The grumpy thread

[sierraman]

  On 28/04/2022 at 09:00, junkyarddog said:

Here in Ireland the first roadworthyness test is done at four years old,then every two years until the car is ten years old.Then it's tested every year.

If a car is lucky enough to survive to thirty years old then the test becomes every two years again,when the car reaches its fortieth it's exempt from test.

 

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I don’t know about Ireland but in the U.K. there’s loads of cars knocking about 2-3 years old on bald tyres. There’s no excuse in my opinion, if you haven’t got the money to run the car legally then you need taking off the road.

[5speedracer]

  On 28/04/2022 at 06:54, Dyslexic Viking said:

What we have Similar to MOT and TUV in Norway are 2 years also. And works just fine and read a while ago that very few of the accidents here are caused by faults on cars. Having to take the car to MOT every year would be very annoying.

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I suspect the average Norwegian or German might have a different perception of car maintenance than the average Brit though!

[Rust Collector]

They have bi-annual tests in Slovakia as well, and to be fair even in the rural places in the East that I've stayed you don't tend to see motors that are properly hanging in daily use anymore, it's mostly a sea of moderns out there. I'm not sure where you could gather data from, but it would be interesting to see figures on collisions due to mechanical failure in the countries that do have bi-annual test versus annual test, and also would be interesting to see the average mileage covered annually in those countries, plus the average age of car. Maybe even data for inspection failure rates too if you're going all out. You'd hope that some kind of exercise along those lines is guiding the govt decision...

I don't think there's a perfect solution really, as pointed out above it's perfectly achievable to make a new car un-roadworthy within the 3 year initial grace period so our system already has gaps. Testing standards are another point to consider - I've previously imported cars from Japan that were being sold having failed the test there, which then passed an MOT here once landed after having a fog lamp chucked on. Perhaps the 2 year tests are more stringent than the annual tests?

From a purely selfish point of view I wouldn't mind a 2 year test and keep the extra multiples of £50 a year in the beer fund, but it's unusual for me to do more than 1500 miles a year in any one car bar the Insight so a system that suits me probably isn't going to be reflective of the average car user...

[BorniteIdentity]

How many nuns and kittens died due to the extended MOT grace period during COVID? 

My feeling is those who look after their cars will continue to do so, and those who don’t won’t. I know plenty of folk who will skim around on balder tyres, but more who will continue to correctly maintain. More of interest - to me - is whether the great unwashed will now adopt a bi-annual service scheme too, as lots do a service and test at the same time. 

[sierraman]

The point is that we should be making life more difficult for people who won’t reach the minimum standards, the way of enforcing that is ensuring an annual check.

[AnnoyingPentium]

  On 28/04/2022 at 10:41, sierraman said:

The point is that we should be making life more difficult for people who won’t reach the minimum standards, the way of enforcing that is ensuring an annual check.

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<two pence>

I agree. The amount of absolutely hinging cars gives me the fear. Certainly no 'nuns or kittens' were injured, but how long does it have to be before someone is because some mechanical sadist fuckwit is driving around in some shed that's bordering on lethal. As yon thread about the police complaint highlighted, it's less likely for the police to tend to these things as it once was.

If you're choosing not to keep a car meeting the bare minimum of roadworthiness then don't participate. Simples.

</two pence>

[sierraman]

Why make life easier for people that can’t be arsed to comply? I’ve no doubt people will say ‘I can’t afford if it fails the test’. That ultimately is nobodies problem but theirs. 

[Rust Collector]

Just to be devil's advocate;

If it's just about making life harder for those who don't maintain their cars, why not a 6 month test? It would only be an extra £50 a year per car for those who look after their motors, and the knackered motors would potentially be removed from the roads several months earlier than under the current system.

Completely agree that not keeping your vehicle roadworthy is not acceptable if you are going to use it on the road, but the timescales and what contemplates roadworthy appears to be somewhat arbitrary depending on each individual country so how do you know what's the best fit without looking at solid data in order to determine what actually supports a level of safety which we have determined is acceptable for our own society? If the data suggests that our car usage matches those of countries with 2 year tests and they have no worse failure/accident rates than us then you'd expect it would be ok to move the test date out without any real consequence in safety assuming usage doesn't alter. If our usage is greater and we already have higher failure or accident rates then you'd expect us to keep annual tests or maybe even consider shorter test periods if it's apparent that there must be a large number of cars out there that aren't roadworthy and are a contributor to road deaths or injuries.

TBH I think they should keep it to an annual test just because that's what we're used to and it presumably works (if it ain't broke etc. etc.), but if the government move it having done due diligence (don't laugh!) then it wouldn't make me more worried to be out on the road with a 2 year test system.

[Rocket88]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:15, Rust Collector said:

Just to be devil's advocate;

If it's just about making life harder for those who don't maintain their cars, why not a 6 month test? It would only be an extra £50 a year per car for those who look after their motors, and the knackered motors would potentially be removed from the roads several months earlier than under the current system.

Completely agree that not keeping your vehicle roadworthy is not acceptable if you are going to use it on the road, but the timescales and what contemplates roadworthy appears to be somewhat arbitrary depending on each individual country so how do you know what's the best fit without looking at solid data in order to determine what actually supports a level of safety which we have determined is acceptable for our own society? If the data suggests that our car usage matches those of countries with 2 year tests and they have no worse failure/accident rates than us then you'd expect it would be ok to move the test date out without any real consequence in safety assuming usage doesn't alter. If our usage is greater and we already have higher failure or accident rates then you'd expect us to keep annual tests or maybe even consider shorter test periods if it's apparent that there must be a large number of cars out there that aren't roadworthy and are a contributor to road deaths or injuries.

TBH I think they should keep it to an annual test just because that's what we're used to and it presumably works (if it ain't broke etc. etc.), but if the government move it having done due diligence (don't laugh!) then it wouldn't make me more worried to be out on the road with a 2 year test system.

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Don’t think the infrastructure could cope with a test every 6 months 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

Something something, clutch, something something, other half, something something, on their way to work, something something, recovery by AA, something something, hopefully by Monday.

Great morning.

[chris667]

I have to say I don't get the historic MOT exemption idea.

It places too much risk on the owner of the car. And people don't maintain things.

My mate Dan used to drive a Beetle with a great big hole in the floorpan. We'd go on 100 mile outings, and you could see the M40 rushing underneath your feet. A hole nearly big enough to put your foot into.

I bet there's loads of cars like that, or perhaps worse cars "repaired" with a sheet of steel and a gob of filler.

Rules are good for stuff like this. They give vehicle owners a standard that they must adhere to in order to satisfy the law. At the moment, the onus is on them to decide what's legal.

[horriblemercedes]

  On 28/04/2022 at 10:25, BorniteIdentity said:

How many nuns and kittens died due to the extended MOT grace period during COVID? 

My feeling is those who look after their cars will continue to do so, and those who don’t won’t. I know plenty of folk who will skim around on balder tyres, but more who will continue to correctly maintain. More of interest - to me - is whether the great unwashed will now adopt a bi-annual service scheme too, as lots do a service and test at the same time. 

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This, pretty much. The bare minimum drivers will still be bare minimum while those who like cars and driving will continue to drive well-maintained and/or safe cars. I don't think that much would really change

[sierraman]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:23, chris667 said:

I have to say I don't get the historic MOT exemption idea.

It places too much risk on the owner of the car. And people don't maintain things.

My mate Dan used to drive a Beetle with a great big hole in the floorpan. We'd go on 100 mile outings, and you could see the M40 rushing underneath your feet. A hole nearly big enough to put your foot into.

I bet there's loads of cars like that, or perhaps worse cars "repaired" with a sheet of steel and a gob of filler.

Rules are good for stuff like this. They give vehicle owners a standard that they must adhere to in order to satisfy the law. At the moment, the onus is on them to decide what's legal.

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There’s always been the misapprehension that all classic car owners are competent and keep their vehicle in top notch condition. Some it has to be said shouldn’t be anywhere near the tools.

[sierraman]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:42, horriblemercedes said:

This, pretty much. The bare minimum drivers will still be bare minimum while those who like cars and driving will continue to drive well-maintained and/or safe cars. I don't think that much would really change

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But surely we should be doing more to heavily penalise the ‘bare minimum’ folks?

[horriblemercedes]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:44, sierraman said:

But surely we should be doing more to heavily penalise the ‘bare minimum’ folks?

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I agree with you, but MOTs don't really do that in my opinion. Scraping pass after pass is barely a deterrent and even (in my opinion) might encourage people just to find completely bent MOT testers to pass their shitbox Fiesta for £50.

 

I would be happy to see it stay as a yearly test, but I don't think that it would make much difference were it to go to every other year. I'd welcome it for myself, but I'm confident that my cars are well-maintained so means that there's a bit less hassle for me organising and paying for tests. It's a long time since I had a car fail a test though.

[hennabm]

It may “save” the car owner around £40 a year but the garage trade will lose around 50% of their current work.

What do the gubberment think these people are going to do instead?

 

[artdjones]

  On 28/04/2022 at 10:21, Rust Collector said:

I've previously imported cars from Japan that were being sold having failed the test there, which then passed an MOT

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The Japanese test prescribes the replacement of many parts, even when completely unworn, and the costs of that are so high that 6 or 8 year old cars are no longer worth putting through the test, and are sold for use elsewhere. I don't think that's a safety thing, just a way to keep the local production lines moving.

[sierraman]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:53, hennabm said:

It may “save” the car owner around £40 a year but the garage trade will lose around 50% of their current work.

What do the gubberment think these people are going to do instead?

 

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The government aren’t interested in helping people and businesses who go out there to work, this scheme is designed to help dodge pots who can’t afford to run a car. 

[Rocket88]

I think the test is heavily skewed towards stuff that is “ easy” to fail. Warning lights for ABS, for example. Do the brakes still work perfectly well? Pass it , with an advisory.  Seen cars that have been failed for just an ABS light, no mention of terminally rusted brake lines…….

[artdjones]

  On 28/04/2022 at 11:53, hennabm said:

It may “save” the car owner around £40 a year but the garage trade will lose around 50% of their current work.

What do the gubberment think these people are going to do instead?

 

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There's some truth in that, but it's also true that a stitch in time saves nine. I.e., when the car is finally tested, instead of a new pair of shocks half the steering and suspension needs replacing. The same for slightly sticky brakes. So with the average UK driver, the garage will be able to charge one big bill instead of two small ones.

[Rust Collector]

  On 28/04/2022 at 12:03, artdjones said:

There's some truth in that, but it's also true that a stitch in time saves nine. I.e., when the car is finally tested, instead of a new pair of shocks half the steering and suspension needs replacing. The same for slightly sticky brakes. So with the average UK driver, the garage will be able to charge one big bill instead of two small ones.

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If people are really struggling with the cost of MOT now though then what the govt is proposing won't really help them when you think of it like that. If they struggle to find say £300 yearly to repair their car for the ticket then I'd imagine they won't be of the means/mentality to save monthly for the £600-1000 bill that awaits them instead 2 years down the line. It's kind of like that 'we'll give you some money off your utility bill which you then have to pay back anyway' idea.

[sierraman]

  On 28/04/2022 at 12:09, Rust Collector said:

If people are really struggling with the cost of MOT now though then what the govt is proposing won't really help them when you think of it like that. If they struggle to find say £300 yearly to repair their car for the ticket then I'd imagine they won't be of the means/mentality to save monthly for the £600-1000 bill that awaits them instead 2 years down the line. It's kind of like that 'we'll give you some money off your utility bill which you then have to pay back anyway' idea.

