project 1951 Lanchester LD10 - Welding Near Wood

[MikeKnight]

Will this require lead additive? I'm assuming the head is cast iron. So yes in that case.

[Tadhg Tiogar]

9 minutes ago, MikeKnight said:

Will this require lead additive? I'm assuming the head is cast iron. So yes in that case.

Tetraboost (which is tetraethyl lead) will cover that.

[lesapandre]

More Lanchester archives - mostly early stuff.

http://www.lanchesterinteractive.org/how-the-bombs-of-the-blitz-destroyed-the-first-all-british-motor-car-77-years-ago-today/

[treehugger]

Top marks, that s one hell of a thing to have in your garage.

[vulgalour]

It has oil pressure!  I don't know how much, but the light goes out when it should, so that's a BIG thing.  Also been ordering some consumable parts which hasn't even proven particularly difficult yet.  Heck, the things we needed are so generic we even got some of them from Halfords.

[nigel bickle]

Baines make extrusions for bulk sale - although they will sell individual lengths. But they have no clue what it’s being fitted too. I used a catalogue to match, or sent a small sample for matching.   They had no clue what is was being used for.

At one time I was buying so much their Sales rep came to see me- somewhat bemused that I wasn’t commercial.

ive had no call to use them for several years, but expect they are still there. Good stuff, too - always solved the problems mentioned., and pliable years on.

[Christine]

It used to be like Morgan ..wood .panel walls , old offices bakelite phones ..but they're on 

North Farm industrial site now and only want to sell 100 metres at a time . I'm sure the gaffer would sell small lengths ,but just try and get past the arrogant twat on the  sales desk ..!

[Mr Pastry]

26 minutes ago, Christine said:

It used to be like Morgan ..wood .panel walls , old offices bakelite phones ..but they're on 

North Farm industrial site now and only want to sell 100 metres at a time . I'm sure the gaffer would sell small lengths ,but just try and get past the arrogant twat on the  sales desk ..!

I remember the old Baines place, it was wonderful.  Sad to hear they have gone down the industrial estate/arrogant sales twat route.  Hope it's not the beginning of the end, as it often seems to be for interesting small companies. 

[Christine]

Its big !  Rolls and rolls everywhere !

[martc]

5 hours ago, davocano said:

There's a tenuous motoring connection here; KT13 0QU is now the UK office of Japan Tobacco International and it's directly adjacent to Brooklands Museum.

Tobacco tin chat - Copes were from Liverpool; they were bought out by Gallahar back in 1952. Gallahars where, in turn, bought out by Japan Tobacco International in 2007; hence the postal address. Copes was merely a brand name by the time that tin was packed.

The tin carries an 'e' mark to show that the declared weight of product was within the tolerances of the appropriate EEC directive; 'e' marks were introduced in Jan 1976. The weight is in g only which, I think, places it between 1976 and the early 80's. The directive 71/354/EEC (from 1971, but applicable to the UK from 1973 when we joined) allowed only metric measures to be shown. However, due to public hostility in the UK and Ireland and the fact that many manufacturers (except it would seem Gallahars) openly flouted the law, directive  80/181/EEC from 1980 allowed both metric and imperial weights to be shown.

[vulgalour]

Today is too hot to do that much that's meaningful cosmetically so we decided to have a crack at the mechanical instead.  First stop was off to Halfords to get a suitable battery and oil, we expected to need to top everything up, so got enough to do that.  We knew the car would idle from a fresh fuel source, and we also knew that sometimes it wouldn't, so this would be a good opportunity to figure that out.  First job was to hook up the fuel supply, we're not running it for very long so we know we'll be safe on plain unleaded for testing purposes.

That was when we found sometimes the starter motor sticks, a tap with a metal pole got it going again and with more running and diagnostics, the starter motor behaved better, so we expect that just needs a basic clean up and a bit of maintenance.  Eventually, we decided to see if the car would run on the old 4 star in the tank, even though it looks like this.

