or the protective coatings occurred between 2007-2012. 

I don’t know that a P38 would be less trouble overall, both the M51 2.5 and M57 3.0 diesels are hardy bits of kit and don’t really give trouble but obviously the extra 50+bhp of the M57 is more than welcome. If we’re talking petrol powered V8s then in my onion the 4.0 is the one to go for in P38, less powerful but also less likely to slip liners (not impossible though). Fact is however that both the M62 and AJV8 units in the L322 are far better units than the prehistoric Buick V8, loads more power and also more economical. 

The rest of the running gear is ok, P38 wheel bearings are supposed be a bit of an arse of a job though. Air suspension is much better understood these days and hopefully nobody is junking it anymore ‘because coils are less trouble.’ The fact is that a coil conversion ruins the ride quality, the whole point of the air setup is to make what is a heavy car ride nicely. 

Like most cars a good diagnostics system is vital, the Nanocom seems to be the recommended kit for P38 but my iCarsoft all makes unit seems fine for the L322 apart from really in-depth stuff like calibrating ride height sensors. 

L322 definitely wins out in terms of space, it’s a bigger car all around. I always found that I was a bit of a tight fit in terms of legroom and head height in a P38, but still comfortable for long journeys. However, I’m excessively tall and fat.

Electronics - if the P38 BECM shits itself it’s a ballache. The L322 electronics are largely BMW, but there’s a lot of it and they really need a good battery - biggest one that will fit is a 1000CCA unit. More electrics means more to fail and have fun chasing with a multimeter too. 

I don’t know that from a reliability/ownership prospect whether either P38 or L322 are significantly better or worse than one another, both can be fantastic places to pass the miles when they work well, and comfortable places to sit and wait for the AA. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, some time ago a friend (in fact the previous owner of my L322) had a late 4.0 P38 Westminster and it was probably peak P38 for me. He replaced it after a few years with a very late 4.6 Autobiography (and then the L322), frustratingly at the time I couldn’t afford to buy the Westminster.

Both have the capability to smack your wallet in the bollocks, just go in eyes open and buy on condition.

[jonathan_dyane]

My wife's E39 has the same GM gearbox and is now approaching 250000 miles. No idea if the ATF has ever been changed or work done on the box. I'm too frightened to risk an ATF change in case it kills it!

[83C]

3 hours ago, jonathan_dyane said:

My wife's E39 has the same GM gearbox and is now approaching 250000 miles. No idea if the ATF has ever been changed or work done on the box. I'm too frightened to risk an ATF change in case it kills it!

They don’t seem to suffer the same issues in the E39, I guess due to less weight and no 4WD system to account for. 

[Jerzy Woking]

Nearest I came to RR ownership was putting the wheels from a Sport model on my VW T5.

[MAF260]

14 hours ago, Six-cylinder said:

The L405 is a maintenance nightmare unless it is newish and under warrantee.

Mine is under 50k miles but it still got to 7 years old and said open wide, yes my wallet!

Thanks. This is exactly the sort of owner honesty I need to keep me away from another poor financial decision!

[dome]

Ah, my thread has arrived.

My first experience was in the early 2000s when I was selling a Nissan Silvia and was offered 2 Range Rover Classics as a swap. Naturally I said yes. One was a nice 87 or thereabouts 3.5 auto in burgundy, the other was a 1990 3.9 Manual in Ardennes(?) Green. 

I loved them both. The 3.5 was a bit too tidy for me so ended up getting sold. I remember it running out of fuel on the test drive but a purchase was agreed with me to deliver it to the new owner in Edinburgh. I put a gallon out of a can into it to get me to the fuel station and it ran out about 7 miles later 🤣

The 3.9 was far rougher but felt genuinely quick compared to the Auto so I smoked around in it for a while with a view to taking up offroading. It was pretty rusty underneath so I ended up swapping it for an ex traffic Discovery V8 with 299k miles on the clock. This got me into offroading for a fraction of the cost of a Defender yet with 80% of the ability-only the extra length let it down occasionally.

