welding project Juular's Scandi Noir. Volvo C70, 240 &122. Dodgy rear end.

[grogee]

On 02/09/2024 at 13:17, juular said:

I've also started taking steps to sort out the annoying exhaust drone.  I picked up one of these decibel killers from the same manufacturer as the exhaust itself. It just hammers into a straight section and acts a bit like a hemholtz resonator in that it bounces soundwaves back up the pipe.

Curious to know if this works. My Maestro is too loud inside, especially on a cruise. I was thinking of maybe just getting a custom stainless system made up with the brief of 'not loud but still fast'. But that is obviously spendy.

Do they do different diameters? Where did you get it? 

[juular]

14 minutes ago, grogee said:

Curious to know if this works. My Maestro is too loud inside, especially on a cruise. I was thinking of maybe just getting a custom stainless system made up with the brief of 'not loud but still fast'. But that is obviously spendy.

Do they do different diameters? Where did you get it? 

In summary, and as @Supernaut suspected, it didn't do much at all.  It may well have reduced maximum decibels and be measurable on a sound meter, but in terms of how it feels, I haven't really noticed any reduction to the boominess..

Here's the one I bought. They do different diameter ones, although their web shop is not that easy to find things on.

Jetex Exhausts Ltd – Decibel insert [2 inch] [aluminised steel] L=280mm

I'm not really sure where to go next with this.  I've sealed up every join on the exhaust with foil tape to eliminate leaks as the cause, and it's definitely the deep bass emanating from the backbox that's causing the problem.  I'm also considering handing it in to an exhaust place and saying 'fix it'.  I get the feeling a backbox with more restrictive baffling would solve it, and if I lose a few BHP, I feel this engine has plenty to spare so I'd be fine with it.

[Supernaut]

1 hour ago, juular said:

In summary, and as @Supernaut suspected, it didn't do much at all.  It may well have reduced maximum decibels and be measurable on a sound meter, but in terms of how it feels, I haven't really noticed any reduction to the boominess..

Here's the one I bought. They do different diameter ones, although their web shop is not that easy to find things on.

Jetex Exhausts Ltd – Decibel insert [2 inch] [aluminised steel] L=280mm

I'm not really sure where to go next with this.  I've sealed up every join on the exhaust with foil tape to eliminate leaks as the cause, and it's definitely the deep bass emanating from the backbox that's causing the problem.  I'm also considering handing it in to an exhaust place and saying 'fix it'.  I get the feeling a backbox with more restrictive baffling would solve it, and if I lose a few BHP, I feel this engine has plenty to spare so I'd be fine with it.

I ended up buying a standard spec back box for my 323i, I should have done that 3 years ago.

I now have a Powerflow back box sitting in the shed and nobody off gumtree wants to buy it.

[Sunny Jim]

Great sleuthing getting to the bottom of your electrical problems - hope additional earths do the trick.

[juular]

15 hours ago, Supernaut said:

I ended up buying a standard spec back box for my 323i, I should have done that 3 years ago.

I now have a Powerflow back box sitting in the shed and nobody off gumtree wants to buy it.

This is what I thought about doing, but since the new exhaust is much larger bore than the original I'll need to find a standard exhaust off something else.  Anyone know which cars have a 2 inch exhaust as standard?

[juular]

My head has not really been up for much of anything at the moment, but I took some time yesterday to chuck a couple of new earth straps onto the Amazon engine to see if it sorts the electrical fault.

I don't know how much the positioning of earth straps matter as long as they go to a bit of chassis or body, so I have attached one between the alternator bracket and front panel, and between the exhaust manifold and bulkhead.

Interestingly I noticed that where the throttle bar is resting against the stop, there was a bit of wear that looked different from normal mechanical wear, which is perhaps the smoking gun that some arcing has been taking place there.

I did try to take it out a run, but it wasn't for starting. Eventually tracked the problem down to the ignition points gap having closed up so far that it doesn't break contact at all.  I reset the gap, but by that stage I'd drained the battery, so it got plugged in to charge and left where it is.

I tried to remember when I last set the points gap or did any routine maintenance on the igition bits, then realised that I haven't done anything since the car went on the road which coincidentally is about exactly one year ago! So that's a bit of a milestone in itself. Happy birthday.

