The grumpy thread

[chaseracer]

  On 05/04/2025 at 23:02, Pieman said:

That's exactly the sort of thing that happens every single time I try to meet up with anyone, be it friends, family members, or anyone else.  It's always me making the effort, and it's always them who get my hopes up and then conveniently have an excuse ready.

I wish people would just be honest with me and admit they don't want to ever be in my presence.  Because no one does.

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Apart from us.  We like you.  The send-off for @Inspector Morose was a damn fine day out, and you were a very important part of that.  Also, you're the best motor racing commentator I know!

Don't underestimate yourself - there are plenty will do that for you, and they're wrong.

[chaseracer]

  On 07/04/2025 at 07:05, New POD said:

The company I work for has a sister company that's much bigger in Eindhoven.

Most people get an early flight on Easyjet to Amsterdam, and a train (no need to prebook and the airport has its own station) to Eindhoven. Takes about 1.5 hours on the train. 

Some even come back the same day.   

When I looked, flying direct to Eindhoven wasn't practical, due to lack of flights from.the Northwest.  

The only time I went was for a 3 day training course, so went the day before.  Lovely town. 

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Did you have time to visit the DAF museum?  Well worth it.

[hairnet]

  On 07/04/2025 at 07:05, New POD said:

The company I work for has a sister company that's much bigger in Eindhoven.

Most people get an early flight on Easyjet to Amsterdam, and a train (no need to prebook and the airport has its own station) to Eindhoven. Takes about 1.5 hours on the train. 

Some even come back the same day.   

When I looked, flying direct to Eindhoven wasn't practical, due to lack of flights from.the Northwest.  

The only time I went was for a 3 day training course, so went the day before.  Lovely town. 

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never been eind on foot - either car or bike

its a shame theres not more flights from here (1 a day) and no weekend ones WTF

which is why ive usually been on or in something cos schiphol does my head in

apart from not able to get ticket here eind was picked cos not difficult to get about - also daf but thatll be 6th time so no

[IronStar]

Bravo. Another day. Another fuck you.

It passed the technical inspection with advisory that brakes are still not 100% right. That’s it then? Well, no.

It’s been more than two months since the registration lapsed, so it needs new plates (I’m yet to understand why do you need new plates if rego expires over 2 months, but you don’t need to change it otherwise). The inspection station is not in Belgrade county, so they can’t take care of that, so I need to drive 60 kilometers there and 60 back to pick up 5 pieces of paper. Okay, I’ll drive.

I get there, I take the paperwork, drive back to Belgrade, wait in a queue just to be told - nope, sorry m8, you need another paper.

This car was, on paper, owned by my late aunt. I bought it off my cousin who inherited it. I have the inheritance paperwork. But, nope, that’s not enough, he needs to go to the tax authority, in person, and ask for a paper that confirms he owes no tax on the inheritance of the car (which he doesn’t as her son), give me the paper that says 0RSD owed, so I can pass it to the police station to get the new plates issued.

Oh, because that’s not enough, insurance policy on the car needs to be cancelled. Yes, you guessed it, it’s not electronic, and I need to drive another 120km to take it back so they can void it in person.

They can check if I owe the tax before issuing me the plates and registration sticker, but that very same fucking system can’t confirm if there’s outstanding tax before my ownership.

Bonus question - why is there even a tax on a sale of a used car? Did you not levy the tax when it was first sold/imported, why are you taxing every subsequent sale? 

Fuck Serbian bureaucracy, fuck the paperwork, fuck everything. I am so fed up with this country and all the insanity that comes with it. This is literally insane. 

[chaseracer]

  On 07/04/2025 at 20:13, IronStar said:

Bravo. Another day. Another fuck you.

It passed the technical inspection with advisory that brakes are still not 100% right. That’s it then? Well, no.

It’s been more than two months since the registration lapsed, so it needs new plates (I’m yet to understand why do you need new plates if rego expires over 2 months, but you don’t need to change it otherwise). The inspection station is not in Belgrade county, so they can’t take care of that, so I need to drive 60 kilometers there and 60 back to pick up 5 pieces of paper. Okay, I’ll drive.

I get there, I take the paperwork, drive back to Belgrade, wait in a queue just to be told - nope, sorry m8, you need another paper.

This car was, on paper, owned by my late aunt. I bought it off my cousin who inherited it. I have the inheritance paperwork. But, nope, that’s not enough, he needs to go to the tax authority, in person, and ask for a paper that confirms he owes no tax on the inheritance of the car (which he doesn’t as her son), give me the paper that says 0RSD owed, so I can pass it to the police station to get the new plates issued.

Oh, because that’s not enough, insurance policy on the car needs to be cancelled. Yes, you guessed it, it’s not electronic, and I need to drive another 120km to take it back so they can void it in person.

They can check if I owe the tax before issuing me the plates and registration sticker, but that very same fucking system can’t confirm if there’s outstanding tax before my ownership.

Bonus question - why is there even a tax on a sale of a used car? Did you not levy the tax when it was first sold/imported, why are you taxing every subsequent sale? 

Fuck Serbian bureaucracy, fuck the paperwork, fuck everything. I am so fed up with this country and all the insanity that comes with it. This is literally insane. 

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And we think the DVLA is shit...

[IronStar]

  On 07/04/2025 at 21:14, chaseracer said:

And we think the DVLA is shit...

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I was comparing this shitshow to what I’ve been reading for years  and his direct experience with DVLA talking to my brother who was with me today as driver #2. For reference, he lives in the UK for over 30 years now. DVLA wins for simplicity and just making sense, any day of the week.

Online MOT/tax/insurance check by running the plates is something that won’t happen here for another 250 years.

[New POD]

  On 07/04/2025 at 17:32, chaseracer said:

Did you have time to visit the DAF museum?  Well worth it.

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No, I went on the factory tour.  I was more interested in how they make trucks today.  

We get enough of Daf's history thrown as us via the PACCAR intranet. Almost like Leyland Trucks never existed before 1998. 

There were 4 people who retired last week, one of whom was there when it was still part of the BLMC empire. 

[New POD]

  On 07/04/2025 at 20:13, IronStar said:

 

Bonus question - why is there even a tax on a sale of a used car? Did you not levy the tax when it was first sold/imported, why are you taxing every subsequent sale? 

Fuck Serbian bureaucracy, fuck the paperwork, fuck everything. I am so fed up with this country and all the insanity that comes with it. This is literally insane. 

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Well......car are expensive. Like houses. Which in the UK have stamp duty on every sale and if you sell a second home, capital gains tax....and if it's part of an inheritance, inheritance tax. 

That Serbian red tape?   Do the prices offset the issue a little. 

 

[IronStar]

  On 08/04/2025 at 04:41, New POD said:

Well......car are expensive. Like houses. Which in the UK have stamp duty on every sale and if you sell a second home, capital gains tax....and if it's part of an inheritance, inheritance tax. 

That Serbian red tape?   Do the prices offset the issue a little. 

 

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Tax is supposed to be 2.5% of the car’s value. This, is of course- not true. I paid 70€ in tax for the car I paid 300€. The formula is

  Reveal hidden contents

Value = (320 * engine displacement + 6400 * engine power) * vehicle age coefficient.

You can find the vehicle age coefficient in the following table:
    •    100% – for vehicles up to and including one year old
    •    90% – for vehicles over two years old
    •    80% – for vehicles over three years old
    •    70% – for vehicles over four years old
    •    60% – for vehicles over five years old
    •    50% – for vehicles over six years old
    •    45% – for vehicles over seven years old
    •    40% – for vehicles over eight years old
    •    35% – for vehicles over nine years old
    •    30% – for vehicles over ten years old or more

You need to notarize the sale, which is some 20€. New plates and registration certificate are around 40€. You need the registration certificate every time there’s an owner or address change, and new plates if registration has expired more than two months ago or the car is changing county of registration.  Yearly technical inspection is another 40€. Road tax is calculated based on the cubic capacity and age of the car, and ranges from not much for anything 2000cc or under to daylight robbery of over 3000€ for relatively recent and over 3000cc. This doesn’t mean motorways are free, nor is there a vignette - it’s pay-per-use, and it’s not really cheap. Fuel duty, and VAT  on top of it, as the tax is levied as 20% of the base of fuel + fuel duty is over half the price of fuel. Insurance is reasonably cheap, but it’s 3rd party only. Fully comp is not really available if your car is over 7 years old. 
 

TL;DR: Not really, except 3rd party only insurance is not eye-wateringly expensive. But that’s not part of the government red tape anyway

Edited April 8 by IronStar
What the hell text editor?

[IronStar]

  On 07/04/2025 at 20:13, IronStar said:

Bravo. Another day. Another fuck you.

It passed the technical inspection with advisory that brakes are still not 100% right. That’s it then? Well, no.

It’s been more than two months since the registration lapsed, so it needs new plates (I’m yet to understand why do you need new plates if rego expires over 2 months, but you don’t need to change it otherwise). The inspection station is not in Belgrade county, so they can’t take care of that, so I need to drive 60 kilometers there and 60 back to pick up 5 pieces of paper. Okay, I’ll drive.

I get there, I take the paperwork, drive back to Belgrade, wait in a queue just to be told - nope, sorry m8, you need another paper.

This car was, on paper, owned by my late aunt. I bought it off my cousin who inherited it. I have the inheritance paperwork. But, nope, that’s not enough, he needs to go to the tax authority, in person, and ask for a paper that confirms he owes no tax on the inheritance of the car (which he doesn’t as her son), give me the paper that says 0RSD owed, so I can pass it to the police station to get the new plates issued.

Oh, because that’s not enough, insurance policy on the car needs to be cancelled. Yes, you guessed it, it’s not electronic, and I need to drive another 120km to take it back so they can void it in person.

They can check if I owe the tax before issuing me the plates and registration sticker, but that very same fucking system can’t confirm if there’s outstanding tax before my ownership.

Bonus question - why is there even a tax on a sale of a used car? Did you not levy the tax when it was first sold/imported, why are you taxing every subsequent sale? 

Fuck Serbian bureaucracy, fuck the paperwork, fuck everything. I am so fed up with this country and all the insanity that comes with it. This is literally insane. 

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It will take a week. For them to run a query on the database, and print a piece of paper. A fucking week. For a 10 second job.

This is some sick joke. 

[wuvvum]

Well fuck.  Fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck. 

[junkyarddog]

^^^How did you manage that?

[LightBulbFun]

  On 08/04/2025 at 12:55, wuvvum said:

Well fuck.  Fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck. 

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[LightBulbFun]

  On 08/04/2025 at 12:55, wuvvum said:

Well fuck.  Fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck. 

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but seriously, thats shit! I hope your alright physically at least!

[BorniteIdentity]

  On 08/04/2025 at 12:55, wuvvum said:

Well fuck.  Fuck fuck fuck fucking fuck. 

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I'm sorry that, soon enough, you will be on a first-name basis with your insurance company handler.

As long as you're good, that's really all that matters.  Good luck mate.

[wuvvum]

I'm fine physically.  Leaf still drives although obviously it's a bit fucked cosmetically.  Not sure if it's worth repairing or not, there's no damage beyond the outer panels that I can see but the bonnet is not sitting flush on the nearside so obviously something's happened there.

Mentally is a different issue.  I am so fucking pissed off with myself.  26 years without an at fault accident, all gone in a flash.  Also the chances of my insurance policy being renewed now I've had two accidents in a year are much diminished, and if they do renew I imagine the premium will go through the roof.  So my carefree days of pissing around with cars are probably over.

[comfortablynumb]

@wuvvum, I can appreciate you're pissed off, we all would be, but you're ok, as presumably is everyone else.

Try not to let it get you down, easier said than done I know.

 

[myglaren]

  On 08/04/2025 at 13:17, wuvvum said:

I'm fine physically.  Leaf still drives although obviously it's a bit fucked cosmetically.  Not sure if it's worth repairing or not, there's no damage beyond the outer panels that I can see but the bonnet is not sitting flush on the nearside so obviously something's happened there.

Mentally is a different issue.  I am so fucking pissed off with myself.  26 years without an at fault accident, all gone in a flash.  Also the chances of my insurance policy being renewed now I've had two accidents in a year are much diminished, and if they do renew I imagine the premium will go through the roof.  So my carefree days of pissing around with cars are probably over.

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You may be able to mitigate that by having a family member insure the car with you as a named driver.

[paulplom]

I wrote my van off a few years back by ramming a car up the arse also writing that off and my insurance never really went up. Not sure how it all works. Fingers crossed for you.

[wuvvum]

  On 08/04/2025 at 13:40, myglaren said:

You may be able to mitigate that by having a family member insure the car with you as a named driver.

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My family members who live in the UK are all on the other side of the country, and they're all over 70 too so probably wouldn't be much help on the premium side.

[comfortablynumb]

  On 08/04/2025 at 13:40, myglaren said:

You may be able to mitigate that by having a family member insure the car with you as a named driver.

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Not sure you can get away with that now, the main driver is supposed to be the main policy holder iirc.

I do know my mum's neighbours had serious problems with an accident a few years ago, where their son was driving their car, as a named driver, was involved in a non-fault accident, and despite him having his own car, insured in his name, the insurers tried to claim the parents car was actually his.

Nearly ended in court, they backed down at the last moment. This could be insurers just being arses tho

[BorniteIdentity]

  On 08/04/2025 at 16:26, comfortablynumb said:

Not sure you can get away with that now, the main driver is supposed to be the main policy holder iirc.

I do know my mum's neighbours had serious problems with an accident a few years ago, where their son was driving their car, as a named driver, was involved in a non-fault accident, and despite him having his own car, insured in his name, the insurers tried to claim the parents car was actually his.

Nearly ended in court, they backed down at the last moment. This could be insurers just being arses tho

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I think most people on here will know this as 'Fronting'.  Those involved in insurance fronting may face criminal charges under the Fraud Act 2006 or The Insurance Act 2015, as it constitutes fraud by misrepresentation or false information.  

It is a seriously, seriously bad idea.  We all know how much insurance companies want to avoid coughing up - and this is the sort of thing they delight in.

[loserone]

Sorry to hear of the hungry caterpillar incident.  

 

You may find the premium increases a fair bit but you will get through it again.  I've not been claim free for long

[wuvvum]

  On 08/04/2025 at 16:34, BorniteIdentity said:

I think most people on here will know this as 'Fronting'.  Those involved in insurance fronting may face criminal charges under the Fraud Act 2006 or The Insurance Act 2015, as it constitutes fraud by misrepresentation or false information.  

It is a seriously, seriously bad idea.  We all know how much insurance companies want to avoid coughing up - and this is the sort of thing they delight in.

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I think it's OK if you declare yourself as the main driver but you add a relative on as an additional named driver - in some circumstances that can help lower the premium, although usually for very young drivers.  The problem comes when you're insured as an additional driver but you're actually the main driver of the vehicle.

[BorniteIdentity]

  On 08/04/2025 at 16:50, wuvvum said:

I think it's OK if you declare yourself as the main driver but you add a relative on as an additional named driver - in some circumstances that can help lower the premium, although usually for very young drivers.  The problem comes when you're insured as an additional driver but you're actually the main driver of the vehicle.

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Apologies if I got the wrong end of the wrong stick - I thought the poster was suggesting you be a named driver on your mother's car etc.

But yes - that stuff is fine.  My ex-wife is still insured on my vehicles as it brings it down.  We're still legally married so nothing fraudulent; she's just not driven one in years!

 

[wuvvum]

  On 08/04/2025 at 16:48, loserone said:

Sorry to hear of the hungry caterpillar incident.  