Fast forward a few years and the bug bit me again so I bought another Classic, another 1990 3.9 but this time an auto. More off roading was done and it always amused me being able to do crazy stuff in them whilst in absolute comfort compared to the Defender boys cramped into their little tonka toys😃

 

@Fraz pictured here looking stylish with it🤣

It's safe to say the big 4x4 bug had bit. As an aside the reason I love Jeep Grand Cherokees is that they feel a lot like a slightly more modern Classic. I'm on my second one of them, but that's another thread...

Come lockdown and with not doing so many miles the itch was starting again. I'd sniffed around P38s for a while but the L322 seemed a much better car for similar money. It's safe to say I got lucky, the early 4.4 BMW V8 car I bought had been mildly barried by the guy I bought it from but was a fundamentally sound car. It had a few issues but none more than you'd expect from a 20 year old car. Most of my problems were related to the BMW bits!

 

The L322 is peak Rangey IMO. Unbelievably smooth and special to drive, getting into one after a long day is like being home already. Get a good one and look after it and you won't regret it. 

[leakingstrut]

On 27/12/2024 at 09:44, captain_cal said:

My parents had a harvest gold T plate just like this. Made a lovely sound, absolutely drank fuel. It got swapped for a grim indenor powered Sierra. 

I worked at a Land Rover experience center for a while - they had post facelift SDV8 L405’s when I started. Looking at the amount of parts sharing with the cheaper models I wondered what you were getting for your money. 

But despite that they do feel special in ways that are hard to put a finger on. The heft, low NVH and driving position just feel perfect. I reckon they are the worst handling of the range - but that isn’t the point of them and being slightly wallowy is part of the charm. 

All the other larger cars had had the SDV6, I wondered what the point of the diesel V8 was - it didn’t feel special or much more powerful. Until we got SDV6 FFRR’s in the lead up to the L450 launch. While V6 felt powerful and premium in the Disco/Sport/Velar it was a bit underwhelming in the FFRR. This wasn’t helped by not having an active locking rear diff - on hard acceleration in corners or pulling out of junctions the diff makes a noticeable difference. The open diff cars feel a bit sloppier in comparison. 

Off road you needed to give it a bit more throttle to get the traction control to sort it out, where ones with the locking diff would pull away easily. 

I didn’t have as much time with the L450 before I left, it’s nice but I do prefer the sea of buttons / rotary shifter the L405 had, I’m not a big fan of the new gear shifter and most of the controls being on the screen. And the steering wheel buttons felt a bit cheap. The D350 six cylinder felt better than the SDV6 though. 

[captain_cal]

On 02/01/2025 at 12:09, leakingstrut said:

It got swapped for a grim indenor powered Sierra

Unlucky, this one got replaced by the below. I'm counting it for inclusion in this thread as it is essentially a two-door Range Rover stuffed underneath a Series body - from the factory, no less!

Don't think it had the standard restricted lump as it used to cruise at 80 in overdrive fourth! Rare old piece, could never find definite build numbers but reckon it was less than 30. This one was factory reg and has a cutout in the bed for a crane, so recovery truck of some sort - probably used in Lode Lane as no cunt would buy one in such a dreadful colour!

[Westbay]

Watched a fair few films over the festive break, and , why do the baddies all drive black Range Rovers ? 

[warninglight]

11 hours ago, captain_cal said:

probably used in Lode Lane as no cunt would buy one in such a dreadful colour!

 

A java green stage one HCPU is for winners. Love it!

[Boycie]

17 minutes ago, Westbay said:

Watched a fair few films over the festive break, and , why do the baddies all drive black Range Rovers ? 

Depends , if your watching any Essex boy or any of the Rise of the footsoldier films then there's a good chance of seeing a shot up Rangie 

[captain_cal]

14 minutes ago, warninglight said:

A java green stage one HCPU is for winners. Love it!