If the earth straps solve the electrical fault, then I'm down to just two non-urgent things to fix on this car. 

Firstly, the boomy exhaust which still does my nut in.  I'm thinking the first step here is to find a cheap 2 inch backbox from another car and bolt it on and see how it sounds.  That is proving a bit difficult as it's impossible to find from browsing parts what the diameter of the inlet pipes are.  I know that 240s use a 2 inch system so I might try picking up a used backbox from one and see how that works out. I'm open to suggestions here though.

The other option there is to dismantle the Simon's backbox and change it from a straight-through design to a baffled design by fabricating some parts and rearranging the internals.  That's the cheapest but largest faff option, but it means I get to use the parts I've already paid for and I don't see myself making it much worse!

Universal off-the shelf silencers seem to all be of the straight through type which is not going to help matters at all.

The last issue with the car is the brake lines, which although I made new ones up this time last year from so-called kunifer pipe, they have all rusted to fuck and look terrible. I don't have much faith in the pipes actually lasting much longer. I'm going to redo the whole car in halfords brake line since I've found it seems decent quality. 

[juular]

The winter blues have kicked my arse this year and I really couldn't face doing much with the fleet other than just keeping it hanging by a thread and providing basic transport as much as possible. 

C70

I stopped using the C70 some time in December as the steering started to feel grim, as in steering a rowing boat grim. The previous MOT in February '24 flagged up dodgy wishbone bushes and a track rod end, and nearly a year on from that I realised I'd had my money's worth out of them and it was time to sort it.

Good intentions sat on the shelf for quite some time!

At the weekend @Lacquer Peel offered to help and we got stuck in to it, doing a side each.  With extra hands it really didn't take too long to do both wishbones and inner/outer track rods on both sides.  I'm hugely grateful for the help.

The left side wasn't bad and I don't think it deserved a mention on the MOT at all.  The right side was absolutely humped though.

Final problem was to fix this.

On a hunch I jammed a bit of metal down the plug at the side of the ABS ECU and it appears to have gone away. Hooray.

Car drives lovely now and is booked for its MOT tomorrow. Forts and priors.

240

The 240 has been my winter daily since November and has done well enough with my normal 50 miles a day, with mostly niggles and annoyances but has never really caused a major upset.

Biggest pain in the arse is when it sometimes wouldn't run properly from cold, in a totally random manner.  Cue the usual K-Jet headfuckery checking pressures and flows and everything else.  Inexplicably the control pressure would go really high on a cold start causing it to run essentially off-choke lean, which was nice when it was -8C outside. 

Sometimes all I'd need to do was wiggle some things and it would instantly run perfectly again. A complete head mincing pain in the arse problem.

Eventually, I tracked it down to a kinked return line off the warmup regulator. Of course, this was hidden right down out of sight and so I would never have noticed unless I decided to DISMANTLE THE WHOLE SYSTEM AGAIN AND FIND IT AT THE VERY END.

Apart from that, it has just been doing usual 240 things, such as the shit fusebox melting the shit modern plastic 'ceramic' fuses for fun, resulting in randomly no heater fan, indicators or lights. Again, nice when it's -8C outside.

A good fusebox cleanup and bending the contacts inwards helped a lot, and most importantly, it never left me stranded.

After a month and a bit of commuting it had been well and truly pickled in the salt.

It got a nice jolly out in the snow.

It also made it to a local car meet, ensuring that 1988 Volvo 240 GLT saloons outnumbered everything else there.

 

Amazon

I'd carefully trundled the Amazon to a couple of local car meets in November, but no further than this because rightly or wrongly I had zero faith in the now very crusty looking brake lines. It was here that I noticed the heating had failed and the temperature needle was sitting really low.

Simple enough fix.

At the same time I fixed the grumpy sounding horn (earth fault) and reset the timing again.  I also managed to find a unicorn tears chrome embellisher for the last remaining unadorned wheel.  I think they look great in black and chrome.

I'm also still amazed at how good the Phosphoric Acid has been at shrugging off rain and salt and keeping the roof and boot lid almost completely rust free despite being uncoated in any way.  The roof looks the same as it did in the summer when I originally treated it.

 

At the weekend since I'd had success with the C70 I finally decided it was time to make a start on replacing the fuzzy brake lines.

So, bearing in mind that I fitted all these lines from new around a year ago, this is a grim situation to be in.

Now, you may think these don't look too bad, but bear in mind these were sold to me as kunifer pipes, which should never rust this way. Normally oxidisation on kunifer would be a sort of coppery green-blue like you'd see on a penny which is totally harmless.  The reason these freaked me out is that obviously I'd been conned on the pipes, so I was also a bit sceptical of any other specifications they were supposed to have. Given how incredibly crusty they'd gone in a short time I envisaged one of the flares simply popping off.  Not the thing you want to happen on an old car with single circuit brakes.

The decision maker for me was seeing the stuff I had stored in a dry shed corroded badly inside and out. What a load of shit.

So, I dumped the fluid starting from the back axle.

 

Still really happy with how nice this car looks underneath.

Long underfloor pipe. GRIM!

New pipes made up from Halfords brake line.  I don't want to flare another pipe for a good few decades, thanks.

Just need to finish fitting this lot, fill with fluid and bleed it, and the Amazon can go back to terrorising the neighbourhood.

[danthecapriman]

I share your pain with the winter blues. Awful awful time of year. Normally starts with me around late October and gets progressively worse until the clocks go forward again. Depressing!

Never seen fake copper/kunifer line before. Is it just steel with a thin plating over it then!?

[beko1987]

Blimey that brake pipe 😱

I know you'll be replacing it right now and as much of a faff as it is, youll do a good job and not find it very difficult. But

Imagine if you'd paid a grand to a garage/fb driveway matey 18 months ago fully unable to do it yourself and it happened 😬 got to be fake stuff surely? The 24 year old og lines on my Xsara look better

[warninglight]

It already feels like it's been a long winter, you're not alone there!

Great work keeping the fleet alive, those brake pipes are a bit scary! Were they from a reputable supplier? I have rolls of kunifer here from Beal Workshop Supplies which I'm procrastinating making up for the Laplander. I'm hoping it's a job I'll do once!

Saw a video on reddit yesterday of a firework fight prior to a stabbing in Paisley, with this poor Torslanda caught in the midst. Fancy a humanitarian mission to get it to safety?

[JakeT]

I’ve also been the same. The salt on the roads and lack of light means I just don’t drive my old car. I last used it in December when I had to put my in my mum and dad’s garage as we were having work done and the chaps needed ours. The MOT on it runs out on the 25th, and I don’t think I’ll get it in for one then.

 

those brake pipes looked total shit, seeing that on copper based pipe would put the shits up me, too.

[mat_the_cat]

I'm getting so, SO sick of the enshitification of things. Have just replaced the washer pump on the LR for the 4th time in under 5 years! This time with something from a tatty 80s box - I would put money on this lasting longer than a year.

[danthecapriman]

1 hour ago, mat_the_cat said:

I'm getting so, SO sick of the enshitification of things. Have just replaced the washer pump on the LR for the 4th time in under 5 years! This time with something from a tatty 80s box - I would put money on this lasting longer than a year.

Yep. I expect most of the problems now come from one main thing - ‘made in China’! Cheap nasty junk.

[juular]

22 hours ago, warninglight said:

Fancy a humanitarian mission to get it to safety?

Game if you are!  I need some parts anyway 😁

While we are at it, we should save this one.

[juular]

Work on the C70 has paid off. Good old bus!

 

Now I can focus on the Amazon and my Trafic which needs a timing chain that I have been playing roulette on for several years..

Regarding the Amazon brake lines, I did just find out that Halfords brake line is entirely copper, which I wasn't aware of.  I was told by a garage that it was the best stuff and decent kunifer, so I don't know if this is something which has changed in recent years.

Is there a consensus on whether copper pipes are alright?  Everywhere I look seems to think the world will end and they are highly illegal (they aren't!). 

 

23 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Is it just steel with a thin plating over it then!?

I honestly don't know what it is. It feels stiffer than copper/kunifer but significantly less difficult to flare than stainless. So it may well just be mild steel with a copper plating.   I did notice that when scraped, it goes bright silver and then rusts. So probably just mild steel.

2 hours ago, mat_the_cat said:

This time with something from a tatty 80s box - I would put money on this lasting longer than a year.

For any non rubber parts, absolutely this is the way to go. Even shit brands from the 80s are better than the badge engineered slop of today. 

I did make the mistake of trying to buy some 80s NOS bearings and rubber seals but they all arrived rusty/perished sadly.

It's so difficult to navigate the modern parts market. I find I have to research brands that previously I would have not given a second thought about buying, such as Pagid brakes. Once a go-to, they're now ECP cheapest of the cheap shit. Utterly depressing!

51 minutes ago, danthecapriman said:

Yep. I expect most of the problems now come from one main thing - ‘made in China’! Cheap nasty junk.

Some of the decent modern brands are now moving their production to China. I've noticed for example FAG and INA bearings are now made in China, although to be fair they do still seem to be of decent quality. I guess it's all in the quality control, and the bought-out names have very little whatsoever. 

[mat_the_cat]

12 hours ago, danthecapriman said:

Yep. I expect most of the problems now come from one main thing - ‘made in China’! Cheap nasty junk.

Well yes, it often is, but...

11 hours ago, juular said:

Some of the decent modern brands are now moving their production to China. I've noticed for example FAG and INA bearings are now made in China, although to be fair they do still seem to be of decent quality. I guess it's all in the quality control, and the bought-out names have very little whatsoever. 

...in my experience Chinese companies are capable of manufacturing to a good standard, if they are asked to. But real (rather than perceived) quality doesn't appear to come high up the list when you're outsourcing to a country of cheap labour. Whether that be China or anywhere else.

[captain_70s]

On 23/01/2025 at 12:18, juular said:

Is there a consensus on whether copper pipes are alright?  Everywhere I look seems to think the world will end and they are highly illegal (they aren't!). 

Better than steel, not as good as kunifer.

I think the main issue is from it going brittle if shaking about under a car. But it should all be clipped in place anyway.

[dome]

On 23/01/2025 at 12:18, juular said:

Is there a consensus on whether copper pipes are alright?  Everywhere I look seems to think the world will end and they are highly illegal (they aren't!). 

 

I have used copper from Halfords and Kunifer from a decent place near me. I prefer copper to work with as it's softer and easier to flare but my flaring tool is a cheap one. 

[EyesWeldedShut]

Just done the CLK and Freeloader steel to Kunifer using this sort of handheld flare tool. Also did the 940 with it.
Also have copper in the shed but find that I can never get it formed off the roll into straight lines for some reason.

Spend £7.89 on a really cheap bendy tool that's ace (can't see it handling 10mm pipe but its OK on 3/16)

[danthecapriman]

32 minutes ago, captain_70s said:

Better than steel, not as good as kunifer.

I think the main issue is from it going brittle if shaking about under a car. But it should all be clipped in place anyway.

This.

Theres nothing wrong with copper brake pipe. I’ve used it for many years. Never once have I ever had or seen it fail unless something has hit it or ripped it off etc. but, it needs to be clipped into place properly, which any brake and fuel lines should be anyway. 
Tbh, the kunifer stuff has been made into a much bigger issue than it ever needed to be imho by the motoring press like Practical Classics etc etc. Yes, it’s better than copper, but there’s nothing wrong with copper. If there was you wouldn’t be able to buy it from motor factors in big coils sold specifically for brake line, it’d also be regulated against. 
Steel is the one people should be most concerned about given how quickly it can rust through!

[DSdriver]

I guess we need to check any brake pipe we buy with  magnet. Also useful for 316 grade (A4) stainless steel. The A2 is slightly magnetic.

[mat_the_cat]

4 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

Also have copper in the shed but find that I can never get it formed off the roll into straight lines for some reason.

I roll it between a couple of planks and that straightens it out nicely from the roll. Bit trickier if it's been bent a couple of times though.

I've also used copper for years without seeing any issues, but agree that kunifer is arguably a better material.  I think if there was a significant risk to using copper then it would be legislated against.

[juular]

Got the Amazon brake lines refitted at the weekend.

I decided to stick with the copper lines. I decided it's best to follow the advice of people I know and respect over random internet pearl clutching.  I do try to investigate things properly when I read something may be dangerous, but I also find that 99% of the time it's just people who have never touched a spanner reciting stuff they heard in a pub once.

 

Since I used the copper lines, I followed the advice to clip them as often as possible by adding in new clip points.

 

 

The engine bay really needs a wash after all the effort I put in to making it looking decent last year.

 

 

Bleeding this car is easy. A few pumps on the pedal to refill the master cylinder, and then I opened all 4 bleed screws and left it for 20 minutes. When I came back I had a half empty reservoir and 4 puddles on the drive.  Shut the bleed nipples and tested the pedal. Perfect.

Test drive. After being laid up since November I wondered how it would start, but once fuel got back into the carbs it instantly fired up on 4.

 

Brakes felt perfect, but I had a real problem with the car steaming up even with the fan on. A reach down into the footwell confirmed that pretty much all of the air was being blown out past dodgy seals in the heater box and onto the floor.  

I of course opted to fix this with an OEM seal kit.

While I was furiously taping things I also removed the big plastic front to rear ducting that goes over the transmission tunnel. I think this is for demisting the rear windscreen but in reality it doesn't do much at all and just robs precious power needed to demist the front. I then taped up the vent that fed air to it. Seems to have made a big difference.

[cort1977]

On 24/01/2025 at 13:22, danthecapriman said:

This.

Theres nothing wrong with copper brake pipe. I’ve used it for many years. Never once have I ever had or seen it fail unless something has hit it or ripped it off etc. but, it needs to be clipped into place properly, which any brake and fuel lines should be anyway. 
Tbh, the kunifer stuff has been made into a much bigger issue than it ever needed to be imho by the motoring press like Practical Classics etc etc. Yes, it’s better than copper, but there’s nothing wrong with copper. If there was you wouldn’t be able to buy it from motor factors in big coils sold specifically for brake line, it’d also be regulated against. 
Steel is the one people should be most concerned about given how quickly it can rust through!

A lot of the stuff on t'internet is from the states, for some reason Americans seem firmly wedded to the idea that Nuns and Kittens will die if anything other than steel lines are used.

They are also a bit weird about making up lines by flaring, I once asked a garage in Houston to put in a new section of line for the self-levelling hydraulics on a Mercedes and he looked at me like I'd asked for a go on his wife before vaguely claiming that was dangerous and possibly illegal.

[Spiny Norman]

Mine used to leak quite badly from the screen surround (as lots of them do), is your driver's carpet wet? I ended up pulling what passed for carpeting in mine out during winter and just putting a mat onto the bare floorpan and emptying it as necessary.
I also found the heater could boil off the water in about 5 miles... 😛

[juular]

8 hours ago, Spiny Norman said:

Mine used to leak quite badly from the screen surround (as lots of them do), is your driver's carpet wet? I ended up pulling what passed for carpeting in mine out during winter and just putting a mat onto the bare floorpan and emptying it as necessary.
I also found the heater could boil off the water in about 5 miles... 😛

It did, until I tigersealed the hell out of it 😄

[juular]

Couple of wee things done to tick off some boxes on the Amazon.

When I fitted the larger front anti roll bar I had to drill a new hole up through the chassis leg. While this works fine I noticed that the bolt looked like it was starting to pull itself into the metal a little bit.

I was just raking around some bits at work that were going in the bin and I found the perfect washers to spread the load a bit.

Next up I wanted to sort the oil that was pooling in the spark plug recesses. I made a mess of fitting the valve cover gasket back in October and crushed one of the edges.

While I was in there I checked the valve clearances which hadn't budged since last time, so it seems I don't have to worry about unleaded fuel damaging the valve seats just yet.

New gasket clipped in properly this time.

Fresh set of spark plugs from a pleasingly NOS package.

Finally I thought it was time to give @MrsJuular her Toledo alternator back since I'd now fixed the ground fault.

Firstly had to refit the fan and pulley to my one, which needed an impact gun and a dab of thread locker.

Triumph one removed and new one fitted in 10 minutes. Old cars M9.

Then off for a little drive around the roads locally, and a trip to a Chinese supermarket.

Still runs lovely and the steering and handling is so sharp with the upgrades. Still hate the exhaust. Taping the hell out of the heater fan also helped a lot and kept the interior unmisted.

Got home to a nice view of Venus rising beside a crescent moon.

These are the very rare lazy oily rag maintenance Sundays that make owning an old shitter fun so I'm trying to enjoy it while it lasts.

[Jim Bell]

Always great to see this thread bob to the top. Lovely stuff. 

[warninglight]

As above!

And what a long way it has come since I first set eyes on it nearly 5 years ago.

[juular]

Time for a guest appearance from my most modern conveyance, just to share my immeasurable pain with you lot.

When I say modern, I always classed it as such but it's now 12 years old which is a bit frightening.

I have been putting off doing the timing chain on my 2013 Trafic campervan for a couple of years now.  I have often read that the magic number for changing these, despite Renault claiming 'fit for life', is around 100k.  It's now on 125k. I also kept getting told 'it'll be fine', but since I intend to keep the van as long as possible I may as well put the effort in and change it, so that I can forget about it and enjoy roadside breakdowns for other different and exciting reasons. 

Anyone who has done work on these before will know it's pretty much impossible to do anything other than check the dipstick without removing the entire front end.  Everything is piled vertically into a short letterbox opening.

Opening the bonnet and looking at the stuff that needs undone, I got that sinking feeling right away.

I always knew this would be a shit job.  When all of the garages you try to palm it off onto refuse to take the job, you know it's going to be an especially shit job.

It was a shit job.

The sheer amount of stuff that needs to come off is just the first part.

And then you're left staring at this monstrosity.

What the fuck even is that?  

Also, it took me a full day, as in a full 9-5 with barely any time for an enjoyable poo, to get to this point.  Every single bolt goes into an absolutely seized captive nut / spire nut that is held in place by plastic. So as you can imagine as soon as you touch it, it rips through the plastic and just spins in place.  The majority of the day was spent with a drill and a grinder.

Day two was spent removing the crank pulley, drive belt and tensioner, and then moving on to the timing cover.

The timing cover took me a half day to get off because I didn't want to destroy it, and the sealant used by Renault is like cement. I eventually managed it by tapping a steel ruler round the perimeter of the cover which was surprisingly difficult given the access.

Once that's off, access to do the chain is actually alright. I could have removed the diesel pipes but I just worked round them.

So here is where I'm glad I decided to take this job on rather than listen to the "It'll be fine M7" people.

That's at least 10mm of stretch in the old chain.

I did wonder why the cam sprocket hold down tool didn't fit in the holes properly.

Doing the chain swap itself was a piece of piss especially with the timing tools.  I coated it in a generous amount of chain break-in lube and then an even more generous amount of RTV to seal the timing cover.

With possibly the most clenching I've ever experienced I filled it up and turned the key, and it burst into life in a half turn sounding lovely.

It only took me the majority of a day to refit the front end with various random nuts and bolts and an incredibly large number of cable ties.

At the very least it will be much easier to dismantle next time, as it will mostly involve cutting cable ties.

Back onto more interesting technology, the Amazon enjoyed another trip out to a local car gathering. I left a strange guy with an orange face to rub himself up and down the Amazon doors (in the background here) and instead admired this Manta.

We then went a run up to Dunblane for coffee and cake which turned out to be a really unpleasant drive thanks to the deafening exhaust, and the now returned smell of oil vapour filling the cabin.

Hmm, that stain on the bonnet pretty much sums it up.

Both the valve cover and the oil cap are now leaking despite fitting a brand new cork gasket.

I have a new silicone gasket on order which hopefully will arrive before Twixfest this Sunday.

In very positive news I think I've sorted the exhaust drone completely. What witchcraft did I employ? I simply removed the decibel killer insert I added previously, then refitted it where it was supposed to go. 

See, the instructions say to fit the insert to 300mm of straight pipe.  Turns out this is bullshit advice, the insert needs to be inserted deep into the backbox so that it acts as a baffle to push the soundwaves into the wadding, otherwise it does nothing.  

So I'm pinging @Supernaut and @grogee with an update regarding this.

The difference with the DB killer in the correct place is astounding. The exhaust is a little bit more farty but the deep drone that shook the whole body of the car has completely gone. It actually sounds a bit more gruff and sporty and less like I'm just running a big straight pipe.

With this and the valve cover sealed I'm going to actually enjoy driving the car again.

A couple of random pictures to tag on. Here's proof that the C70 is a hot car.

And also, fucked and rotten diesel Maestro vans are worth actual money it seems. (We had a day out at the Errol classic auction).