The fuel coming through is clean, it's just really old and varnished.  The car does run on this, which surprised us, and meant we didn't have to have the jerry can balanced on the wing like that.  After a little while we found the car was firing up, idling, and then dropping one or two cylinders.  It didn't take long to discover the ignition leads are just rubbish.  In the past, someone has fitted new spark plugs but they've reused modern push fit type leads of a couple of different varieties.  Not only are the leads too long, they don't stay seated so as the car is idling the spark escapes.  To combat these we've ordered the parts to make up a new set of leads to the suitable length.  The two original style leads in the car fit better but the quality of them is such that they're not viable replacements.

Knowing that the car will run and idle, we then attempted to put it in gear just to see if we could, and while it made a clunk and tried to drive, it didn't actually proceed.   The car did rock forwards after the clunk, it was a lot like when an automatic gearbox is low on oil and it engages gears but can't actually move the car.  A check of the oil showed us that it was quite low, so we topped that up and went to try again but now the spark plugs simply weren't staying put and we couldn't get the car to idle for long enough, which was a bit disappointing.  One thing we did learn, happily, is that the car has oil pressure.  After idling for a fairly short period of time, the oil light went out.  Unfortunately the ignition light didn't, so it looks like the dynamo needs fixing, or a connection somewhere is dirty and needs cleaning.  The fuel guage works, and there's a third of a tank showing which again was quite surprising.

We did have all the exterior lights working, and we found the dome light was working too.  However, the dome light switch couldn't switch the light off, so we pulled the bulb out to prevent it overheating and causing problems.  In retaliation, the sidelights front and rear then stopped working.  At the front we got one of them to work again and learned that the sidelight assemblies are devilishly fiddly things.  The copper wire around the bulb holder appears to be completely normal and while the bulbs work fine, we could only get one of the sidelights to work again.  We'll need to go through the connectors and such to get to the bottom of this since all the lights were working on the day we viewed the car.

We were pleased to find where the starting handle actually lives, so reinstated that too.

The fresh air vent has been left open for now, hopefully it will allow the seal it sits against to dry out a bit so it's not so sticky.

Other half spotted the door latch for the driver's side was loose, so tightened up the screws and now the door shuts much better.  It still needs a little attention to the fit at the leading edge, though we're led to believe this is normal on cars of this type and can be adjusted fairly easily.

Another surprise came when we connected the new battery and the wipers were working.  Fortunately I'd had the good sense to lift the wiper arms free of the windscreen just in case, since there's no blades fitted.  What we don't know is what type of blade is required, it seems there's several different fittings and we don't know which one these are.

While I was on with other little jobs around the car, the other half got the Autosol out to see how the grille would come up and was quite pleased with how easily the surface corrosion disappeared from the centre bar.

It feels like a very rewarding car to work on.  We do have a shortlist of items from today's efforts, this list will likely grown

• Wiper blades
• ignition leads - ordered
• Door handle gaskets
• Rocker cover gasket
• Carburettor rebuild kit
• window winder escutcheon (driver's side front door)
• Full set of tyres, possibly inner tubes too
• Carpet set
• Pedal rubber seals
• Refurbish dynamo
• Refurbish starter motor
• Repair/replace wiring loom
• Repair/replace exhaust

[SiC]

According to a document someone linked here earlier in the thread, this engine has a compression ratio of 7:1. So probably would pretty much run on any old piss thrown in the tank! 

[vulgalour]

Yeah but even so, we didn't expect it to run on what is probably nearly 40 year old fuel.  We can probably do a Charles and run it on 'leftover wine' whatever that is.

[beko1987]

Marvellous! I bet a fistful of wire wool and a can of brake cleaner and an afternoon will see half those electrical gremlins fixed. The rest, fresh wire, solder, some nice crimps and heatshrink. 

Please carry on polishing the grille... Let it be proud! 

[vulgalour]

I don't like to feel like I've wasted my free time, so when it was too hot to move outside, I tackled the rear seat base inside and gave it the first leather feed.  The leather feels vastly improved and smells nice and some of the scuffs and scratches are now much reduced.

Then the temperature finally fell to something approaching reasonable and it became a little overcast.  In fact, the weather became ideal for getting a bit more of the bodywork done and all it took to finally tempt me back outdoors was a refreshing breeze.  Spent an enjoyable little while cutting through the oxidised paint by hand and actually getting some shine back to the paint.  For the front wing, I used some 400 grit sandpaper in a piece about the size of my palm and carefully worked away the roughest of the surface rust, revealing quite a lot of paint which has just about taken some shine.  I'm not expecting miracles with that wing, the paint is incredibly thin and seems to have been done well after the original paint that remains on the car.

The bonnet has become a nice display of before and after.  There's still a bit of fogging to work through on the polished section, a couple more passes should get it.

I'm really enjoying how this is coming together and brightening up.  Seeing all the layers of neglect, and use come through as the oxidisation is cleared away is really quite rewarding.  This is far more satisfying to me than getting the car resprayed.

Other half and I will keep plugging away at this and getting everything shipshape again.  I'm not much of a fan of doing the brightwork because it's fiddly, so it's nice that the other half likes doing that bit, we have a similar thing with the bodywork preservation which is very much my domain, while the mechanical stuff we share equal duties on.  It's felt thoroughly wholesome to work together on this, it's done us a lot of good to have something to do while we wait for life to return to something more like normal.

[motorpunk]

That looks so rewarding. Thanks for sharing the pics, too.

[vulgalour]

What's that you say, eBay?  I won an item and need to pay for it?

Those will fill the holes in the bumper infill panel quite nicely, won't they?  Can't believe I got them for just £16 (plus postage).  I believe this is a driving light and a fog light, so a proper pair, they look about the right age and, being Marchal, are just about the right level of posh for the Lanchester.  Here's hoping they survive being posted.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Have you tried the kitchen foil and coke method on the chromework? I've done it on Raleigh Burner chrome rims and it's surprisingly effective. 

[Zelandeth]

Love that dash, hope we'll see that in the Dash at Night thread in due course...

[PhilA]

Just noticed this doesn't have a pressurized cooling system.

One less thing to go wrong then

[Timewaster]

That is indeed a lovely thing and happily it has found a suitable home. 

Not something I would want to own but nevertheless lovely. 

[St.Jude]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:19 AM, Kowalski said:

Nah,plop an XUD in it. Nice and simple. Anyone can fix that

But it weighs more than the car!

[lesapandre]

13 hours ago, vulgalour said:

I don't like to feel like I've wasted my free time, so when it was too hot to move outside, I tackled the rear seat base inside and gave it the first leather feed.  The leather feels vastly improved and smells nice and some of the scuffs and scratches are now much reduced.

Then the temperature finally fell to something approaching reasonable and it became a little overcast.  In fact, the weather became ideal for getting a bit more of the bodywork done and all it took to finally tempt me back outdoors was a refreshing breeze.  Spent an enjoyable little while cutting through the oxidised paint by hand and actually getting some shine back to the paint.  For the front wing, I used some 400 grit sandpaper in a piece about the size of my palm and carefully worked away the roughest of the surface rust, revealing quite a lot of paint which has just about taken some shine.  I'm not expecting miracles with that wing, the paint is incredibly thin and seems to have been done well after the original paint that remains on the car.

The bonnet has become a nice display of before and after.  There's still a bit of fogging to work through on the polished section, a couple more passes should get it.

I'm really enjoying how this is coming together and brightening up.  Seeing all the layers of neglect, and use come through as the oxidisation is cleared away is really quite rewarding.  This is far more satisfying to me than getting the car resprayed.

Other half and I will keep plugging away at this and getting everything shipshape again.  I'm not much of a fan of doing the brightwork because it's fiddly, so it's nice that the other half likes doing that bit, we have a similar thing with the bodywork preservation which is very much my domain, while the mechanical stuff we share equal duties on.  It's felt thoroughly wholesome to work together on this, it's done us a lot of good to have something to do while we wait for life to return to something more like normal.

Wipers and wiper arms - you may be able to source some A30/35 type. Originally these had non-sprung wipers fitted but something A30 should fit. Great job on the paintwork. Such an original old car - you are doing such a great job or repair and conserve rather than renew. Looking forward to seeing it on the road. Pretty active owners club - if there are problems with the g/b I am sure there is lots of help. 

Does it have semaphore indicators? When was it last actually on the road?

[vulgalour]

2 hours ago, sgtberbatov said:

But it weighs more than the car!

Dunno about that, I reckon an XUD lump is a bit easier to push

[vulgalour]

@Zelandeth Dash at night photo is a must, I'll try and remember to get one tonight.

@lesapandre Ran out of tax in 1984 so we assume that's when it was last on the road.  It does indeed have semaphores, and they work!  Been informed it's on the rubber peg type wipers and it's best to get them from a chandler than eBay, which is handy since we live near quite a few boat places.

@Dick Van Diesel We've been using Autosol which is doing a good job so far.  Trouble is, much of the chrome is beyond the old kitchen foil trick, some of the chrome on the bumpers has lifted off and looks a bit like kitchen foil now, and the other areas are pitted from age.

[lesapandre]

Wilson Pre-Select gearbox manual here to view:

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/library/wilsonpreselector.htm

Lubrication chart:

 

[vulgalour]

This darling little thing has just passed me a very useful item, haven't you dear?

"Yes"

Very good.  Let's see what that is then.

Spiffing!

[PhilA]

4 hours ago, vulgalour said:

@Zelandeth Dash at night photo is a must, I'll try and remember to get one tonight.

@lesapandre Ran out of tax in 1984 so we assume that's when it was last on the road.  It does indeed have semaphores, and they work!  Been informed it's on the rubber peg type wipers and it's best to get them from a chandler than eBay, which is handy since we live near quite a few boat places.

@Dick Van Diesel We've been using Autosol which is doing a good job so far.  Trouble is, much of the chrome is beyond the old kitchen foil trick, some of the chrome on the bumpers has lifted off and looks a bit like kitchen foil now, and the other areas are pitted from age.

Sounds like my chrome- if it's gone through the nickel to the steel, I found a fine cup-style wire brush in my Dremel did the least damage to the remaining good plating surrounding the corrosion, shine the steel up and just keep it waxed until I can afford to get the chrome redone.

[beko1987]

5 hours ago, lesapandre said:

Wilson Pre-Select gearbox manual here to view:

https://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/library/wilsonpreselector.htm

Lubrication chart:

 

Every 1000 miles! I couldn't imagine doing that nowadays! That's 2 weeks of commuting for me (well, was...) 

[vulgalour]

I have spent another couple of hours on this today.  Acquired some black T-cut to use after the regular plain T-cut and get rid of the white-ish marks wherever there was texture or panel edges.  My first job was to spend some more time with the sandpaper smoothing the worst of the surface rust off that front wing.  It revealed some excellent layers and texture, and even some paint that almost held a shine.

I managed to get the wing as far as looking a little shinier than the flat paint on the other side.

A little bit more time and I had the other wing done, a significant transformation.

When you're doing this sort of job, it can sometimes be a bit difficult to remind yourself just how much you've done.  I like to leave an area in the middle of refinished areas if I can, so I have something to come back to for a sense of achievement and to keep myself on target with progress.  It also makes for excellent before and after photographs.

After about an hour and a half's graft, I had both front wings, the bonnet, the infill panel behind the bumper, and both engine side panels done.  I was giving it three or four passes with regular T-cut until the fogging was gone as much as possible, and then finishing with one or two passes of black T-cut which really helps deepen the colour and draws the eye away from the worst of the scratches.  Some of the scratches on the panels are really very bad, I'm not sure what the goal was by whoever was doing it.  Wherever the original paint has survived it takes a shine very quickly and is a joy to work with.

Another half an hour or so and I had almost a quarter of the roof done.  Unfortunately there's not a lot of space in the garage and even less light, so I couldn't go further than this.  I also did what I could reach of the scuttle.

Now we really just have to wait for the spark plugs to arrive so that we can try and drive the car.  Partner and I do not want to push this car again unless we absolutely have to,  Made a start cleaning the engine bay too, didn't get very far thanks to the heat.  There has been some rewiring, it's not terrible on the face of things, it just doesn't look great.  We assume this had been either rotted original wiring, or mouse damage, or both.  Either way, it reinforces our desire to rewire the car.

There's some nice plates on the bulkhead.

The bonnet release is the bonnet mascot on this car.  The front stud/bolt is missing entirely so we'll need to replace that.

All in all, a satisfying few days of work.  The only other item of note is that there are signs the car had a roof rack fitted at some point, dimples and wear on the gutters right where you'd expect clamps to be.  It's very unlikely we'll fit a roof rack to the car again ourselves.