 

You may find the premium increases a fair bit but you will get through it again.  I've not been claim free for long

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I hope so, but fleet policies like mine are getting harder to come by, and a number of people with similar policies have had insurers refuse to renew.  Worst comes to the worst, a few of the fleet could probably be put on a multi-car classic policy (I might even be able to squeeze the Rover 75 on there), then I'd just need to have one modern under a separate policy for daily use.

[Remspoor]

  On 07/04/2025 at 20:13, IronStar said:

Bravo. Another day. Another fuck you.

It passed the technical inspection with advisory that brakes are still not 100% right. That’s it then? Well, no.

It’s been more than two months since the registration lapsed, so it needs new plates (I’m yet to understand why do you need new plates if rego expires over 2 months, but you don’t need to change it otherwise). The inspection station is not in Belgrade county, so they can’t take care of that, so I need to drive 60 kilometers there and 60 back to pick up 5 pieces of paper. Okay, I’ll drive.

I get there, I take the paperwork, drive back to Belgrade, wait in a queue just to be told - nope, sorry m8, you need another paper.

This car was, on paper, owned by my late aunt. I bought it off my cousin who inherited it. I have the inheritance paperwork. But, nope, that’s not enough, he needs to go to the tax authority, in person, and ask for a paper that confirms he owes no tax on the inheritance of the car (which he doesn’t as her son), give me the paper that says 0RSD owed, so I can pass it to the police station to get the new plates issued.

Oh, because that’s not enough, insurance policy on the car needs to be cancelled. Yes, you guessed it, it’s not electronic, and I need to drive another 120km to take it back so they can void it in person.

They can check if I owe the tax before issuing me the plates and registration sticker, but that very same fucking system can’t confirm if there’s outstanding tax before my ownership.

Bonus question - why is there even a tax on a sale of a used car? Did you not levy the tax when it was first sold/imported, why are you taxing every subsequent sale? 

Fuck Serbian bureaucracy, fuck the paperwork, fuck everything. I am so fed up with this country and all the insanity that comes with it. This is literally insane. 

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Oh my. and I thought Spain was the King in bureaucracy.

[myglaren]

  On 08/04/2025 at 16:26, comfortablynumb said:

Not sure you can get away with that now, the main driver is supposed to be the main policy holder iirc.

I do know my mum's neighbours had serious problems with an accident a few years ago, where their son was driving their car, as a named driver, was involved in a non-fault accident, and despite him having his own car, insured in his name, the insurers tried to claim the parents car was actually his.

Nearly ended in court, they backed down at the last moment. This could be insurers just being arses tho

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I was intending insuring my coming Mazda 6 in my son's name as he is now the main driver, uses it daily for work, taking his girlfriend to and from work, buggering off to Scotland quite often.  I get to use it once a fortnight usually.  It lives at his house too.

This was as due to my age my insurance is increasing rapidly and hoped to save a few quid.

 

Insurance said nothing when the Civic was wiped out just over a year ago.  He was driving home from work, Volvo slid into him in the snow.  All on dashcam.

[barefoot]

Is ncb relevant on a trade policy though? It's not on a classic one. I bumped my camper recently and the renewal said, 'at fault, ncd affected, amount of ncd - nil'.

[comfortablynumb]

Think you're ok with that @myglaren, but I've had situations like that where I've had to register the car to the main driver too, the insurance wasn't happy with it being registered to someone else.

Case in.point- one of my range rover classics is on long-term loan to one of my sons, and his insurers insisted he was the registered keeper, although he doesn't own it and never will ( despite his best efforts!)

 

Also when my son in law needed a stopgap car in a hurry, after his Freelander caught light, his boss offered to loan him a ford fusion.

We actually ended up buying it, because his insurers wouldn't cover it either

 

Not sure what difference it makes? After all the v5 states in big letters that it's not proof of ownership. Maybe @JJ0063 could enlighten me in his professional capacity?

Edited April 8 by comfortablynumb