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If they can’t afford the repairs to keep it safe and on the road then they need to get off the road, you wouldn’t run a haulage company and go to VOSA ‘we’ve had a bad run past few months so we’ve not got the money to reline the brakes but we’ve still to earn money so we’re still running the truck’

I agree on the last bit especially, I could see them coming up with a scheme that its not £55 it’s £110 every two years. 🤣

[artdjones]

  On 28/04/2022 at 12:31, sierraman said:

agree on the last bit especially, I could see them coming up with a scheme that its not £55 it’s £110 every two years. 🤣

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That's what it is in Ireland for light commercials, even small vans, well,€113 pa. And it starts when the first anniversary of registration comes up.

[Zelandeth]

  On 27/04/2022 at 19:14, beko1987 said:

I think the same every time I see it TBH, but then remembering the average IQ of a modern car driver it's not surprising... The fact that it's you makes me sugest it probably did just go instantly as you're usually shit hot on that sort of thing

Is there any of it left? IE can you see where it's ripped off the fixings leaving bits of plastic and bolts in tact? If it's a clean break then I'd go with the bloody garage not doing it properly. It's a good 15 minute each way job on my car to get it on and off so I could see them skimping on it

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This is what's left.  Whole centre piece has gone.

[Bren]

  On 27/04/2022 at 09:07, RoverFolkUs said:

Biannual MOTs...

What an utterly fucking ridiculous idea

I see plenty of cars coming in as absolute deathtraps after just one year

"will ease the cost of living"

How? The advisories system would have to be far more stringent when the problem is likely to be ignored for 2 years instead of 1... 

I maybe in favour of an MOT after 3 years, then biannually from thereonwards until the car reaches X number of years old then back to annual tests. 

They toyed the idea of increasing first tests to 4 years, that idea soon fizzled out

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You will save £50. It will affect the motor trade greatly.

They could cut road tax but they won't because it is less for the treasury.

Not a week goes by without our shit show of a government demonstrating how utterly appalling they are.

[RoverFolkUs]

  On 28/04/2022 at 08:47, sierraman said:

Crazy idea this. If you can’t afford £40 for the test get off the road.

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100%

They could cut non-safety related items out of the test like emmissions or engine management lights to ease the cost of living 🤷‍♂️

That would be better than not having a test at all to find and remove the 10,000s of bald tyres from UK roads!

Or, maybe just maybe, stop putting VED up every year and cut the price a bit now, that's a safer cost cutting measure...

[RoverFolkUs]

  On 28/04/2022 at 13:57, Bren said:

You will save £50. It will affect the motor trade greatly.

They could cut road tax but they won't because it is less for the treasury.

Not a week goes by without our shit show of a government demonstrating how utterly appalling they are.

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They completely fucked garages over last year with the 6 month extension, took business away from them when they most needed it. 

I just mentioned about VED above before seeing you'd already mentioned it, If they're going to cut anything it would be a lot safer to cut that! 

[Ghosty]

Was told of a 53k one owner 2007 Fiesta that was being PXd for a Kia for a paltry £300.

I said I was interested and a £400 offer was sent to the guy on my behalf. I was told it was accepted and I was given the guys contact details. 

Rang him up and he's already chopped it in some time in the last couple of weeks???

[Zelandeth]

I am getting really pissed off with this Android update that installed itself a couple of days ago.  Seems to be basically anything involving Bluetooth or media playback are all in some way screwed up in addition to the entire printing subsystem.

[meggersdog]

JJ from Classic car weekly phoned this morning asking my opinion on these proposed two year MoTs.

I run an independent MoT station just doing mots no repairs. I told him if it comes in I'm locking the doors and walking away. No nuns or kittens were killed during the extension but you were only supposed to use your vehicle for essential journeys then. Like many self employed I applied for and got a grant to help, there won't be a grant for the year with no work this time though.

Looking at the figures one in three cars failed an MoT last month. Averaged across the country 24% of those failed on brakes, 33% failed on suspension ( no surprise there given the condition of our roads) and 22% on tyres. If this two year thing comes in then it needs to be more involved, removing wheels undertrays and such to inspect properly. This will take longer and because it is more involved then should cost more. Where is the saving for the average motorist ?

If I shut up shop my five figure income tax bill will go and my two members of staff will be signing on.......... Well thought out Mr government man.