We think it's the only one they ever painted this colour. After a brief (13 years) sojourn in Holland, where it ended up languishing in a field with no engine, my dad finally got it back in 2022 and it is currently nearing the end of a rebuild 🙂

PS how do I get my photos to upload with non-dogshit compression?

[Pete-M]

On 26/12/2024 at 23:37, 83C said:

 

Anyone else similarly afflicted with these fine machines?

 

Yup. I've had many Range Rovers. All petrol, obvs. 

First was a D plate Vogue 3.5i back in 1995ish. To this day it's the only one I've experienced a failure to proceed in. 

Next was a black G plate 3.9 Vogue SE on gas. Ran that for about 15k miles. 

Then a H plate LHD 3.9i Vogue manual. I exported that to Greece. It dragged a very heavy trailer (approx 3.4999999t laden) all the way. 

Then was a gorgeous 92 Vogue SE in black with a tan leather interior. This had a ludicrously good LPG system that was worth double the cost of the Rangie. Rust had its way with this one, the next owner spent a year moaning about welding it up.. which was amusing as I told him it needed welding and offered him a rust free 89 3.5 with a tired engine for parts when he bought it. He didn't like that one as it was green. 

Then there was the Wood & Pickett / Janspeed turbo classic.. that was solid and had one hell of an engine in it, but it blew gearboxes for fun. 4HP22 box can't take more than about 280 lb ft. The turbo V8 did considerably more than that if you got ambitious with boost... 

Also had a few P38a. All 4.6. First was high miles but mega spec and history. Nice car. I lent that to a pal who told me he needed to collect a small boat from dahhhn sahhhhf.  Rangie did it but it killed the engine as it burnt hideous amounts of oil afterwards. It was only later he admitted the 'small boat' was 28 ft long, had dwarved the Rangie by about 6:1 and weighed considerably more than should be dragged by a Rangie. He did make up for it as he bought the Rangie off me. "Bend it, mend it".

Last one I had was another 4.6 P38. Bought that because it was cheap, guy who owned it only had one parking space, had advertised the Rangie for a few weeks at £3995 with no takers. Eventually he dropped the price to £500 *must go today* and I hit BIN. Sold that for £1500 a couple of months later.  It was totally reliable, but it felt like that wasn't going to last.. you know when you just get the Heebies in some cars?

I keep looking at L322s. I think I've missed that bus though as they've been through the depreciation curve and are going up in value for nice ones. Too many rusty jobs in my budget to think about one of those at the moment. 

They are the best car in the world though. 

 

[MAF260]

On 30/12/2024 at 09:31, MAF260 said:

I've had 3:

A dalliance with a year old 4.2 LSE around 1994 I think. It was very thirsty and I needed the funds to move house.

A P38 4.6 Vogue which was absolutely fantastic. Owned for 3 or 4 years and driven everywhere. It suffered the typical EAS compressor failure, but I can't remember any other significant issues. Sold when I bought my ex-wife a Shogun so we didn't need two big 4WD cars on the drive. Bought a Maserati 3200GT to replace it which emptied my wallet at a much faster rate, but started a long love affair with Maseratis.

A L322 4.4TDV8 Vogue. Ex-JLR management car, so was laden with every conceivable extra. A wonderful car and the most accomplished of the 3, but finally left the fleet after 3 years due to ongoing issues with the DPF. The latter years of ownership always included replacing some suspension components and sorting various oil leaks. It liked to eat front brakes (not expensive with ECP discount codes) and I had to have full geo adjustments each year to maintain tyre wear as it was very sensitive even though it was only ever used on the road (like most!). I swore myself off them after that, but keep looking at L405s from time to time.

My experience - there's nothing like them to drive, a real sense of occasion every time.

Digging through a load of old pics I've found one of each:

I think I've been put off any ideas of a L405 for a bit, but who knows what may happen in future if I have a moment of weakness/madness!

[Leyland Worldmaster]

The one I drove was a Vogue and it had the same interior and paint. It was a 3.0 Diesel BMW engine though: