Why don't I listen to myself?

[Barry Cade]

I purchased a minty 52 Plate Seat Toledo a few weeks back, as the old giffer was giving up driving. Sold it on to a mates dad who was looking for a bigger car as he had bought a caravan and he's into older stuff. I put it through an MOT and gave it a once over. It was always garage kept, and had a massive folder of receipts from a local well respected garage. I dropped the car off, promised him it was a good car and organised a date to fit a towbar and electrics to it. happy me, happy new owner and a few quid in my pocket.

 

HAH, I'd broken my own rules. I vowed a few years back NEVER to have anything to do with "modern" VAG cars. I fitted the towbar, which was no problem, and when doing this the new owner said he was sometimes having trouble opening the boot.. Wiring all broken where the hinge is.. Repaired this and left him happy, with a few quid in my back pocket.

A week later, I hear the floor in the back is soaking, the windows are running with water and there is a oily smell coming through the heaters. I pay a visit and yes, it's properly wet inside, and there is an oily smell inside. I remove the seats, carpets and reseal ALL the door interior panels, the metal ones that bolt to the door. The water was just running straight in as the shitty foam seals VAG use just turn to dust. I have a look at the breather system and all the rubber hoses are mush. Its a 1.8 20v BTW.

A few days later I get a call again.. The wipers won't switch off. I go through, do some diagnostics and the wiper motor is toast, park switch... and it's a sealed unit rivitted together so I go to the breakers and get another and fit that.  I don't in any way blame the new owner. I know him well and told him the car was right. I will keep my word. I don't blame the previous owner as he babied this car from new. It's the poor quality of the car and components that is at fault here.

I know all you VAG fanbois will shoot me down. I'm used to it.. I get the opposite with Rovers as I really rate them and have had many a pub arguement defending them, but I was a die hard VW man at one point.. wouldn't drive anything else. Jetta's, Sciroccos, Mk2 Passats with the 5.. Loved them. Then they went Mk4 Golf and I could not, and still can't believe all the shoddy parts, bad design and just pure stupidity that these cars incorporate. I must have lost 10 years dealing with just the doors on these things... window regulators, motors, door locks,keys  and handles. All A grade SHIT. To top it all, It's not a nice thing to drive, pretty gutless, very low geared and he's getting 23MPG with it, and drives very carefully. 

Before you all rip me apart.. I'm a mechanic to trade, and have been an MOT tester for near on 25 years. These comments aren't based on one car, like the one you might have had that did 300,000 miles without even an oil change, or your mate that has had loads and they are the best cars ever.. It's based on day in, day out dealing with them and seeing the Golf range in particular going from Mk2 to Mark whatever it is now. 

Discuss. I'm awaiting the flak.

 

In other news, I serviced my Focus yesterday. Its a 2.0 TDCi, mk 3. Have you seen where the flippin oil filter is? FFS.

[Matty]

I've still got a mk4 golf with that engine. Its ace. Im more than prepared to accept i got lucky.

Anyhow, in future LISTEN TO YOURSELF 🤣

[Tickman]

Amen to all that you said about newer Vag stuff from my experience with a certain Octavia.

It was very competent at what it did but it God was it needy.

[loserone]

I really liked that 1.8 20vt AUQ Toledo I bought from Trigger, ex Mr Lobster.  It wasn't rotten and it was fast and still got 35 mpg.  I swapped it for a Suzuki Alto, and I wouldn't dare get another.

[rusty_vw_man]

I’ve had bay, two beetles, MK1 golf, mk2 golf, old Lt28 and two T25s. All have been excellent most of the time. 

Had a mk3 golf estate and a mk5 golf, both of which were crap in comparison. Mk3 was just one big electrical gremlin, and the mk5 just kept shitting turbos. 

I love vws pre 1990, wouldn’t buy anything newer though I think they trade on a long past image of quality. 

[Cheezey]

I had a Mk4 Golf GTi 1.8T years ago. It was a 1999 and must only have been 7 seven years old when I got it. Nice thing to drive. I liked the dash and the seats (it had proper badged Recaros). It just fell to pieces around me though. Both front window regulators and cup holders went. Loads of niggly things. Quite a few big garage bills. Never failed to start or left me stranded though. 
I fancied modifying it but never got it to the point of being ahead of the problems to do that. 
 

[Tayne]

I had a ‘98 Audi A3 Tdi about 10 years ago, the engine was great but there were so many little things which had been cheaped out, brake callipers, wiper motors, door catches etc.

Definitely trading on a long gone reputation for quality.

[sierraman]

I’d go as far as to say Peugeot or Renault would be a better bet than a VW these days. Wait until you get one of those 2.0 Euro 5 oil filter housings that’s seized on because it’s been put on dry! On the positive though the fuel filter is easier, none of this pouring litres of diesel down your arms laid underneath antics. 

[horriblemercedes]

I'm with you. After too many bad experiences, I don't even consider Volkswagen group products when I'm looking for a car

 

I'm totally happy to consider Fords, Vauxhalls and just about anything else 

[Cavcraft]

[junkyarddog]

I totally agree with you,

I don't even rate the mk2 golf great in the reliability stakes and I own one.

😂

 

[pilninggas]

I'm always amazed by people who say that Renaults and Peugeots are shit and unreliable, and then reel off the £thousands they've spent babying some Volksbimmer from one year to the next. Quality, my arse.

[artdjones]

I haven't been doing much paid work on cars for the past few years, but I'm going to be working on a 2011 mk VI Golf this week. It's actually the first 1.6cr I'll have done the timing belt on.

A 1.6 HDi PSA timing kit has one belt, one tensioner and one idler.

The  1.6 TDI has three idlers.

What's that all about?

The PSA timing belt interval is 150k miles or 10 years. The VW interval is 120k or four years.  So VAG have added two extra components into the belt system but have half the time interval.

Most diesel cars have 2 fuel pumps, one in the tank and the main high pressure pump. Some only have one pump, as the high pressure pump has a lift pump incorporated. But in the Golf 6 VW  decided to fit a third intermediate pump between the tank pump and the main pump. Why? Also, after a fuel filter change you have to hook the car up to a computer to bleed out the fuel system, otherwise cranking the car over too much damages the hp pump. Not a problem with most makes 

It all sums VAG up. Lots of components that look beautifully engineered, but don't do anything. And with all their engineering rep they still can't get their cars through Nox test without criminal cheating.

Can you tell I don't like them?

[artdjones]

  On 07/12/2020 at 20:11, junkyarddog said:

I totally agree with you,

I don't even rate the mk2 golf great in the reliability stakes and I own one.

😂

 

Expand  

I owned 2 B2 Passat diesels back in the good old days, when VWs were reliable*. They were the most needy cars I've ever had.

The first blew the head gasket. It was replaced.Then the rings went. A good s/h engine went in. It ran great. Until the head gasket went. At that stage I broke it for spares. I ran into the previous owner's son a couple of month later. He informed me that that car was already on its third engine when I bought it.

A year later I got another which I ran for 60000 miles. That blew it's head gasket and was repaired. Then a piston started breaking up. Another engine was installed. Then the head gasket went. After that was replaced it did soldier on for a couple of years before I sold it. I also had to replace the gearbox in that car.

I did run a MK2 Golf van for a year about 15 years ago and had no disasters.

My experience, even back 25 to thirty years ago, was that Citroens and Peugeots were a better bet for reliability over a VW.

[Barry Cade]

  On 07/12/2020 at 20:03, horriblemercedes said:

 

 

I'm totally happy to consider Fords, Vauxhalls and just about anything else 

Expand  

I didn't  mention Vauxhalls .. thought it was a given that people knew about them 😁..  they don't bother me so much as they don't push the " if only everything was as reliable as a Vauxhall "  VAG really bother me as they still trade on a reputation they gained 30 odd years ago. I think everyone on here would agree the Cavalier was an excellent car, but Vauxhall's ( and Opel's in Europe)reputation went down the toilet really quickly

 

I like Fiat's.  I get ripped because I like Fiat's.  I find them reliable, easy to work on and cheap to fix. I find there aren't many issues that keep recurring. No one listens.. I mention VAG group cars are shite and I worry my house will get burned down.. Audi especially, can do no wrong.

 

[rickvw72]

Devils advocate view incoming...

ive got and had several, currently with a 72 bug, 89 caravelle t25, and 90 Golf GTI. 
Owned them for 21years, 11 years and 13 years respectively.
Ive been in the trade 22 years, 17 in garages, 5 in teaching, still have some involvement in the motor trade to this day.

The three I’ve got are great cars, looked after them and I’ve had only 2 recoverys in 21 years, a dead carb on the bug maybe 20years ago, and a snapped tie rod on the van about 5 years ago.

I wouldn’t have kept them this time if they were not any good, the’ve also outlasted any other makers stuff massively, and lets be honest here, none of the cars I own could really be considered rare, which is miraculous considering their average age - how many G reg Transits are left? H reg Astra’s, or 1972 Austin 1100s?
 

With older VWs, many people the world over have kept them going for one reason or another, for years and years. This is not always due to a desperation to be in a scene or summat, but because, really they are excellent cars, with a reputation for lasting. The sheer numbers around back this view up.

Modern times things are different I agree. The quality isn’t the same, just like in reality Mercedes, BMW and Volvo. Saab went backwards too with the vauxhall era.

Until last month I daily drove a 130 pd Golf, for 55,000 miles. It never broke down, did 50 mpg everywhere, had heated seats and air con for summer. It would break every uk speed limit with gears to spare, cruise at 100mph for days if you could. I can’t call it shit really, or overrated, or compute how a Focus or Astra is better. Mine was stock as a rock and not tuned. 

As anyone could tell you from the trade, all brands have issues. I’m onto a cheap Honda Accord, and known issues are driveshafts, clutches and exhaust manifolds, along with calipers seizing, egr issues and the usual myriad of used car issues. 
 

It’s not unusual to even see that holy grail of reliability, but soul sappingly dull Toyota Avensis, both petrol and diesel, with a fucked (as in unrepairable) engine, if you hang around the trade with any regularity.

 

[dome]

Ooh, my thread has arrived!

Yes, they are overpriced, overmarketed pieces of crap these days and far from the "quality" image they like to get across. The MK2 Octavia I bought was a hopeless piece of shit and as for the S4 which shat itself in spectacular fashion earlier this year well, the less said about that the better.

The plus point to that is there's a good chance breaking it will net me more than selling it complete had it still been working, such is the voracity with which the fanbois will buy anything with an Audi S logo on it.

It was an amazing car to drive to be fair, right up to the point it didn't drive any more. 

 

[Asimo]

I bought a brand-new Golf mk4 so I know that you are correct.

VAG peaked about 1986*and have been living on marketing bullshit ever since.

 

**Junkman-year

[Matty]

  On 07/12/2020 at 20:10, Cavcraft said:

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Yup. Plenty of this. Tbf though they spread it across the group 😆

Edit - mine has two complete front wings. Just please don't touch them too hard...

[SiC]

  On 07/12/2020 at 19:18, Barry Cade said:

In other news, I serviced my Focus yesterday. Its a 2.0 TDCi, mk 3. Have you seen where the flippin oil filter is? FFS.

Expand  

Could be worse, our 2010 A4 doesn't even have a dipstick...

HOWEVER

(Actually reading 198500 now)

On the original engine, turbo, injectors, fuel pump(s), EGR never cleaned and the DPF original. About 50k of that has been city driving at 20mph too. 

I've known this car since around 5k miles. It's had two front wheel bearings, clutch, gearbox input shaft bearing, fuel rail pressure valve, many brake pads+discs, tyres and oil+filters. Due another cambelt soon, I may treat it to one. Gearbox bearing was blamed by an Audi dealer on the backstreet garage not fitting the clutch properly. The backstreet garage did the job and picked up the tab to fix that.  

BUT I still don't like modern VAG. Nice to drive and sit in when working, but too soleless and overpriced. 

Plan is to keep running this till something expensive goes pop. Pretty much does everything you need a car to do and does it well tbh. 

[Mally]

I may buy my next car from you.

Then every time something goes wrong I know who to ring😀

[SiC]

In-laws replaced my old Civic they had off me with a 3yr old C200d that's done under 40k miles. They've had it a few months but barely done any miles in it. EML came on, dealer are replacing the turbo...

Thankfully they bought it from a Main Merc dealer and so have a decent warranty on it. 

[Matty]

There's a theme forming here. Car manufacturers don't make stuff as good as they used to. Thing is they were always rotting or breaking in years gone by as well. Just easier to mend back then. Cars in general have become far too complicated for their own good, as reflected in ever increasing weight. As I've said a million times, peak car was from the mid 90s to early 2000s. Theyd cracked reliability, nearly cracked rot proofing but hadn't saddled em with superfluous electrics and gadgets. Mk3 cavalier, citroens zx and xsara, mk1 megane, the list is endless. Happy times

[twosmoke300]

100 percent agree ! The only good thing they have done is the 1.9Pd . The rest is wank 

[Barry Cade]

When I went to get the wiper motor at the scrappies, I saw a nice spec mk1 scenic sitting amongst all the porridge. I'd never have given them a second glance a few years back, and remember doing a lot of swearing the first time I did a renner 16v timing belt, with the special tools and camshaft seals.. now I look at them as a proper hardy car, and really well made. 

 

Chatting to boss man the other day. Our euro 6 or whatever Iveco Dailys are averaging 18.3 mpg and take ad blue.  The euro 4, pre ad blue ones were doing 26... I blame all this emissions crap for many of the engine issues that are getting more common now.  Roll on the electric revolution. I think the ICE cars and maybe car companies have disappeared up their own are.

[Barry Cade]

  On 07/12/2020 at 21:15, Mally said:

I may buy my next car from you.

Then every time something goes wrong I know who to ring😀

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I'd hate be be a decent dealer now. I now know how Mr NSU felt with the Wankel...  you gotta stand by your product, even if it doesn't work..

[1duck]

  On 07/12/2020 at 20:18, pilninggas said:

I'm always amazed by people who say that Renaults and Peugeots are shit and unreliable, and then reel off the £thousands they've spent babying some Volksbimmer from one year to the next. Quality, my arse.

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Renaults and Peugeot are shit though, they aren't even trading off a past image of quality. 

 

Modern VW is the reason I'll force feed anyone who asks for a reliable car a mid 90s corolla/yaris/civic/accord/micra

[sierraman]

I used to work for a company we had loads of B5 Passats, really good car, brilliant on fuel, comfortable etc. Wore the miles really well. Anyway, they brought the B6 out about this time, the drop in quality was marked, plastics were cheaper and it didn’t feel anything like as solid. Never been a fan of the Golf after the Mk2, they were a genuine cut above the Astra/Escort etc. Polo, again they’ve always felt antiquated in comparison to the competition. 

Like a lot of ‘premium’ brands like Barbour, once a sign of quality, owned by a man of means they used to get sent back to the makers every so often to be re waxed. Now it’s just a cheap quilted jacket worn by bums that hang about in Yates. I’ve a pair of Hunters, they’re at least 45 years old, they were my dads then he gave them me in my teens. 45 years old and they don’t leak one bit. But a new pair expect a year or 3 out of them and they’d fall to bits. 

[Bren]

All stuff nowadays  is chock full of thousands of parts all sourced from the cheapest bidder. Most manufacturers consider 100k as the useful life for their vehicles.

Our passat was 16 years old. Front wings had been replaced but the tailgate had rusted through. Carpets were wet from water getting past the door seals. Yes it was 16 years old - but a contemporary  vectra or mondeo would'nt have had these issues - yet the VW was a premium car. Premium - most pretentious word ever. 

Which is why I personally think running an old modern is getting too expensive. I have actually considered getting something new - I am near 50 with two children and I work shitty hours - I have little enthusiasm for fixing stuff nowadays. Plus due to the cost and complexity I am finding out much of the trade are running from anything which has the potential to be awkward. Take our vectra for instance - the garage who took it no longer want to go near it despite not even looking at it. Easier to do a few sets of pads and discs than pull the top end off an engine. One of my previous MOT places freely admitted they would'nt touch diesels with turbo / running issues. Fair enough except much of todays vehicles are diesel. I think with the increase in EV a lot of them will have to up their game or go to the wall.

I expect their to be a post apocalyptic wasteland soon. I will be buying a car with points and a carb - something that will still run after an EMP.

Probably a corolla. A cockroach.

 

[bigfella2]

I have always been a vw fanboy, had a MK2 golf, MK2 caddy and currently a MK3 caddy. It may not look like I have had many VW's but I keep my cars for years.

MK2 golf brilliant, MK2 caddy TDI epic, MK3 caddy absolute toss.

I'll put it this way, I have a MK3 caddy and a Clio 182, and the Clio is the reliable daily. French all the way for me from now on (but may have to scratch an a2 shaped itch before that).